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Gareth Emery: 95% of Trance is Cheesy Bollocks (pg. 7)
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| CHRles |
I kinda hate how people always like to bash Trance when compared to other genres. I listen and enjoy a lot of genres, but many times get the feeling that the only producers who put some time and effort into their productions are the Trance and Progressive folks.
How often do you hear Drum N Bass/Jungle producers push things forward? A lot of times it's the same sounding MC with the same sounding beats, at the same exact speeds with the same basslines.
House music? The most successful House records are usually way more commercial sounding then Trance. Take Eric Prydz "Call On Me", which is a silly 15 second loop sampling a POP tune by Stevie Winwood from the 80s. Yeah, like that's never been done before...
Then you've got the whole Electro House sound, which can be fun, but they all try to use the same minimalistic melodic sounds.
So this is supposed to be more clever and original then what's going on in the Trance camp? These fans who only listen to Funky House, Schranz, or Nu Skool Breaks really think they're listening to anything more intelligent or mind blowing? They're usually not, but a lot of the Trance, House, or Breaks mafia are still coming out with enjoyable product, even if it is predictable to a degree.
I mean it's still better then hearing a so called Rap hit like "Here We Go" by Trina, one of the worst female rappers of alltime. She just sounds like a pissed off hooker (LOL), and not like someone you'd put in the same category as Lauryn Hill or Salt N Pepa.
Back to the subject at hand, I think when GTR made that comment was perhaps after hearing so many truly bad records that month. There are hundreds of Trance records that flood the market every week, and famous producers like him probably also get a lot of demos the rest of us are luckily never exposed to. So while, for example, Armin tries to cherry pick about 5-10 new songs to play on ASOT every week (songs which fit his sound, and sound at least decent to him), he probably has to endure countless hours of truly boring/bad/extremely amateur Trance in the process.
just my 2.5 cents on the subject. |
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| SYSTEM-J |
| quote: | Originally posted by CHRles
How often do you hear Drum N Bass/Jungle producers push things forward? A lot of times it's the same sounding MC with the same sounding beats, at the same exact speeds with the same basslines. |
There was a pretty big deebee album out in 2005 by some guys who I can't quite remember the name of... pretty unique as far as drum 'n bass goes. |
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| MichaelBoogerd! |
| quote: | Originally posted by CHRles
Armin... probably has to endure countless hours of truly boring/bad/extremely amateur Trance in the process.
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Holy! :eyes:
You just indirectly solved the mystery of Armin's hair loss! |
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| Spirit5 |
| quote: | Originally posted by thoughtlessjex
Except that escapism doesn't mean trance. You're confusing squares and rectangles here; trance is escapism, but the converse is not a tautology. Just because trance and altered moods are both escapist doesn't mean they're the same thing.
You're confusing trance with elevation. Trance is not an inherently elevated state. On the contrary, it is very subdued and meditative. I hear what you're saying about an ethereal atmosphere, but very little epic trance goes for that, and the tracks that do rarely maintain it. Rather, most go for an angelic atmosphere, an elevated atmosphere. It's active, adrenaline pumping, heightened brain activity music. That's all well and good, but it's not trance, because trance is rather a suspension of brain activity. Trance is an extended moment of clarity, when there is nothing in your mind but the sound. This is different from being in a higher world, this is when the music is the world.
You seem to think I'm talking about psy trance. I'm talking about trance. Psy trance is about the trips, not about the meditativeness, although most real trance these days tends to come from psy, because psy tends to lend itself more to hypnotic rhythms and melodies as opposed to the straightforwardness of melodic trance. There are uplifting trancers that come near achieving this state, but they generally screw it up by getting all overbearing and generic. (Ligaya could have changed trance for the better if it weren't for the ing breakdown and melody.)
I don't see trance as LSD. The entranced state seems more conducive to dissociatives like ketamine to me. With LSD, your perception of the world around you is altered, with ecstacy, you are elevated to a heightened awareness of the world you inhabit, but a dissociative changes the world itself.
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I get the impression that you and I are working from different definitions of "euphoric" if you're calling Seven Ways euphoric. :D
Like I said, though, it's possible to mix the euphoric with the trancy, it's just that most euphorica trance producers don't even try. Some can totally do it, but instead sell out by forcing yet another predictable melody on the masses.
