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We are going into war!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :( (pg. 16)
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| Some One |
Jeez can u people stop with teh damn essays, it was ok at first, but now there is too much information, and ur getting into the smallest details.
basically, if BOTH sides would of wanted PEACE, there would of been peace for a long time, but someone doesnt like to have his country named "Israel" (hint hint arafat) so he sends his Fatah Al-Aqsa brigates to blow themselfs up thinking it would acheive something, and that something is the destruction of his compound and the entire west bank (thats what happens when u provoke a "class bully"
so now he and his people is going to suffer the conciquences of his actions, and PLEASE dont tell me he is not responcible, maybe not directly, but he is 10000% responcible IN-directly.
If Arafat wanted peace, israeli and palestinians would of been living in peace now, and dont say that israel doesnt want peace, because every israeli leader has been trying to accomplish something, and what happend was more palestinians blowing themselfs up. |
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| a_adl |
| WHAT THE U R TALKING ABOUT PPL U THINK PALESTINE IS KILLING ISRAEL'S SOLDIERS? R U CRAZY ISRAEL IS KILLING PPL LIKE HELL THERE SO THEY DESERVE THE SUICIDE BOMBERS IM EGYPTIAN AND I HATE WHAT IS HAPPENEING AND ISREAL DESRVE IT AND IF I HAD THE CHANCE TO GO AND FIGHT ILL KILL AS MANY SOLDIERS FROM ISRAEL AS POSSIBLE...PPL U RECIVE THE WRONG INFO. U MUST GET THE RIGHT STORY 1ST AND THEN COME AND SAY WHO IS WRONG... |
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| Yoepus |
| quote: | Originally posted by evil_bastard
Yoepus, just because a man has been democratically elected it does not clear his name.
Israel has consistently elected right wing nationalist ex generals.
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Will of the people, they had also consistently elected left wing liberalist ex generals, whats your point?
| quote: | Secondly, you counter the evidence I put forward with "they are an army under a democracy".
This does not clear their name. |
Yes, this and the fact that investigations are made public to Israelis citizens, if you were one you could order such records throught the freedom of informaiton act. Forgive me if they do not publish the name of the soliders and their rank for all the world to see in English on their web site. You realize this would further endanger their own lives even after they have served their time.
| quote: | | I'd still like you to make reference to the allegations from the Israeli Centre for Human Rights. Not a single person has responded to these extremely serious allegations. |
Again I have made reference, so go back and re-read my post.
I don't understand why you are critizing those 'civilians' who were shot when the circumstances they were shot in are stated directly by this center. So I don't understand what is the problem here? I see no problem in attacking an armed militant. I do not see an investigation launched for every Taliban or Al Queda person who wears a civilian uniform and is killed in battle, why is the world not outraged by this?
| quote: | | They haven't told me lies, they've just shot children, newscrews, peace protestors. I do not trust these men. |
I do, they defend the lives of Israelis. Again I will state you this questions: Who stages a peace protest in the middle of the scene of war? Why do the newscres violates direct orders from the military (esepcially when they follow to the word what the US policies are in other battle fields, they are hypocrates if you agree with the Israeli policies or not)? Why do mothers let their children play with guns in the scene of battle?
| quote: | | This is all well and good on paper, but the Israeli Centre for Human Rights seem to think it's a heap of . Like you said yourself earlier, why would any Army want to shot at the press? Something to hide? If British troops shot at the press I can tell you now that it would be a national outrage. Same in America. That this hasn't even moved you shows the state of Israeli democracy. What's the point in freedom of press if you refuse to accept the wording of Kofi Annan of the Israeli Centre for Human Rights? |
All I ask is that Israel be inspected and looked upon with the same standards as the US army and other democractic standing armies or the world. I will not argue their decission regarding press access, as I think this has little relevance. What I will argue is the one sided critism and voice of concern and disobeyance of the media of such orders when they violate these orders and are shot upon, but never violate these orders in other conflicts involoving democratic standing armies (Kosovo, Balkans, Gulf War, Afghanistan and so on..).
