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Is school REALLY that important or useful? (pg. 11)
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| EricB. |
| quote: | Originally posted by Joss Weatherby
BTW this whole argument is pretty much not what I am intending to do eitherway...
I am going to do school, I have a free ride basically for as long as I want to do school, so the whole money argument I am making is for purpose of debate only.
I do feel that placing school though second to securing wealth early is a better option though in a lot of cases. Don't let opportunities slip through your fingers, thats the stuff that can destroy you. |
thats right nou, you should level up your mage as far as you can before school so when youre at school you dont have to worry abt it. You can just focus on school work and then go home and focus on crushing elves. |
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| Joss Weatherby |
| quote: | Originally posted by pkcRAISTLIN
These people who criticise formal education are ing hypocrites anyway. When they’re sick do they go to a doctor, or to someone who watches grey’s anatomy or the occasional youtube video on medicine? That’s not to say that a small percentage of people can’t become experts all by themselves, gifted people like that obviously exist. But they’re hardly the norm.
Education is just one more life experience. You can get from it anything you wish to. |
Yea, well thats a different argument, careers where peoples lives are on the line need formal training.
The only ones I can think of though really are maybe structural engineers/architects, doctors/nurses, and lawyers. There are a lot of fields where a degree doesn't really mean anything. |
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| Joss Weatherby |
| quote: | Originally posted by EricB.
im a washed up poster who sucks at this |
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| jonSun |
don't mean to jump on the bandwagon
| quote: | Originally posted by Joss Weatherby
The whole time I was working there I was being under-payed to not only code, but to manage my own projects as well as manage client relations. |
you were underpaid but then laid off? hmmm |
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| -FSP- |
I am pretty sure I can talk about say string theory in a physics forum. If I wanted to talk about brains, I can go to philpapers.org , view papers that are going to be published or are already published, ask the writer to emphasize points of the paper I didn't know and I can even start a thread about something about cognitive science over there at 4 a.m. or at any other type of forum. I would've said that school is really useful years ago, but technology has made things even easier.
If you value face to face conversation, then you obviously won't have it on the internet at the moment at least.
I can sort of see why you would want to go to a brand name school for post-grad education though. If you want to specialize in a very esoteric sub-subject in your discipline, then you might want to learn it from a superstar academic in a brand name school who specializes in that. Though I don't know how effective that is because just like superstar rock stars who write music, tour all the time, etc, superstar academics are writing books, papers, and speaking at other places. You might not get a chance to get a hold of them. My gut tells me that top-tier schools with top-tier academics won't even look at an applicants application if they went to a supposedly weak school (which to many people means a school that is not a well known brand name).
| quote: | | Except of course that most people in my experience are woefully inept at teaching themselves anything. Who will parse your work and learning? How do you know you really “get it” without somebody looking over your shoulder correcting your mistakes? Your attitude is exactly what produces a bunch of ignorant know-it-alls who think reading a webpage is a valid substitute for the more rigorous process of producing quality work (that has to pass more than just your own standards). |
Ok, well I should clarify:
I don't want an autodidact engineer because I'm afraid of stuff collapsing on my face.
I don't want a doctor who learned his stuff from wikibooks.
But there are some disciplines that can show proof of expertise through results, and through their portfolio.
But there are many things you learn in school that you don't need for your life or your job at all. What the hell is a CS major going to do with knowledge of Shakespeare? You can do that at home. Why does a CS major need to learn that? I think it's because people want money.
And it's not like it's impossible to know what you are doing by being an autodidact. There are many self-taught scientists, musicians, artists, mathematicians, etc who've taught themselves and made an impact to their disciplines. Sure there are tons of cranks too, I will admit that.
And you also took that quote and distorted what I was trying to say. You totally forgot about the McDonaldsfication of education in my post. School has become just like going to the mall. You see a bunch of expensive shirts that are pretty much the same material but at the end of the day they are shirts FFS. 1+1=2 is the same behind my computer, a random state college, or yale. How much you pay for that knowledge is different though. |
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| Joss Weatherby |
| quote: | Originally posted by jonSun
don't mean to jump on the bandwagon
you were underpaid but then laid off? hmmm |
everyone was underpaid and working multiple job descriptions, the joys of working in a small firm. |
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| zoogla |
| quote: | Originally posted by pkcRAISTLIN
Except of course that most people in my experience are woefully inept at teaching themselves anything. Who will parse your work and learning? How do you know you really “get it” without somebody looking over your shoulder correcting your mistakes? Your attitude is exactly what produces a bunch of ignorant know-it-alls who think reading a webpage is a valid substitute for the more rigorous process of producing quality work (that has to pass more than just your own standards). |
+2 and this is where the extra value add comes in, where you do learn things that are not on the internet and not even necessarily through discourse with your peers: superstar faculty. they may not be in the top-ranked schools; you have to do your homework and seek those professors out. When choosing which school to go to for finance, I looked for the top publishing and highest ranking investment banking professionals that also teach or left their jobs to teach, and then chose my school. I communicated with them before selecting my school to talk about my interests and find out which courses they taught and make sure they're not going on sabbatical or anything when I arrived there.
