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We are going into war!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :( (pg. 8)
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| Eugene |
| quote: | Originally posted by Tranex02
I'm not on Either side....
I simply don't like the 'Haters' whoever they may be...from both sides. |
true -- I agree with you there.
What you have to understand, though, is that when somebody's parent or sibling or close relative is killed, the mentality becomes a lot different. |
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| Yoepus |
| quote: | Originally posted by evil_bastard
Ariel Sharon is a raving psychopath. He wants to blow up Palestine and kill all Palestinians, establishing a forward operating base from which to launch offensive operations against Western Europe. He has scant regard for human life.
her allies." |
I am thinking you are the raving psychopath. Please make some sense and try asking some of the quesitons we posed for you. Our arguments seem to go through you like water, I have not followed up any of your post for the fact that you have lost your congitive thought processies.
Evil Bastard, what you just said is one of the most insanely, idiotic things that I have ever heard. At no point in your rambling, incoherent reponse were you even close to anything that can be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this room is now dumber for having listened to it. I award you no points and may God have mercy on your soul.
We have argued with fact and sources the questions and comments you have posed, you have no replied in kind to any of our inquiries or remarks.
You are not living in the matrix, we live in one dimension - therefore there is one history and one set of rules for nature. The study of these based on logical and rational is called science.
Yoepus
You have a lot of funny lines - too bad they're all in your face. |
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| FASTDJMP3 |
Eugene just shut up ... and the world is gonna be better
Yoepus and Izzy give facts and justify their arguments even if i don't agree with what they say cuz sometimes they don't want to admit some things (like Sharon is a psycho dude who wants to kill all the Palestinians) ... unlike you who just says stupid things and then at the end ur claiming that you're not a hater , how lame :rolleyes:
sorry dude but ur one big ignorant (just like the one rulling ur "welcoming" country) ... let's fight , errrrr .... hmmm .... the forces of evil
oh yeah and as u said the problem is the Palestinians , why were they in Palestina for more than two milleniums ? damn if only someone killed them all ages and ages ago , that would have been better for the jews ... right Eugene ? :rolleyes:
think 7 times in ur brain before u post something idiot again
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Yuval (DJ-Energy) , did i say u guys were living in security ? i know it's extremely dangerous and insecure outthere ... but do not forget the other ones who live in the other side ... who are afraid of getting their houses destroyed , their kids killed , and many other atrocities . they feel insecure too .
look at least i'm admitting what's happening in both sides , unlike a lot of you ...
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Yoepus u have to admit two things , otherwise i will definitely think you are manipulated with too much zionist propaganda or fake related news :
1-sharon is a psycho ready to kill all the palestinians
2-tsahal TARGETS innocent civilians as well
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Tranex02 thanks for backing me up bro , yes the Arab reunion was a success , but unfortunately our countries (our govs) are too afraid of the consequences if they open their mouths and say what they have to NORMALLY say (u know ...) , let's just hope things will change . |
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| evil_bastard |
My last post was taking the piss.
Yoepus, I'll be blunt. I'm sick and tired of this nonsense.
The combination of arrogance, put-downs, and placing spin on real life events and the views of others to change the meaning of their words.
You put a spin on everything you say, and I don't like spindoctors. The rest is just figures you've plucked from thin air.
Some examples:
| quote: | | ...when it is these police stations that are in fact the terrorist headquarters. 90% of the terrorism has orginated from these Offical Palestinian mechanisms |
| quote: | | To bad... you have dozens and dozens of ceasefires offered by the Israelis who have shown if not 100% restraint, 90%. The Palestinians have never showed more then 10%. |
| quote: | | In the last 15 days Israel has done 100% to restrain itself |
| quote: | | Therefore the use of military force is legitimate, and will be used until the threat against the citizenry is thwarted |
| quote: | | Israel launches surgical military operation against terrorist, terrorist launch monsterous terrorist attacks against innocent civillians |
| quote: | | I just do not understand why all the good Palestinians group up together and rise up against their #1 oppresors- their own government (PNA/PLO). |
| quote: | | Israeli track record: Extremly impressive in comparision to other wars (look at Afgahnistan perhaps), especially when you consider that the brunt of the war is handled in civilian cities, and that terrorist use civilian shields extensively |
| quote: | | Look Israel stuck to its cease-fire agreement since March 14th |
| quote: | | So why do the Palestinians go destorying the human minds, when Israel burns down an object or two? |
| quote: | | but how can you say that you are not against terrorism, and then say you are for tying the Israeli's hands |
| quote: | | the Palestinians people in an overwhelming majority support TERRORISM and SUICIDE BOMBERS |
| quote: | | Palestinian Government Bad - Israeli Government Good |
| quote: | | Israel has recongized the Palestinian right to self-determinatin |
| quote: | | These police stations have clearly been shown throughout the years to do more harm then good |
| quote: | | The fact is that indeed almost every single Palestinian police station has been collaborators, sponsoers, instigators, or have turned a blind eye to terrorism |
| quote: | | Anyway.. my point is that you can not have a terrorist regime living next to a democractice country and tie the hands of this country behind her back as the terrorist punch her down. The only solution is violence |
In every one of these instances you have came out as if it were the gospel truth, facts and nothing but. Yet in every instance, they are your opinions, based on your interpretations. They are not facts, nor are they opinions based on facts. Included are several examples of the spin you put on things you say, and soundbites such as tying Israel's hands behind it's back and other such journalistic nonsense.