Personally, I consider BT - Nectar to be a perfect example of what can be done to make euphoric trance trancey. |
I understand what your saying. Maybe I am not using the right words to express this, but I mean there are plenty of ethereal trance tunes, and most of what I consider ethereal seems to come from the epic and more melodic variety, then the really rhythmic and hypnotic ones. When I think "ethereal" i think escapism, when I think trance, I think "elevated moods" "heightened state of awareness" and feelings of being beyond oneself. The meditative aspect is just one aspect of it, because I find plenty in both catagories that are meditative yet still quite energetic. If you have listened to the tunes "3579 KM", "Lullaby" and "Astra" by Kalafut & Fygle, those tunes are quite "ethereal" and border on being epic, yet they aren't the same as the older stuff. I definitely see them as "Trancey" and they are quite meditative. I dunno what epic trance your talking about but quite a few are "ethereal", and ethereal typically means other worldly. I don't think there is that much of a difference from the word "Angelic" to the word "Ethereal" as angels and heaven is considered "ethereal", alot of times when peopel refer to things as "Ethereal" they are talking about heaven, other planes of existence, angels, fairies etc
I'm not that familiar with psy music, but from what i've heard of it, it seems to rely a lot on a pulsating bass, fast rhythms/percussion and a "hypnotic" atmosphere. That is how I have percieved it. I percieve epic trance, as i've said, as "Angelic" and "Ethereal", sometimes they start off this way and don't maintain, other times they don't start off this way and then the atmosphere changes once the tune progresses and there is a breakdown. I know there is real "trance" music out there, music designed just for meditation, for trance, plenty of chanting, and percussion is used, and this dates back almost a million or so years. One of the most basic, oldest forms of music is "trance", as drumming was used to in a sense, communicate with the gods and allow tribal peoples to go beyond oneself and in a sense, communicate with a higher power, have an altered state of consciousness. This seems to have been brought over into a good majority of trance music, but more so from in the techno i've heard and more tribal like house/trance (acid house, hard house, lots of progressive house, various forms of the hard and minimialist techno), as that stuff seems to be rely more on being hypnotic and percussive, rather than trying to create an "ethereal" or "angelic" atmosphere as much trance music does. I mean maybe you've been into trance longer than I have, because I got into trance around 1998, and many of the trance I listened to was a mixture of hypnotic stuff and euphoric stuff.
Euphoria is a heightened mood, and this is what alot of trance does, and part of a "trance" is a feeling of euphoria. Maybe that particular tune I shouldn't have put, but there's plenty of PvD releases that are euphoric and hypnotic. I think trance shouldn't just mean a narrow dictionary definition of it, rather it should include many sounds that come together to create BOTH a hypnotic AND an ethereal/angelic atmosphere. I will say again I Feel that it should have both, and I sometimes think that too many are two one way or the other, so it would be nice to have a middle ground, but we should NOT discredit everything that doesn't have that super meditative or subdued feel as not trance, as a lot of trance is dance music and can you really "meditate" to trance?
Another thing, why get rid of the melody and breakdown? Less breakdowns sure, but melodies are a part of the foundation to a lot of trance music over the years, and music in general, particularly western music (as I said the more melodic trance was made popular and created not in the east or from tribal peoples, but from western producers in Europe). Thats what has made this music popular. I mean It seems like you want trance to be so basic, just percussive, but thats the harder techno/trance from my understanding. I am not that familiar with techno, but I can tell you that from what i've heard, that relies not on melodies but on rhythm for something to be hypnotic and dancey. Trance has typically relied on melodies for it's progression, and this has pretty much differentiated itself from techno over the years. I don't know about the early trance, but I know what it progressed into, and that was when it was at it's peak. Like i've said, and i'll say it over, I would personally settle for both the hypnotic stuff and the euphoric stuff, as long as both can come together in a clean and quality package that is still emotional, angelic, ethereal, but also has that hypnotic quality that makes it fundamentally trance. I really don't think that many people listen to trance so litereally they think "oh i'll get put into a trance by listening to this 'trance' music" rather it is the atmosphere, the feeling, the sense of euphoria, which is 'trance-like' or feelings captured while in "trance" states, but I don't think a lot of the popular, modern trance can be taken so literally as this text book definition of "trance" as just subdued and meditative. |
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| isoterra |
| god forbid Spirit5 & Zombie0915 ever get into a heated debate :stongue: :p |
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| Spirit5 |
| quote: | Originally posted by isoterra
god forbid Spirit5 & Zombie0915 ever get into a heated debate :stongue: :p |
We're blood brothers ;) |
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| Cobalt |
| quote: | Originally posted by isoterra
god forbid Spirit5 & Zombie0915 ever get into a heated debate :stongue: :p |
Wow. :wtf: |
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| Lunar Phase 7 |
| quote: | Originally posted by CHRles
I kinda hate how people always like to bash Trance when compared to other genres. I listen and enjoy a lot of genres, but many times get the feeling that the only producers who put some time and effort into their productions are the Trance and Progressive folks.