| quote: | | Sorry but I accept none of this purely on your say-so. I searched the net, and searched their site. Nowhere did I see that any killings had been investigated. |
It is in hebrew, again view statement above... you can ask other Israelis, or ask the army itself if they make this information available to their public.
| quote: | | You don't seem to get the concept of investigations. When an "armed" man is killed, it means the soldiers say he was armed. |
There should be hundreds and thousands of investigations then in Afghanistan. The militants there do not wear uniforms again but civilian clothing.. how do we know they were 'really armed'? Why is their no world out ry for this. Come on, you and I both know that when they say he is armed, hes armed.. the gun found near his body proves this (Palestinians use primarly AK47, Israel does not use these).
| quote: | | Without an investigation we just have to hope that these same soldiers who shoot at British peace protestors and news crews are telling the truth (I have seen the footage on the news first hand, ask anyone else from the UK if you think I'm making this up). |
I just saw your footage. Now you might think I am a bloodthirsty extremist by saying this, but I will have to assue you I am not, but I do not see anything wrong or any violations with the Israelis in the footage you seen.
First, we do not know if they were 'live' ammo shot at the crowd, they assume this. Second, these were warning shot, no one was killed. If you look at the footage you can see them aim their shots to the ground infront of the protestors.. a 'warning shot' by all definitions, why did the crowd not disperse then? The camera crew also recieved warning shots, and were indicated by them not to use their vehicle (again, you have to understand this, they would not let you enter the vechile as they do not know what is in it, be it just tv stuff, bombs, guns, or explosives). They forced the camera crews to flee therefore on foot.
We also have to remember that all of these people understood the risk of violating the curfews and restriction, and organized a mass gather dispite this. Therefore you should not be shocked that they were caught for these violations.
They say 6 were injured, they don't say if it was caused because they fell on the floor, or they were shot at and the bullets hit them. Again they do not know if the bullets were rubber or not either. For god sake man this is a war scene, this is not the middle of time square.
| quote: | | If you don't do this, you can only ever hope to catch them red handed. But given the evidence that Israeli authorities turn a blind eye to such incidents, it's obvious why you're under the illusion this is "rare". |
What evidence?? They do investigate these things, more extensively the more severe the acusations.
| quote: | | There's no need for me to prove Palestinian terrorism, because we all agree it happens. |
You miss the point, I discredit the crediability of these organizations with this argument, I did not argue about how bad Palestinian terrorism, just that these organizations are biased by the fact that they do not report violations from both sides fairly.
| quote: | | Where there is dispute is the level of wrongdoing committed by Israel. But every time I try to bring this up or provide sources, we get back onto Arafat and his boys. How convenient. |
Again you misunderstand, read above pargagraph. I have admitted Israel commits violations, no doubt about this. But I am also saying they are as restraint or even more as every other Western Democractic Standing Army in this world. If you counter thiis, then you must realize this would be the first such army in mordern history that does not meet such standards.
| quote: | | You may be able to prove Arafat's a bastard, but that doesn't clear the IDF of very serious allegations made by Israeli authorities. Both sides will end up discussing peace anyway, it's just a matter of how many thousand innocents will die before that happens. |
What allegations, by what Israeli authorities? All you had sent me are the links of a biased Israeli run web site that basis it's conclusions on 'secret documents'.
| quote: | | I leave you with a letter sent to the BBC, which can be viewed here: |
From the same Palestinian population of which support according to recent polls by 89% majority the acts of Suicide Bombers. I'd take all their lies... err statements, with a grain of salt. I heard no Israelis destroy any hospital, mosque, and churchs for examples, have you? If they have lied in this why do you think the rest is true? (altough I will admit some is, again most ins't although).
Think about it some.
