Originally posted by PETRAN
Orbital genre-wise mostly belong to the early-90s "intelligent techno" movement (giving rise to later-term-IDM, although the term IDM nowadays is used to refer mostly to Autechre/Aphex Twin copy-cats/production-styles)-the golden era of electronic music- and as every "intelligent" artist of the period (Black Dog, B12, Biosphere, Aphex Twin, FSOL,The Orb, ì-Ziq, LFO, some releases by Pete Namlook etc.) they used to "flirt" with everything- techno, trance, ambient, house, breaks, world-beat, ethnic, dub etc. They surely have some german trance elements but presented in a more elegant, slower/more gentle way and i believe that some "epic" tracks such as Halcyon+on+on, the Lush series etc. had influenced the mid-90s style of epic house/progressive trance/house. The early 90s was a very revolutionary free-style era were many musicians had a style of his/her/their own. It was like the psychedelic 60s and 70s prog-rock but substituting the quitars with synths, drum-machines and samplers. Too bad that after 2000 (probably earlier) things started to become more "standard" and "clinical".
So true. That's what's great about the early 90s, the sense of freedom and originality, the unique signature of the individual artists. Open-mindedness and exploration as uniting agents rather than cliches and conventions.
boris_the_bear
oh shut the up everyone! listen to Assorted Lovetoy by Corvin Dalek and understand what EDM is all about :p:p:p
PETRAN
quote:
Originally posted by SMC
So true. That's what's great about the early 90s, the sense of freedom and originality, the unique signature of the individual artists. Open-mindedness and exploration as uniting agents rather than cliches and conventions.
Exactly! I just remembered how good that type of electronic music was! Compared to the overall formulaic of today found in EVERY genre of "EDM" (this word is starting to get on my nerves...)this stuff is pure gold...listen to that music seriously...
Listen to those poly-rhythms, the almost mystical atmospheres, the spacey chords, the freedom that those tracks radiate...and they say that "Villalobos" is the master of modern EDM...i vomit...it seems that everyone has forgot how good electronic music really was...
electronic music needs a new revolution, seriously.
nefardec
quote:
Originally posted by PETRAN
electronic music needs a new revolution, seriously.
i was just at an experimental electroacoustics conference and one of the topics that came up was that the technological paradigm has been more or less the same in electronic music since the time of bell labs.
the technology that was pioneered in this time was the result of rapidly changing cultural and technological circumstances.
the trouble now, i would argue, is that society has become so decadent and degenerative, caught in a decaying loop (i listen to too much dub lol). the consumerist/latecapitalist is simply out of control. just watch television for a few minutes to see this!
i like to describe two ways of living based on the biological processes of anabolism and catabolism. i won't go any further here other than to say that i think right now we are deep within a catabolic process that is not sustainable..
any musical revolution must be precipitated by a technological and before that, a cultural revolution. I think this revolution needs to be a revolution from within, especially as technology opens up to individual creative power and then collective effort and collaboration
PETRAN
quote:
Originally posted by nefardec
i was just at an experimental electroacoustics conference and one of the topics that came up was that the technological paradigm has been more or less the same in electronic music since the time of bell labs.
the technology that was pioneered in this time was the result of rapidly changing cultural and technological circumstances.
the trouble now, i would argue, is that society has become so decadent and degenerative, caught in a decaying loop (i listen to too much dub lol). the consumerist/latecapitalist is simply out of control. just watch television for a few minutes to see this!
i like to describe two ways of living based on the biological processes of anabolism and catabolism. i won't go any further here other than to say that i think right now we are deep within a catabolic process that is not sustainable..
any musical revolution must be precipitated by a technological and before that, a cultural revolution. I think this revolution needs to be a revolution from within, especially as technology opens up to individual creative power and then collective effort and collaboration
Hmm that biochemical analogy looks interesting. So catabolism is a process that breaks down larger molecules to smaller ones (releasing energy in the process if i remember?). How exactly does it work within the modern cultural context?
I wholeheartedly agree with you. Two years ago i might say (actually i have explicitly said and supported) that the transition from analogue to digital could be a factor to blame. Now i think that this is not a substantial reason. Maybe it could be but in more indirect ways...analogue equipment used to be very expensive, only the more "serious people" used to spend their money. Now this doesn't seem to be a serious factor. The ergonomics and the "feeling" surely change but i don't think to the point of decreasing (or increasing for that matter) one's talent (or substantially altering his ideas). The easier availability of software has given the chance to more musicians to make music (although i don't know if the extensive EDM flooding is good in the end...)and there will always be the "serious people". Software doesn't change that.
