Originally posted by RebeL9
some idiot label tried to spread that disease called "jumpstyle" to Sweden a few years ago. Luckily their plans got halted.
Don't take it that seriously, try to see the positive side of it. JOY.
MrJiveBoJingles
quote:
Originally posted by PETRAN
We probably used to be like that i guess, not necessarily with trance but with some form of music or the other. As a teenager i remember listening to some ethereal-wave (or some music like that) and remember feeling very intense feelings seriously, goosebumbs and everything lol. Now i rarely feel extreme emotions like that. It reminds me of that past thread of yours about emotional deficiency that comes with growing ha. Maybe my brain has habituated to life, becoming a kind of semi-zombie. Or maybe we are "trained" to live in a mediocrity of subjective experience. Who knows.
I can still get the "goosebumps" with certain types of music. Old prog, trance, and epic house, stuff like Sigur Ros and M83, certain classical music, some ambient and chillout, Aphex Twin sometimes. I don't think it's quite as easy to "induce" them anymore, but I can definitely still get them.
That's what I don't like about today's dance music, I don't often get the goosebumps from it! The trance is too schlocky and melodramatic, a parody of itself, and the deep-tech-house spectrum is too subdued. Don't get me wrong, I can enjoy the latter, but I don't feel really energized or revitalized by it the way I do listening to old Bedrock or Quivver or Breeder or Humate tracks. That's what I really seek, music that has that immediate power over me, not something that's just "likable" or "a bit fun to dance to" or "has some neat sounds," which is ultimately how I feel about most of today's techno/house that I hear.
kr00t0n
quote:
Originally posted by paulandrews
What kind of happy hardcore have you listened to? I always laugh when I hear that .
It's so bad that it transcends being bad in a funny way, and actually annoys me, I struggle to see how it is classed as music, let alone why it has such a huge fan-base :nervous:
nefardec
quote:
Originally posted by kr00t0n
Never said I did, I'm pretty much the most positive/optimistic person you're likely to meet :p
What I mean is that I don't listen to, say, depressing goth music as it doesn't instigate the emotions/feelings I like my music to.
Me being a happy person means I tend to gravitate towards happy music. I've never had a minimal or happy hardcore track raise a smile from me.
when you say happy you must mean 'euphoric'? i can think of plenty of blippity bloop tracks (which is what i assume you mean when you say minimal) that are fun and bring a smile to one's face. Most of that stuff is ironic and silly and probably the only thing it can do is make you chuckle :p
but don't dis 'minimal' so easily. true minimal techno is pretty powerful and emotionally diverse stuff, and definitely not the sound you imagine. if you can ever listen to this mix, do it:
you might actually think some of that stuff is rather trancey
PETRAN
quote:
Originally posted by MrJiveBoJingles
I can still get the "goosebumps" with certain types of music. Old prog, trance, and epic house, stuff like Sigur Ros and M83, certain classical music, some ambient and chillout, Aphex Twin sometimes. I don't think it's quite as easy to "induce" them anymore, but I can definitely still get them.
That's what I don't like about today's dance music, I don't often get the goosebumps from it! The trance is too schlocky and melodramatic, a parody of itself, and the deep-tech-house spectrum is too subdued. Don't get me wrong, I can enjoy the latter, but I don't feel really energized or revitalized by it the way I do listening to old Bedrock or Quivver or Breeder or Humate tracks. That's what I really seek, music that has that immediate power over me, not something that's just "likable" or "a bit fun to dance to" or "has some neat sounds," which is ultimately how I feel about most of today's techno/house that I hear.