Yoepus
PLAGIARIZE, v. To take the thought or style of another writer whom one has never, never read. |
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| Yoepus |
| quote: | Originally posted by evil_bastard
When those Canadian Airborne peacekeepers in Somalia in 1993 were caught torturing and burning a Somali boy, the ENTIRE airborne division of the Canadian Army was DISBANDED.
If the Israelis used the same discipline as the Canadians, the IDF probably wouldn't have any front line units left! |
This type of statement proves for me your desire not to change and pre-determined mis-conceptions about the Israeli Army. You cleary have no basis for this claim, or will to see this change.
For example, try and tell me when the Israeli army ever torutred and burned a Palestinian boy. I can tell you never.
I'm done arguing with you on this point with such blant ignorant iciteful statements and stupidity.
Yoepus
An economist is an expert who will know tomorrow why the things he predicted yesterday didn't happen today. |
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| Yoepus |
| quote: | Originally posted by tenor
yoepus:
how can you know there are no civilian deaths yet? There are plenty of dead bodies on the street of Ramallah, and not even medical personnel are allowed to go and get them off the street.. Oh yah, I also heard that a christian priest died in bethlehem, but have only seen it in indymedia, not mainstream media..
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Firstly the death of the Chrisitian priest was a rumor and disproved. This is why the 'mainstream media' did not report it (altought I heard them report it but say it was unconfirmed.. and indeed proved untrue). I guess you get all your news staight up from the electronicintifada or something eh?
How can you say that because there are plenty of dead bodies on the street of Ramallah they are all civilians? Are you willing to claim that every single Palestinian is a civilian?
I agree Palestinians have died, but only militants in this recent round. Again turn the tables and innocent Israelis civilians have been killed in this recent round.
Palestinian civilians have died durning this time I am sure, perhaps from heart attack or old age, or disease. It is a far stretch of the imagination though to say Israelis killed them, and then did so.
Second point, why would medical personel need to remove dead bodies off the street... This is false and they have. Have you not heard of the 'over flowing' morgue in the Ramallah hospital?
Second point on Sharon, again looks like you only reference one source the electronic intifada... 'straight from the Palestinian propoganda view point'. But the counter this is first; Sharon did resign after Leabonon due to the incident and never took up another military position since -he went into politics. Second, why is the world remembered of these things now? They could have done away with him 50, 20, 10 years ago. Thridly, it is improper for an international court of war to prosecute only one side for war crimes when indeed war crimes were committed by all sides.
Yoepus
Money is better than poverty, if only for financial reasons. |
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| a_adl |
Look here and ull understand
ppl u have the wrong idea about palestine
hey israel guy think 1st about what u r saying and then talk about it ok cheers |
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| tenor |
| quote: | | Firstly the death of the Chrisitian priest was a rumor and disproved. This is why the 'mainstream media' did not report it (altought I heard them report it but say it was unconfirmed.. and indeed proved untrue). I guess you get all your news staight up from the electronicintifada or something eh? |
Can you read? Do you understand what you read? I said i got it from indymedia, which is an international activist network, and its got nothing to do with electronicintifada (which i've never heard of). they report news that dont get mainstream press attention. i also know that sometimes they have false news, and that is why i mentioned it.
| quote: | | How can you say that because there are plenty of dead bodies on the street of Ramallah they are all civilians? Are you willing to claim that every single Palestinian is a civilian? |
Can you read? Do you understand what you read? I didnt say that they are all civilians. I just pointed out that there are plenty of dead people that even the medical people havent been able to get to yet - thus, we dont know their identity. I'd guess there are militant extremists and civilians dead there.
| quote: | | Second point, why would medical personel need to remove dead bodies off the street... This is false and they have. Have you not heard of the 'over flowing' morgue in the Ramallah hospital? |
Why? Would you like to have your street littered with dead bodies?
| quote: | | Second point on Sharon, again looks like you only reference one source the electronic intifada... 'straight from the Palestinian propoganda view point'. |
No, my source is Counterpoint. (look it up) Are you saying that Sharon did not do those things? That he did not lead Unit 101? That he was not in charge of the Lebanon operation? (sidenote: I guess Israel that operation was defending too?) That he did not order bulldozers into that camp near Gaza?
| quote: | But the counter this is first; Sharon did resign after Leabonon due to the incident and never took up another military position since -he went into politics.[QUOTE]
During that incident, he was the defense minister. He gave up his position (in FEBRUARY), but stayed in the cabinet as a 'minister without a briefcase'.