I also think that computers have also been used in making electronic music right from the early-90s. Someone correct me if i'm wrong, but wasn't the famous Atari ST the professional music workstation which had an inbuild MIDI port? The first versions of Cubase and Logic (it wasn't called like that back then) were also exclusive for Atari ST (and Amiga 500/600 was good for graphics...the age of the legendary motorola processors...before Intel won the epic battle...). I have the impression that computers were used from back then. Ofcourse fewer persons had computers in the early-90s but the medium of production was kinda similar.
I would agree with you and conclude that it is the state of society that degenerated post-00s music in general. Not that there isn't good music...there is, but it simply doesn't have the "revolutionary feeling", the emotional power of past times (and for that reason, it could be "art of a lesser god", if the concept of "lesser art" exists) . I remember that recent thread with the title "state of trance= state of the world" and it was closed because people thought it was stupid (ironically, it was surely more intelligent than the majority of the MD threads...). That thread seemed stupid because the analysis was about (unicorn) trance. But was it? if you substitute trance with music in general, you might lead yourself to some valuable ideas and thoughts.
Look at the 90s. Was it really the analogue synths or even the drugs that made the difference? They could be-up to a certain degree-but their overall contributions would be minimal IMO. The 90s was a period of world-changing events. The ultimate fall of the communist world, the fall of soviet union, the break-up of Yugoslavia and the reunification of Germany,the rise of European Union (the Maastrict treaty), the substantial economic growth, the return of a "hippie ideology" after the dark backlashed conservative 80s, the explosion of technology and computers, the creation of the www and the expansion of telecommunications...these could be some of the factors that probably influenced the state of mind found in those tracks (and im not talking about a direct influence of the events but their indirect influence on the overall lifestyle of people living the 90s).
After 2000, the consumerist world seemed to progressively become more and more cold, detached, cynical, alienated, isolated...and technology seems to enslave people rather than help them achieve something greater....These aspects are possibly reflected in music. Listen to todays EDM. The majority is comprised by completely souless tracks IMO. Beeps and glitches have substituted passion, funk, groove, melodies, its like the modern cold soundscapes made by windows warnings, e-mail messages and mobile calls are incorporated in the music, a caricature, only an ugly distorted shadow of what electronic music once was. A shadow moved by money-bringing DJ-names, in a world where every sub-standard producer whores himself/herself about "his/her new track supported by Tiesto and Armin Van Buuren or Magda and Villalobos".
One of my favorite genres is post-00s post-rock which i consider it to be a "rebirth" of 70s prog-rock. It might be, but oh, what a dark, minimalistic, post-apocalytpic rebirth is. 70s prog-rock music was full of epic spacey quitars, jazzy explosions, cosmic blues, folkloric romanticism,virtuosic performances, mythical and sci-fi influenced story-telling and narratives. Post-rock uses a similar "artistic direction" to tell the story of nothingness, emptiness, melancholy, social isolation...without a significant cause...just because...the world has become an empty consumeristic place.
Godspeed You! Black Emperor sum it up perfectly. "They don't sleep anymore on the beach"...
Originally posted by PETRAN
After 2000, the consumerist world seemed to progressively become more and more cold, detached, cynical, alienated, isolated...and technology seems to enslave people rather than help them achieve something greater....These aspects are possibly reflected in music. Listen to todays EDM. The majority is comprised by completely souless tracks IMO. Beeps and glitches have substituted passion, funk, groove, melodies, its like the modern cold soundscapes made by windows warnings, e-mail messages and mobile calls are incorporated in the music, a caricature, only an ugly distorted shadow of what electronic music once was. A shadow moved by money-bringing DJ-names, in a world where every sub-standard producer whores himself/herself about "his/her new track supported by Tiesto and Armin Van Buuren or Magda and Villalobos".
I think the main problem is how you view today's EDM in contrast to that of the 90's. When you look at today's EDM all you see is stripped down boringness, crammed with gimmicky effects that try to substitute the lack of musicianship. And then you recall the 90's, Orbital, Leftfield, Underworld and all these legendary acts that made truly original and innovative music.
Well I'd say you romanticize 90's EDM too much. You filtered all the best from that time, and neglected all the , so you're not really objective here. 90's were full of too, remember eurodance, gabba, happy hardcore, anthem house that got popular after the succes of Insomnia, numerous techno, rave, goa and IDM copycats, hard house...