How often do you hear Drum N Bass/Jungle producers push things forward? A lot of times it's the same sounding MC with the same sounding beats, at the same exact speeds with the same basslines.
House music? The most successful House records are usually way more commercial sounding then Trance. Take Eric Prydz "Call On Me", which is a silly 15 second loop sampling a POP tune by Stevie Winwood from the 80s. Yeah, like that's never been done before...
Then you've got the whole Electro House sound, which can be fun, but they all try to use the same minimalistic melodic sounds.
So this is supposed to be more clever and original then what's going on in the Trance camp? These fans who only listen to Funky House, Schranz, or Nu Skool Breaks really think they're listening to anything more intelligent or mind blowing? They're usually not, but a lot of the Trance, House, or Breaks mafia are still coming out with enjoyable product, even if it is predictable to a degree.
I mean it's still better then hearing a so called Rap hit like "Here We Go" by Trina, one of the worst female rappers of alltime. She just sounds like a pissed off hooker (LOL), and not like someone you'd put in the same category as Lauryn Hill or Salt N Pepa.
Back to the subject at hand, I think when GTR made that comment was perhaps after hearing so many truly bad records that month. There are hundreds of Trance records that flood the market every week, and famous producers like him probably also get a lot of demos the rest of us are luckily never exposed to. So while, for example, Armin tries to cherry pick about 5-10 new songs to play on ASOT every week (songs which fit his sound, and sound at least decent to him), he probably has to endure countless hours of truly boring/bad/extremely amateur Trance in the process.
just my 2.5 cents on the subject. |
Your 2.5 Cents are 100 PERcent Correct :D
Totally Agree With You |
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| Clyde77 |
^^ amen, most people don't know what they're talking about..
hush, dont bash |
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| DJ Intrigue |
| quote: | Originally posted by isoterra
god forbid Spirit5 & Zombie0915 ever get into a heated debate :stongue: :p |
That's classic.:p Although, I wouldn't necessarily say "a heated debate", but something along the lines of "a deep and philisophical, yet long-lasting exchange of words meant to reminisce over the divine spirituality and the oh-so heavenly meditative feelings that make up this vivacious music known as trance."
That was harsh, I know, but I just couldn't resist on this one, plus I'm feeling a bit sarcastic today.:D |
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| Spirit5 |
| quote: | Originally posted by DJ Intrigue
That's classic.:p Although, I wouldn't necessarily say "a heated debate", but something along the lines of "a deep and philisophical, yet long-lasting exchange of words meant to reminisce over the divine spirituality and the oh-so heavenly meditative feelings that make up this vivacious music known as trance."
That was harsh, I know, but I just couldn't resist on this one, plus I'm feeling a bit sarcastic today.:D |
I wouldn't have put "philosophy" in my profile if I didn't actually think philosophically, which I do when it comes to this music and to life . I'm a loser with no life...not afraid to say that (but not one of those D&D, sci fi, or computer nerds). But don't worry, I'm not some academic or intellectual either (I don't read that much, but just certain books...), more like a dreamer, thinker, writer, rambler, someone that goes on and on about things i'm passionate about. Don't get me started about politics or religion/spirituality, i'll drive ya crazy! part of the reason I try to stay out of the political debate forum on here...and yeah I do equate my music with spirituality, but I don't think of it in the hippish type of way. Not a hippie, just a dreamer...dream dream dream my way through the utter boredom of life....particularly community college life, as there's nuttin' to do around here till I move out on my own and go to a university (not for another year), but I think i've been this way since I was little, but I just have more time on my hands to contemplate/experience the "heavenly meditative feelings that make up this vivacious music known as trance." Yeah again i'm a looooooser with no life! :D |
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| Spirit5 |
| Ok you all can just conclude i'm weird, i'm fine with that. I've always been weird, never have exactly "fit in" with the crowd, but at the same time I was never one of those who sat in the corner and talked to no one and was anti-social, quite the contrary. Just someone who thinks to much, and yeah it sometimes drives other people and it drives me sometimes crazy too! |
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