But what has inclined me most to retire from this conversation has been your attempts to suggest that I sympathise, support, or condone terrorist actions. For these persistent antics you have lost my respect.
Want some examples?
This was a reply to me saying "what goes around comes around".
| quote: | | By saying this your are justifying the September 11th tradegy, you are justifying the fact that Iraqi's deserve to die since they have a bad leader. |
| quote: | | I guess you could have told the USA in WWII that Japan felt legitimate in its attack on Pearl harbor.. and that the Jews had it coming to them with that hollocaust thing |
| quote: | | Secondly there is a right side in this conflict, it is the Israeli side. If you don't think so then you must follow the same logic to state that there is no right side in the conflict of the USA against the Taliban and Al Queda |
| quote: | | Well then you have been waiting for a dumb argument. Since you are either with us or against us, you are either against the good or for the bad. By not taking a stand you are for the bad. |
| quote: | | You tell me that the Palestinian cause is 'good' |
In response to "The saying goes, one mans terrorist is another man's freedom fighter." ...
| quote: | | Ok so now you are justifying terrosim right? Be clear on this.. it looks that way to me. You really think that terrorism in any context is justified? |
In short, everything I say is twisted and thrown back at me. This is not a debate by any stretch of the imagination.
There is no constructive criticism anywhere, no appreciation of points. Everyone is just banging their own drum over and over, as if this debate is some sort of trance tune. This has all gotten overheated and I'm not going to be a part of this shouting match. I shall leave this thread to degenerate into the personal insulting and shouting it is inevitably destined to become... |
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| G K Murray |
in ell ALEX!!
Have u been up all typing that twat??
TRUE though, from what i've read of this thread most of it has been pathetic and not being backed up by factual events!! |
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| evil_bastard |
| I've decided the fastest way to turn my hours around is to stay up all night tonight. I am bored as fook though. |
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| Izzy |
evil_bastard, let me cool things down.
maybe the problem is that we're not seeing what you're trying to say, what is your stand?
if you put everything down into a microcosim of what we are saying its that terrorism is being conducted on israel and that israel has a right to defend itself agianst it.
it all expands into us trying to prove that terrorism comes from within the palestinian areas and its authority, that it is much worse than the type of "terrorism" israel commits on the palestinians and us trying to justify israel's different responses to it.
im sorry but even to me it appears that the actual indesputable facts yoepus and i do present do not register to you. its is ok for you to critisize our opinions and the way we voice them, but agian say nothing to the actual facts we present. more over i dont see any from you, until your last post that is and even then it was confusing as hell.
btw fastdjmp3 i have much respect for you. you do not have to agree with our views, but at least you can say that we give facts and justify our arguments (things which i havent seen from many in here), i applaud you highly for this. we try and debate with people who do likewise. so when are we meeting up for that nargila? |
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| G K Murray |
HMMMMMMMMMMMM
I'm staying up aswell, watchin LIVE CRICKET, ENGLAND in New Zealand!!
ENGLAND Losing wickets in a rapid fassion |
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| Yoepus |
| quote: | Originally posted by evil_bastard
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Yes it is so nice of you to take what I said and put it out of context, I have given some fact behind my statements. Further fact for my opinions once again may be found at the old Mid East thread, and if you were to lazy to check it out I find no reason to repeate myself. Again the link is; http://www.tranceaddict.com/forums/...15&pagenumber=1
Please discuss the points I have questioned, as well as others. What do you believe Arafat is doing? What do you believe he should be doing? What do you believe he will actually do? Why has he not done these things?
What do you believe the Israelis are doing? Why do you believe the Israeli's are doing such? Why would the Israelis want to do such things? What has Israel not done?
Please keep in mind I assume the following; Israel is a democracy. All people desire peace and security. A Democracy reperesents the will of the people. Therefore a democracy desires peace and security.
I will also assume the following; PA is a dictatorship (proof: they imprison political prisoners - they held one election many many years ago with no opposition - they have no parliment or congress that repersents the people -they are lead by one leader - he controls a police state). Therefore I can assume that the PA desires whatever it states in its charter.
Please consider the logical bit above when you get to the questions.. also whats your take on the facts and sources WE HAVE stated?
Yoepus
*He who laughs last thinks slowest." |
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| evil_bastard |
I believe I know perfectly well where you stand, and I believe you know exactly where I'm coming from too.
My views are not extreme, similar comments could be found in widely respected newspapers such as the Guardian. Similarly, many right wing reporters have said similar comments to yours.