For example, people here have a very high opinion about classic trance and think that there was much less before '95 than there is now, but I remeber when I was extensively listening to it that I tried to make a list of top 200 tracks and I literally had to go through 2000+ pretty ty tracks to single out 200 good ones (and I wasn't even satisfied with all of them at the end).
What I try to say is that great music is still being made, however not all of it is in the spotlight anymore. I guess we'll have to wait another 3 or 4 years (maybe more) to impartially compare these two decades. I'm almost certain that in 2019 (when I forget all these cheap that gets produced today) I'll love my favourite albums from the 00's just as much as I'll love my favourite albums from the 90's.
PETRAN
quote:
Originally posted by sljiva
I think the main problem is how you view today's EDM in contrast to that of the 90's. When you look at today's EDM all you see is stripped down boringness, crammed with gimmicky effects that try to substitute the lack of musicianship. And then you recall the 90's, Orbital, Leftfield, Underworld and all these legendary acts that made truly original and innovative music.
Well I'd say you romanticize 90's EDM too much. You filtered all the best from that time, and neglected all the , so you're not really objective here. 90's were full of too, remember eurodance, gabba, happy hardcore, anthem house that got popular after the succes of Insomnia, numerous techno, rave, goa and IDM copycats, hard house...
For example, people here have a very high opinion about classic trance and think that there was much less before '95 than there is now, but I remeber when I was extensively listening to it that I tried to make a list of top 200 tracks and I literally had to go through 2000+ pretty ty tracks to single out 200 good ones (and I wasn't even satisfied with all of them at the end).
What I try to say is that great music is still being made, however not all of it is in the spotlight anymore. I guess we'll have to wait another 3 or 4 years (maybe more) to impartially compare these two decades. I'm almost certain that in 2019 (when I forget all these cheap that gets produced today) I'll love my favourite albums from the 00's just as much as I'll love my favourite albums from the 90's.
Yes there were in the 90s, i know that. BUT, they also have those acts man. Today what do we have? I'm talking about EDM not some kind of down-tempo (e.g. not Ulrich Schnauss)Ok Derek Carr is very nice but he is a retro musician (those musicians look backwards not forwards!). What i say is that the vast majority of today's electronic dance music lacks the freedom, the innovation and musicianship that those acts had. What EDM albums do you like from the 00s?
Trance-MB
quote:
Originally posted by sljiva
I think the main problem is how you view today's EDM in contrast to that of the 90's. When you look at today's EDM all you see is stripped down boringness, crammed with gimmicky effects that try to substitute the lack of musicianship. And then you recall the 90's, Orbital, Leftfield, Underworld and all these legendary acts that made truly original and innovative music.
Well I'd say you romanticize 90's EDM too much. You filtered all the best from that time, and neglected all the , so you're not really objective here. 90's were full of too, remember eurodance, gabba, happy hardcore, anthem house that got popular after the succes of Insomnia, numerous techno, rave, goa and IDM copycats, hard house...
For example, people here have a very high opinion about classic trance and think that there was much less before '95 than there is now, but I remeber when I was extensively listening to it that I tried to make a list of top 200 tracks and I literally had to go through 2000+ pretty ty tracks to single out 200 good ones (and I wasn't even satisfied with all of them at the end).
I agree. Just looking at my collection of compilation cd's I didn't like about half the tracks at those, and the genre even doesn't matter that much.
But I don't think you can call all these different genres . To you they are, and even to me now some do sound old, but back then each of them had their success. I remember Underworld, Orbital, Chemical Brothers more as strange, different, experimental giving me no special feelings at all. Something which Eurodance, Happy Hardcore, Rave and German Techno tracks did. Looking at the Berlin Love Parades proves that at least many people enjoyed all this stuff and that is what it's all about.
This week someone mentioned that people are lazy. I guess that's true. That's why Eurodance and Happy Hardcore had that much success. A good commercial machine forced it upon people. Same thing like now is happening with Trance. But it happened to Eurodance and Happy Hardcore in the same way, one after another track appeared and many were copies and crap. For the good ones you needed to look harder, but it didn't mean than no good ones were being made any more.
Only difference now is that only a few DJ's and labels are hold responsible for this and I guess the bashing only helps them got get more success or at least attention. Focussing on what you do like would be a better way of dealing with that.