[QUOTE]Second, why is the world remembered of these things now? They could have done away with him 50, 20, 10 years ago. Thridly, it is improper for an international court of war to prosecute only one side for war crimes when indeed war crimes were committed by all sides. |
Do you think Israel would have deported a minister in their government? Please. |
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| evil_bastard |
| quote: | Originally posted by Yoepus
Will of the people, they had also consistently elected left wing liberalist ex generals, whats your point? |
I think the question is what's your point.
Saying Sharon is a democratically elected leader proves what exactly?
| quote: | | Yes, this and the fact that investigations are made public to Israelis citizens, if you were one you could order such records throught the freedom of informaiton act. |
So you keep saying, but it's not entirely representative of the facts now, is it?
Why don't you go along, with the list I gave you earlier to the IDF, and say "I'd like to see the records from the investigations into these killings of "armed" or "escaping" refugees. They will tell you that these investigations were never conducted, thus these records do not exist.
Here is my challenge to you: Find these investigatons, or the records of such, or even evidence they ever even happened.
If you come whinging to me saying "I've searched everywhere, it's too hard" then it's obviously not "freedom of information" cos you can't bloody find it!
| quote: | | Forgive me if they do not publish the name of the soliders and their rank for all the world to see in English on their web site. You realize this would further endanger their own lives even after they have served their time. |
They don't publish anything. All they say is we killed these soldiers, they were firing at us, honest!
| quote: | Again I have made reference, so go back and re-read my post.
I don't understand why you are critizing those 'civilians' who were shot when the circumstances they were shot in are stated directly by this center. |
Because I grew up in a country where soldiers' versions of events are not accepted hands down as the gospel truth without question. Where deemed necessary, instances of shoot-outs involving civiians in the vicinity are investigated. I've searched and searched and those killings I mentioned, which involved civilian casualties, were not investigated.
| quote: | | So I don't understand what is the problem here? I see no problem in attacking an armed militant. |
The problem is I have no evidence, of even the smallest kind, that these people were armed. Oh but of course they were, our boys on the front line said so! Just don't try and interview them about it for the news, they'll shoot you.
| quote: | | I do not see an investigation launched for every Taliban or Al Queda person who wears a civilian uniform and is killed in battle, why is the world not outraged by this? |
Shootouts involving British troops are being investigated right now. The troops who fired at the taxi have been flown home. As for the American bombing of civilians, I was pretty outraged as were much of the rest of the world. Didn't you see the protests in America? The weeks of headlines? The hundreds of journalists protesting against this? Where were you during all of this? One American journalist estimated that the civilian Afghan death toll has far exceeded that of Sept 11.
Secondly, the situations are not comparable. You may be at war now, but a few weeks ago it was just the same old border shoot outs. What's been happening in Afghanistan is a war for territory. What's been happening in Israel is stationary soldiers firing at people.
| quote: | | I do, they defend the lives of Israelis. Again I will state you this questions: Who stages a peace protest in the middle of the scene of war? Why do the newscres violates direct orders from the military (esepcially when they follow to the word what the US policies are in other battle fields, they are hypocrates if you agree with the Israeli policies or not)? Why do mothers let their children play with guns in the scene of battle? |
Have you watched the video I posted? Seemed pretty quiet in Bethlehem to be honest. Until the peace protestors came.
Why stage a peace protest? Possibly it has something to do with people who give a .