I completely agree with your post. What i meant is that i can also feel overwhelmed by a track today, just not that often. I think it is normal to have stronger feelings and emotions when you are younger anyway :cool:
I don't like many of modern deep/tech house and techno at all, not even good for setting a mood or dancing. I personally think that those genres were much better in the past, much more varied and substantial than the majority of superficial and plastic bleepy and glitchy stuff they are today. As for trance, it is what you said, the majority is very formulaic (and similar to previous trance), clinical and over-blown in a kitsch way. Trance by numbers. But as i said before this is the effect that EDM has on me after all these years of listening to its' various genres :p
PETRAN
quote:
Originally posted by nefardec
but don't dis 'minimal' so easily. true minimal techno is pretty powerful and emotionally diverse stuff, and definitely not the sound you imagine. if you can ever listen to this mix, do it:
you might actually think some of that stuff is rather trancey
Ok lets get serious now, minimal techno was never meant to be "emotional diverse" or extremely substantial. I also like a lot of this deep/dub stuff, but not because they can elicit the whole emotional spectrum in me. I like them because they have a nice hypnotic and atmospheric aesthetic. Im not gonna listen to Basic Channel and all that Chain Reaction stuff (which also sound extremely similar to each othet but are REALLY nice, im not saying the cotnrary) and re-evaluate my life or feel the tiumphs of humanity and earth's wither. Don't overestimate the stuff you like or you'll end-up becoming the techno-hipster version of those Armin fanboys. They are nice for what they are.
nefardec
quote:
Originally posted by PETRAN
I don't like many of modern deep/tech house and techno at all, not even good for setting a mood or dancing. I personally think that those genres were much better in the past
i always think this is amusing: this is one of the early releases on richie hawtin's minus label
Theorem - Shift
this is minimal techno before mnml. granted it's more on the ambient side compared to earlier people like dbx and rob hood, but still...
this has just as much emotion in it as the fluffiest trance music IMO, but it's reduced to its emotional core - no special effects, just pure, numinous sound and a protracted build.
and i agree about modern deep house. most of the music i'm buying is from 15 years ago lol. some of the italian 'deep' records that came out around 1991-1993 is the best DANCE music ever IMO. discogs has a ton of great mixes from guys who collect this. I'm proud to say I have started a little collection of my own.
and classic deep house like this will always get me: Pepe Bradock - Deep Burnt. (based on a sample of Freddie Hubbard's “Little Sunflower”)
People like Larry Heard with records like mystery of love, black oceans and chez damier & stacey pullen with this classic 'forever monna'
nefardec
quote:
Originally posted by PETRAN
Ok lets get serious now, minimal techno was never meant to be "emotional diverse" or extremely substantial. I also like a lot of this deep/dub stuff, but not because they can elicit the whole emotional spectrum in me. I like them because they have a nice hypnotic and atmospheric aesthetic. Im not gonna listen to Basic Channel and all that Chain Reaction stuff (which also sound extremely similar to each othet but are REALLY nice, im not saying the cotnrary) and re-evaluate my life or feel the tiumphs of humanity and earth's wither. Don't overestimate the stuff you like or you'll end-up becoming the techno-hipster version of those Armin fanboys. They are nice for what they are.
lol that's a rob hood mix with maybe one or two bc tracks on it.
try to listen to this mix before you pass a judgment on why i am posting it.
actually i think minimal techno was meant to be emotionally diverse, just stripped down to its core. minimal doesn't mean a minimum of emotions, it means a minimum of musical moves to get to that emotion. sure, the records were often simple, but deejays like rob hood could make almost symphonic
basic channel certainly does not fill the emotional spectrum alone, but that's not what i was implying... this is a mix of lots of different things - a real trip - sadness, euphoria, wonderment, despair, etc
and PETRAN, I actually am not the biggest fan of chain reaction, because I think a lot of that stuff is very samey. I despise the dub netlabel stuff - it's probably as bad as armin van buuren's circle jerk, and a lot of the soulless dubbient techno like Bvdub thats coming out. Basic channel did it well and did it first, and their catalog is diverse and powerful. Chain reaction, not so much IMO. Some of the echospace catalog is great but again, there's a lot of filler in there.
I'm sure I'm not the fanboy you seem to think I am, more like a musical 'ronin' :p
of course, with any genre it's easiest to understand/perceive the emotional diversity from within.