I sometimes wonder what would happen if some of the 'crappy' ASOT tracks were transported 10 years back.
sljiva
quote:
Originally posted by PETRAN
Yes there were in the 90s, i know that. BUT, they also have those acts man. Today what do we have? I'm talking about EDM not some kind of down-tempo (e.g. not Ulrich Schnauss)Ok Derek Carr is very nice but he is a retro musician (those musicians look backwards not forwards!). What i say is that the vast majority of today's electronic dance music lacks the freedom, the innovation and musicianship that those acts had. What EDM albums do you like from the 00s?
Yeah I was talking about electronic music in general, and I have to agree that dance music of today is much weaker, but that was kinda inevitable. I mean, how far can you really go with that 4x4. Non-dancey music, however, is a completely different story.
I would actually argue that 00's had just two highlights concerning dance music; one was the rise of proggy-tech house around 2003 with Holden's Balance and BC (which unfortunately didn't last very long), and other was resurrection of dub techno in 2007/2008 (which unfortunately lasts longer than it should).
BTW, I was listening to Orbital's In Sides today (again) and I agree we probably won't see something as brilliant as that for a long time. That is THE album of the 90's. It perfectly defines the last decade, just like Kids or Hackers define it in the world of movies. However, I deeply believe that we're getting more good albums now, just not really brilliant ones like In Sides.
So in honour of In Sides, and 500th post, here's Adnan's, the best tune that will be posted in this thread:
PETRAN
quote:
Originally posted by sljiva
Yeah I was talking about electronic music in general, and I have to agree that dance music of today is much weaker, but that was kinda inevitable. I mean, how far can you really go with that 4x4. Non-dancey music, however, is a completely different story.
I would actually argue that 00's had just two highlights concerning dance music; one was the rise of proggy-tech house around 2003 with Holden's Balance and BC (which unfortunately didn't last very long), and other was resurrection of dub techno in 2007/2008 (which unfortunately lasts longer than it should).
BTW, I was listening to Orbital's In Sides today (again) and I agree we probably won't see something as brilliant as that for a long time. That is THE album of the 90's. It perfectly defines the last decade, just like Kids or Hackers define it in the world of movies. However, I deeply believe that we're getting more good albums now, just not really brilliant ones like In Sides.
So in honour of In Sides, and 500th post, here's Adnan's, the best tune that will be posted in this thread:
OH YES! In Sides was one of my first music albums (in general) i bought it when i was 15! I used to have all the Prodigy albums and i thought that Orbital would play something similar...i also remember that at first i wasn't sure what i was listening to...but after 3 listens it all made sense and i remember that i experienced somekind of a mystical experience(!). I remember travelling to the layered (almost symphonic) electronic music of the Box part.1 (featuring cinematic synths and a playful sweet glockenspiel) and by the time the strings exploded to the Box part.2, i had an eargasm of some sorts! How couldn't i? That track featured the magical, genious combination of some-kind of a mystical santuri-sounding (a byzantine instrument)melody playing alongside slowly pulsating cosmic synths and cyber-punk robotic breakbeaty rhtyhms. This is genious. Despite the fact that i was young, i immediately thought that the current album was a very important musical piece, not just a cool angry electronic album (like The Prodigy) or just some electronic music to dance to. I even remember my mother stating how beautiful that music was! (my mother was a fan of Vangelis, Jarre, Floyd etc,)
This is the problem. You wont get this type of electronic music today, period.
Thanks for posting the magical "Adnan's" and reminding me of the beauty of that masterful album. It is surely the best electronic tune posted in this long thread...(and just slightly lower that the GY!BE piece i posted before :p )
Lets just hope that someone,somewhere,sometime, (somehow), will start a revolution, and for one more time, we will have the chance to hear some electronic pieces of art radiating from our speakers:)
nefardec
quote:
Originally posted by sljiva
btw have you guys heard carsten nicolai's new xerrox volume two cd?
i actually got to hear him play this stuff live when i was living in rome and he was at the german academy there. he did this incredible outdoor listening party there amongst the gardens. it was like straight out of umberto eco's 'foucault's pendulum'
sljiva
I thought I was the only one who listens to Alva Noto...
Unfortunately, I haven't heard Volume 2 yet, but since Volume 1 was fantastic and last year's Unitxt was one of my favs from 2008 (and especially since Raster Noton is gradually becoming my favourite label - check out astounding Automne Fold), I can't wait to hear it.