You're trying to change the issue, but answer me this:
Will you admit those Israeli troops were bang out of order?
Will you admit they were violating UN resolutions and Rules of Engagement?
| quote: | | All I ask is that Israel be inspected and looked upon with the same standards as the US army and other democractic standing armies or the world. I will not argue their decission regarding press access, as I think this has little relevance. What I will argue is the one sided critism and voice of concern and disobeyance of the media of such orders when they violate these orders and are shot upon, but never violate these orders in other conflicts involoving democratic standing armies (Kosovo, Balkans, Gulf War, Afghanistan and so on..). |
The peace protestors were within their legal right to do so. It is those tanks which are breaching a UN resolution, and breaching international law by firing at civilian crowds and injuring civilians.
I'd like to excercise my right to Freedom of Information, so I'll keep my eyes peeled for an investigation into the conduct of those soldiers.
Unlike you, I see little chance of that happening.
| quote: | | It is in hebrew, again view statement above... you can ask other Israelis, or ask the army itself if they make this information available to their public. |
They don't. Unless you, or any other Israeli here, wishes to prove me wrong by finding evidence or investigation, or evidence of investigation, regarding the deaths I listed earlier.
| quote: | | There should be hundreds and thousands of investigations then in Afghanistan. The militants there do not wear uniforms again but civilian clothing.. how do we know they were 'really armed'? Why is their no world out ry for this. Come on, you and I both know that when they say he is armed, hes armed.. the gun found near his body proves this (Palestinians use primarly AK47, Israel does not use these). |
Every time a British soldier in Kabul has fired his weapon, he has been investigated. This has only occured twice to my knowledge.
As for front line fighting, the taliban are a recognised Army. If civilians were known to be in the area of fighting by commanders, and deaths occurred, an investigation would occur.
Noone says this method is perfect. It is indeed a sticky situation, since not everything can be investigated. But I am yet to find a SINGLE investigation regarding the IDF shootings in civilian locations.
| quote: | | I just saw your footage. Now you might think I am a bloodthirsty extremist by saying this, but I will have to assue you I am not, but I do not see anything wrong or any violations with the Israelis in the footage you seen. |
Despite the fact 9 people were injured for protesting against an illegal action?
| quote: | | First, we do not know if they were 'live' ammo shot at the crowd, they assume this. Second, these were warning shot, no one was killed. |
They have no right to fire a warning shot, according to international resolutions they should not even be there. These warning shots were fired within inches of the protestors, you can even see the bullet ricochet about 1-2 feet away from the BBC camer man.
| quote: | | If you look at the footage you can see them aim their shots to the ground infront of the protestors.. a 'warning shot' by all definitions, why did the crowd not disperse then? |
What!! The crowd ran away, the BBC newscrew put their hands in the air straight away?
This was not a warning shot. Warning shots are supposed to be fired in the air!! Not 6 inches in front of a crowd of civilians!
Also, how can a warning shot injure NINE people?
I counted over 30 bullets fired within a minute. That's quite a zealous 'warning shot'.
| quote: | The camera crew also recieved warning shots, and were indicated by them not to use their vehicle (again, you have to understand this, they would not let you enter the vechile as they do not know what is in it, be it just tv stuff, bombs, guns, or explosives). They forced the camera crews to flee therefore on foot.
We also have to remember that all of these people understood the risk of violating the curfews and restriction, and organized a mass gather dispite this. Therefore you should not be shocked that they were caught for these violations. |
The only people acting illegally were the Israeli gunmen who fired a 'warning shot' which managed to wound 9 people.
| quote: | | They say 6 were injured, they don't say if it was caused because they fell on the floor, or they were shot at and the bullets hit them. Again they do not know if the bullets were rubber or not either. For god sake man this is a war scene, this is not the middle of time square. |
They said they were injured from shrapnel wounds.