taking these extra steps ensures you will gain without a doubt, from the leading thinkers/doers in the field of your choice.
like someone said, to maximize your return on investment, you need to put a lot more research into it.
although in person, I'm very easy to get along with, I really suck at managing others. so I threw myself into student government, to hone my leadership skills. you can't make mistakes being a leader in reality without getting financially burned in some way--which is inevitable, but it's helpful to have a few more kicks at the can when the consequences aren't as great (further to my earlier point). |
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| pkcRAISTLIN |
| quote: | Originally posted by -FSP-
I am pretty sure I can talk about say string theory in a physics forum. If I wanted to talk about brains, I can go to philpapers.org , view papers that are going to be published or are already published, ask the writer to emphasize points of the paper I didn't know and I can even start a thread about something about cognitive science over there at 4 a.m. or at any other type of forum. I would've said that school is really useful years ago, but technology has made things even easier.
If you value face to face conversation, then you obviously won't have it on the internet at the moment at least. |
yeah, but that's you. im not sure how much time you've spent with the common folk, but they're pretty common. technology has made a huge impact i agree, but you're forgetting that its also made it even easier to access poor information. the number of nutters online is testimony to this. and i think there are more nutters out there than people like you.
| quote: | Originally posted by -FSP-
I can sort of see why you would want to go to a brand name school for post-grad education though. If you want to specialize in a very esoteric sub-subject in your discipline, then you might want to learn it from a superstar academic in a brand name school who specializes in that. Though I don't know how effective that is because just like superstar rock stars who write music, tour all the time, etc, superstar academics are writing books, papers, and speaking at other places. You might not get a chance to get a hold of them. My gut tells me that top-tier schools with top-tier academics won't even look at an applicants application if they went to a supposedly weak school (which to many people means a school that is not a well known brand name).
Ok, well I should clarify:
I don't want an autodidact engineer because I'm afraid of stuff collapsing on my face.
I don't want a doctor who learned his stuff from wikibooks.
But there are some disciplines that can show proof of expertise through results, and through their portfolio.
But there are many things you learn in school that you don't need for your life or your job at all. What the hell is a CS major going to do with knowledge of Shakespeare? You can do that at home. Why does a CS major need to learn that? I think it's because people want money.
And it's not like it's impossible to know what you are doing by being an autodidact. There are many self-taught scientists, musicians, artists, mathematicians, etc who've taught themselves and made an impact to their disciplines. Sure there are tons of cranks too, I will admit that.
And you also took that quote and distorted what I was trying to say. You totally forgot about the McDonaldsfication of education in my post. School has become just like going to the mall. You see a bunch of expensive shirts that are pretty much the same material but at the end of the day they are shirts FFS. 1+1=2 is the same behind my computer, a random state college, or yale. How much you pay for that knowledge is different though. |
for sure. though i will point out that the commercial side of schooling is much more advanced in the US than many other countries. |
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| Chairman Meow |
| quote: | Originally posted by pkcRAISTLIN
Except of course that most people in my experience are woefully inept at teaching themselves anything. Who will parse your work and learning? How do you know you really “get it” without somebody looking over your shoulder correcting your mistakes? Your attitude is exactly what produces a bunch of ignorant know-it-alls who think reading a webpage is a valid substitute for the more rigorous process of producing quality work (that has to pass more than just your own standards). |
You're right. All they need is my little red book. |
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| Sushipunk |
| quote: | Originally posted by pkcRAISTLIN
you're forgetting that its also made it even easier to access poor information. |
Bingo.
The internet is a wonderful thing, but it is truly a platform for the mass dissemination of inaccurate 'facts' and theories. |
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| FuzzQi |
| quote: | Originally posted by Sushipunk
Bingo.
The internet is a wonderful thing, but it is truly a platform for the mass dissemination of inaccurate 'facts' and theories. |
like this
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| enydo |
| quote: | Originally posted by Joss Weatherby
I did my 4 years, its not my fault the system only counts homework towards your grade. If papers and tests were what counted and not stupid pointless busy work then Ida past with flying colors.
High School in the US is a joke, its so easy the smart kids fail because they dont give a and they get lumped into the people that are too stupid to even pass a test. Only the people that do the pointless busy work pass.
Home time is my time, school time is school time. Make the day longer if you cant figure out how to teach everything during class. |
What?
What the high school did you go to? All the smart people I know passed with flying colors without even ing trying because it was that easy to do. And what, could you not get into any honors, AP, or IB classes? You just seem to be whining because you didn't like school, and you wished it catered more to you. me me me me me, is all I read in that blurb.
Sometimes we have to do things we don't want to do, and in school especially, you just have to get done to the best of your abilities so you get the marks you want. You basically get out what you put in. Put in nothing because you think the work is below you, and guess what, you get nothing out of it.
And if that whole "home time is my time" is your philosophy don't even go to college. Don't bother.
:stongue: |
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