I haven't all the answers, I confess this openly, and I believe my suggestions for solutions are no more vague than yours. I believe for long term peace, outside intervention must happen. You believe that Israel must enforce democracy on the Palestinian people. I believe that the damage has been done, and that the Palestinian people would not accept Israeli rule under anything other than the harshest of regimes. You disagree. And I believe this is where it ends. As regards democracies, I'd like to remind you that Hitler's NSDAP became the largest party in the Reichstag under a democratic system. Granted, economically their were difficult times and there is significant evidence that the SA were employing dirty tactics to gain votes, but this is evidence of a weakness in democracy which can allow morons, and psychos, to high positions.
However, I really see no point in banging our own drums over and over again. It's boring and it'll only end up in a slagging match which noone wants. |
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| Yoepus |
| quote: | [b]Originally posted by FASTDJMP3
oh yeah and as u said the problem is the Palestinians , why were they in Palestina for more than two milleniums ? damn if only someone killed them all ages and ages ago , that would have been better for the jews ... right Eugene ? :rolleyes: |
Just to correct the statement above before I get to the history, the Palestinians were not there for more then two milleniums according the PA's own definition of who is a Palestinian.
And it would have all been better for us if the British would have said in the Balfour decleration, Arabs get Jordan, Jews get Israel (including territories) and just draw the line... Instead they promised it all to the Arabs, and to the Jews. But the Jews are smarter... they got it in paper :) hahaha
anyway to your questions..
| quote: | Yoepus u have to admit two things , otherwise i will definitely think you are manipulated with too much zionist propaganda or fake related news :
1-sharon is a psycho ready to kill all the palestinians
2-tsahal TARGETS innocent civilians as well
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1 - You and I both know if this was true Sharon would have not hesitate to do this already. Seriously though, give the man a break. I mean you Arabs put such an evil persona around him making him out to be a devil as such. The truth is we have no proof, and it is all our guess to know what happened or what he did. I give the man the benifit of the doubt, as I do all men... Innocent until proven guilty.
Believe me though, there are far more extreme people then him, such as Netenyahu (who does not carry this same persona) and with whom I support with more then Sharon. I think Sharon has acted rationally, and with held much in form of strong retaliation for a while despite his populances desire against waiting and restraint.
2 - I will agree that Tzhal targets civilians, and I will agree that Tzhal (IDF) kills innocent civilains. I will not agree that Tzhal targets innocent civilians though. I am sure there are cases where this is true, and a single solider or two have killed a man in cold blood, however when this is the case I am informed that Tzhal does conduct an investigation, and punishes the individuals if responsible. The records of such are made public. So therefore you can not associate the blame with Tzhal as a whole, as it condems these actions, and furthermore does something to try and prevent them.
Plus think of it, Israel knows it is fighting a PR war against this terrorism is well... Targeting innocent civilians is no way to get a head in this.
Furthermore I will add that as the number of Israeli soldiers in the territories increase so will these incidents - this is accelerated by the fact that previously special units with highly trained forces were used - now those forces are running thin.
I don't know, I guess you can say I have been manipulated by to much Zionist propoganda....
| quote: | | Tranex02 thanks for backing me up bro , yes the Arab reunion was a success , but unfortunately our countries (our govs) are too afraid of the consequences if they open their mouths and say what they have to NORMALLY say (u know ...) , let's just hope things will change . |
Ya duds, come on and democratize your countries.. it will be all the better for all of us :)
Yoepus
You're so fat, when cars swerve to avoid you in the street they run out of petrol. |
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| Yoepus |
| quote: | [b]Originally posted by evil_bastard
As regards democracies, I'd like to remind you that Hitler's NSDAP became the largest party in the Reichstag under a democratic system. Granted, economically their were difficult times and there is significant evidence that the SA were employing dirty tactics to gain votes, but this is evidence of a weakness in democracy which can allow morons, and psychos, to high positions.
However, I really see no point in banging our own drums over and over again. It's boring and it'll only end up in a slagging match which noone wants. |
Look a democracy is not a democracy if it does not follow the tenets of the UN Charter and its Human Rights aspect. Amoung these are the foundations of democracy:
Free Elections (meaning more the one party on ballet)
Free Speech (meaning you can critize your politicians)
Freedom from Imprisonment.. Due course of Law (meaning above one is true).
Hitler did not have these three tenets, and therefore his democracy was no better then Arafat's or the Russian's or any dictator that tries to make a shame of elections. For god sake man they called him the thrid Rieche.. this might imply something eh?
When I refer to democracy I mean a TRUE DEMOCRACY following those tenets. Check US Consitution + Decleration of Independence + Federalist Notes for reference if in doubt here.
Further I will once again say that this is a war on terrorism, and there is a right side and a bad side, the fact that you would like to be netrual, and would like both sides to be equally at blame does not make this true.. this is what I am trying to point out.
Again there is only one truth, one history. Though you might have to dig deep to find it.
Yoepus
If I want your stupid opinion, I'll beat it out of you. |
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