Are you accusing the BBC crew of deliberately decieving the public? I thought earlier on you were defending the sincerity of democratic press!
| quote: | | You miss the point, I discredit the crediability of these organizations with this argument, I did not argue about how bad Palestinian terrorism, just that these organizations are biased by the fact that they do not report violations from both sides fairly. |
Who has the least to gain from lying?:
a) Ariel Sharon and Israeli Cabinet Members?
b) The IDF and Israeli Police?
c) The Israeli Information Centre for Human Rights on the Occupied Territories?
I would say C, but you would seem to disagree.
| quote: | | Again you misunderstand, read above pargagraph. I have admitted Israel commits violations, no doubt about this. But I am also saying they are as restraint or even more as every other Western Democractic Standing Army in this world. If you counter thiis, then you must realize this would be the first such army in mordern history that does not meet such standards. |
What standards? Are you referring to the Geneva Land Warfare convention, or the general standard of Western Democractic Armies in behaving sensibly?
| quote: | | What allegations, by what Israeli authorities? All you had sent me are the links of a biased Israeli run web site that basis it's conclusions on 'secret documents'. |
They don't "base their conclusion" on that, they made a single reference. The rest of their comments, particularly those I quoted, could be verified by yourself by utilising your freedom to information.
Also, this may sound weird, but centres for human rights tend to be against human suffering! I sincerely doubt an Israeli Centre for Human Rights would be biased towards the Palestinians. And even if it was, would that not suggest something?
| quote: | From the same Palestinian population of which support according to recent polls by 89% majority the acts of Suicide Bombers. I'd take all their lies... err statements, with a grain of salt. I heard no Israelis destroy any hospital, mosque, and churchs for examples, have you? If they have lied in this why do you think the rest is true? (altough I will admit some is, again most ins't although).
Think about it some.
Yoepus
PLAGIARIZE, v. To take the thought or style of another writer whom one has never, never read. |
I do take it with a grain of salt. I take everything I read with a grain of salt, from both sides, because I recognise both sides have the capacity to bull. Granted, the Palestinians tell heaps of , but I'm also cautious of that which I hear from the Palestinian side.
In a conflict where both sides are committing attrocities, I find it hard to throw my support to either side, even if one side does seemingly commit less attrocities than the other. |
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| Yoepus |
| quote: | Originally posted by tenor
Can you read? Do you understand what you read? I said i got it from indymedia, which is an international activist network, and its got nothing to do with electronicintifada (which i've never heard of). they report news that dont get mainstream press attention. i also know that sometimes they have false news, and that is why i mentioned it. |
I read fairly well.
Perhaps however the mainstream media doesn't report these things for a reason. I sort of dismiss almost all articles when a site such as your little indy publishes things like:
| quote: | The Israeli government has launched a genocidal war against the Palestinians. It is aimed that decapitating the Palestinian Authority, killing thousands of protesters and ethnically cleans the West Bank and Gaza. The Israeli rulers have received a green light from the United States government to carry out this terrorist war. The U.S.
and its NATO allies meanwhile are keeping Afghanistan under the iron heel of occupation as they prepare a new war against Iraq. The League for the Fourth International issues an urgent call to defend the Palestinian people against the Zionist “final solution”! |
And refer to the IDF as the 'Occupation Forces'. Even the Electronicintifada is more balanced then this ridicilous joke of journalism.
Yoepus
An intelligence test sometimes shows a man how smart he would have been not to have taken it. |
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| cweb |
puh there's plenty of text since i posted my statement and i have not the time to read all, but of course i will answer to Eugene!
| quote: | Originally posted by Eugene
So are you condoning those suicide bombings, with your "apologetic" attitude? Violence against innocent civilians is NEVER justified. |
NOOOOOOOOOO! God dammit! I just sort of explain why these people use this kind of weapon, of course Im against that. bt: I dont see any differnece by Palestinian suicide bombing and "revelation" of the Israelis who put a whole village on fire and call that a fight againbst terror? comon, how narrow-minded are you (this was not towards Eugene btw, it was towards Sharon and company)?
| quote: | This is a great example of European level-headedness.