TranceOwnsLol
quote:
Originally posted by PETRAN
Ok lets get serious now, minimal techno was never meant to be "emotional diverse" or extremely substantial. I also like a lot of this deep/dub stuff, but not because they can elicit the whole emotional spectrum in me. I like them because they have a nice hypnotic and atmospheric aesthetic. Im not gonna listen to Basic Channel and all that Chain Reaction stuff (which also sound extremely similar to each othet but are REALLY nice, im not saying the cotnrary) and re-evaluate my life or feel the tiumphs of humanity and earth's wither. Don't overestimate the stuff you like or you'll end-up becoming the techno-hipster version of those Armin fanboys. They are nice for what they are.
lol :rolleyes:
nefardec
quote:
Originally posted by TranceOwnsLol
lol :rolleyes:
yeah, the classic example - actually pretty similar to that theorem track i posted
PETRAN
quote:
Originally posted by nefardec
lol that's a rob hood mix with maybe one or two bc tracks on it.
try to listen to this mix before you pass a judgment on why i am posting it.
actually i think minimal techno was meant to be emotionally diverse, just stripped down to its core. minimal doesn't mean a minimum of emotions, it means a minimum of musical moves to get to that emotion. sure, the records were often simple, but deejays like rob hood could make almost symphonic
this rob hood mix is a real trip - sadness, euphoria, wonderment, despair, etc
I know the stuff you post man, i used to make dj sets with such Theorem tracks in 2001, im not new to the genre lol (and theorem have some excellent tracks, this is very nice thanks for posting). Its still not substantial. I'm not comparing minimal to trance or whatever, but if you try to objectively view "minimal techno" as an independent fom of music, like view it out of of an EDM-context or trance or house or whatever, its just poor.
It is nice as a form of hypnotic, deep and entrancing sound but it is still poor, simple as that. By being poor, it means that it has some inherent constraints, it is limited in where it can lead you-emotionally talking at least. You are not going to feel sad, or happy, or agonised, or angry, or anything more emotionally complex while listening to a minimal techno track. It is logical, because minimal techno is minimal techno, it is devoid of melodies or a substantial musical structure. It doesn't have musical variation, it is linear and repeatetive. It doesn't have peeks and lows, surprises or novelty. And this is exactly what it is supoosed to be. Repeatetive and simple. In order to feel hypnotised, entranced, maybe you'll get those mystical "highs" due to its very nature. It is still a form of simple dance music though, it will always be.
Now ofcourse if you like something a lot, you may automatically feel overwhelmed by it. So, in your techno-loving world you may find god on a daily basis within those minimal techno tracks and this is a normal reaction for someone who has a "passion" about something, be it a form of art, an activity or a person :)
(and pecause you seem to be a man of passion, just leave those armin fanboys alone would you? :p )
nefardec
quote:
Originally posted by PETRAN
It is nice as a form of hypnotic, deep and entrancing sound but it is still poor, simple as that. By being poor, it means that it has some inherent constraints, it is limited in where it can lead you-emotionally talking at least. You are not going to feel sad, or happy, or agonised, or angry, or anything more emotionally complex while listening to a minimal techno track. It is logical, because minimal techno is minimal techno, it is devoid of melodies or a substantial musical structure. It doesn't have musical variation, it is linear and repeatetive. It doesn't have peeks and lows, surprises or novelty. And this is exactly what it is supoosed to be. Repeatetive and simple. In order to feel hypnotised, entranced, maybe you'll get those mystical "highs" due to its very nature. It is still a form of simple dance music though, it will always be.
Look, I agree about single tracks, but right now I am talking about a set.
When I listen to BC tracks on their own it is nice to listen to but it is not inherently an emotional experience. The emotional experience is in the DJ set, the story told with the tracks. This was the understanding of techno music from the beginning. I admit that I do get off listening to the tracks by themselves and that is mainly because as a DJ I can imagine how they could fit into a set or suggest diretions.
And I didn't post the theorem track for you, but for everyone lol
I think basically agree with you when you say 'poor' but just so we're clear, what defines 'poor' and what defines 'rich' with regard to emotional content? Is not the degree relative to the experience/conditioning of the beholder? This is what I meant when I said one has to be 'within' the genre.