Why are you now blaming the USA?
The USA on numerous occasions brought both sides to the table of negotiations.
Needless to say, the USA also helped you Europeans after WWII (and beyond). Behold the anger of the Europeans biting the very hand that fed them. Pathetic... |
Fact is the USA have sabotaged several times as the ONLY country UN-questions. As have the Russians in questions consiering Chechenya and China->Tibet. Europe has not a "problem place" to protect (except Austria:D , the country which talks with Saddam and does other bad things:stongue: ) and @present are not involved that strong in problem zones. Of cours Europeans (especially GB and France, but other as well) have done very bad things in the past, and many problems of today are the result of the european policy back then @ imperialism. |
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| evil_bastard |
Posted by Eugene:
"This is a great example of European level-headedness.
Why are you now blaming the USA?
The USA on numerous occasions brought both sides to the table of negotiations.
Needless to say, the USA also helped you Europeans after WWII (and beyond). Behold the anger of the Europeans biting the very hand that fed them. Pathetic... "
WW2 cost Britain £6 million a day.
We were on the brink of losing the battle of Britain, yet we still recieved not a jot of American help.
In fact, America only did help when they were attacked and forced to, and charged us for every man and every bullet, with interest!
We were in financial debt for many years, most of it going to America. We ripped out steel from everywhere we could find. The local parks in my area only recently had them replaced. We got whatever metal we could to manufacture war machinery. The nation was on rations. London was bombed every night for over 100 days. Yet America still demanded her money.
I don't see Britain asking for cash for fighting in Afghanistan, do you?
The US also reaped the vast majority of resources when Berlin was captured, even though the US suffered 300,000 casualties fighting for it and the Russians lost 20 million men fighting 90% of the Wehrmacht for 4 years!
300,000 men is not a huge amount on the scale of things. Britain lost 60,000 men in ONE DAY in the battle of the Somme in the previous war!
We also gave the US air force bases in the UK which are still here today 60 years on and active!
The British Royal navy had to ship in any tanks sold (not given) by the US.
Very hand that fed us? Bollocks!! |
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| cweb |
just some last things:
- Ariel sharon does NOT want peace, at least he doesnt want to give up anything.
- Arafat was a proven terrorist back in the 70s or something, his movement (al-fatah) hijacked a Swissair plane and destruct it! Now 20 years later he won the peace novel price???
- Sharon is much more easier to replace than Arafat, because I think Israel has much more people willing to take a peace role than Palestina. Back in Palestina they are teached that Israel is bad, and you have to consider the fact that they are the ones who are surpressed, Israel is the supressor not the other way round. so for the leaders of Palestina is much more easier to convince their people that something must change in a radical way.
- the settler-policy of Israel is just plain BAD! I fee l absolutely not bad for an israeli settler get killed. You know this isnt your land, so dont go there butthead!
- Did you remember that Sabotage of the Israeli military men who didnt want to continue to fight for Israel because they have saw UNFAIRNESS towards the Palestinian people?
Both sides are BAD, and thats why an international troop should go there! I suggested UN troops because Im not convinced that the USA is willing to do something maybe against Israel!
Another thing: The NATO is a very bad constitution! Its dominated by the USA and it doesnt do what its supposed to do. There were plenty of mistakes in the Kosovo-Dilemma, but unfortunately the mistakes were not big reported by the media. I have saw a plan to install a UN-army with real force because the NATO is basically just the USA! the other are just there and follow like asslickers, best example GB.
I will not post much more because its a bit dufficult for me to write this in english and most people will anyway disagree with me and call me misinformed or uninformed, anyway. But hey, I live here in switzerland, possibly the safest country of the moment, and its not really my problem whats going on there! If you thin retaliation is the best thing do without solving the problems (just like the US do) you'll have to live with further terror-attracks, sadly! |
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