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How sick is this? (pg. 10)
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| sothis |
| i could attempt to continue this conversation as one of the (under 5 ) americans who are trying to dispel the idea that all americans are evil, but its pretty obvious that on this board everyones opinions are set. thus, rather than arguing back and forth about something neither will agree on... im leaving this conversation. its just going to anger me too much. |
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| u4ea:[soulstar] |
Tiesto tiesto, keep your pants on! :haha:
Anyways, I have nothing much to say except Henry Kissinger started all this way back when he came into power as an elite security advisor to the president (most notably, Mr. Nixon). He was so friggin up there, he commanded most of every security agencies because he was a chairman on a committee that oversees it all. This man started it all. He waas the mastermind behind violent and aggressive US foreign policy.
Check the web on him. Every US intercedes (or interfere) into other countries from Israel-1967 war, Cold War, Vietnam war, to Panama leads to him. I wouldn't be surprised whoever is "really" running the government, is running it like a Kissinger.
This Afghan war is no different, nor, previously, 9/11. There is an invisible undercurrent of geo-political and socio-economic intrigue behind it. Deception is the word for it because "there is more to what is heard and seen on the news and world events" of these scales.
Deception and manipulation was Kissinger's best friends because he loved power and deviantly loved to use it.
So the question is: who's running the whole show now?
heheh
EDIT: for the record, I"m not stereotyping americans, just saying there is a small,very very small, miniscule body of government in teh US that answers to no one, yet the world must answer to them. That's all folks. |
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| JohnSmith |
yeah, kissinger was an evil man that's for sure.
and sothis, i just want to say, sorry, your wrong. not everyone on this boards opionion is set, i suppose i can only speak for my own, but i don't think all americans are evil.
some are, and whoever is running the show behind the scenes certainly is.
and.. i wouldn't be too surprised if it was your boss. |
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| Renegade |
sothis:
Haha, whoa, hang on a second. :D
I don't you quite understand what I'm trying to say. This has nothing to do with average Amercians. This has only to do with the American government and its policies, not its people. I have nothing against the American people, only the few that have been selected to represent the American people in government. You are as entitled to your views as I am to mine, and I happen to agree with some of what you say (from what I've read in this thread and others, you seem a smart and objective woman).
However, as I said earlier in the thread, you seem to be taking personal offence to what I have to say about your government and its policies, and I'm not quite sure why. If I have offended you then I am sorry, and it wasn't my intention, but you have to learn to separate yourself from the country that represents you, and understand that they are not necessarily doing the right thing. I could post similar objections to my own government, and will should the opportunity arise.
Anyway all I'm trying to do is raise an objection to the actions of the US government. There is no reason for you to interpret this as a judgement of the moral substance of the average American. |
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| u4ea:[soulstar] |
| quote: | Originally posted by JohnSmith
yeah, kissinger was an evil man that's for sure.
and sothis, i just want to say, sorry, your wrong. not everyone on this boards opionion is set, i suppose i can only speak for my own, but i don't think all americans are evil.
some are, and whoever is running the show behind the scenes certainly is.
and.. i wouldn't be too surprised if it was your boss. |
Considering yourfrom vancity, don't be surprised your next-door neighbor is DEA. :eek: |
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| tiesto14 |
| quote: | Originally posted by Renegade
Quite clearly I am having a blond moment, because I have no idea why the US attacked Afghanistan, |
let me enlighten you...Al Qeuida and Taliban where based there....Osama bin Laden orchestrated the attacks from there....terrorist camps involved in the 9.11 attacks trained there.
| quote: | Originally posted by Renegade
deposed the government, and then forced the country to abide by the US' idea of government (did no-one else take note of the complete mess that the elections there were?)., |
UUUMMMM?...what government?...they had none.....none what so ever...it was utter chaos that Afghanistan civilians despised and did not want to tolerate. The U.S. did not force anyone to do anything...Afghaistan selected there new leader on their own.
Maybe you where not aware of the fact the "so-called" government that you speak of in Afghaistan had women's clitoris' removed, beat women and children, disobeyed education, unless they where educated in hatred and murder.
| quote: | Originally posted by Renegade
Last time I checked, the state of Afghanistan didn't in any way organise, fund or condone what happened on 11/9 |
again WHAT STATE?...there was none...
and if thats your rationale...then no country should ever go to war...because no civilian asks to be involved in them....but there is no avoidance of civilian casualties in a war..it is an impossibility.
and if i can recall correctley...each and every person in the WTC, Pentagon and the plance in Pennsylvania did not in anyway fund or condone it either...nor did the Americans the U.S. embassy in Africa that Osama also targetted...
| quote: | Originally posted by Renegade
While the UN stands idly by, the US continues to develop an arsenal of nuclear and other destructive weapons, ready to attack any any country it perceives as a threat. |
conceive as a threat?...yes of course...if you know someone is coming at you in a bar with a knife do u stand there and get stabbed?..or do u prepare yourself for an attack and defend yourself in anyway possible inorder to protect yourself from bodily harm?....
if you chose the first then you die...if you choose the 2nd u may still die...but you did your best and your survival rate greatley improoved
| quote: | Originally posted by Renegade
How is the US pre-emptively attacking Iraq - with its vastly superior (both in terms of technology and number) arsenal - any better than Iraq pre-emptively attacking the US? |
it isnt....but does that mean we shouldnt?...maybe you want Irag invading your country...but i dont want it done here...nor does 90% of sane Americans..
| quote: | Originally posted by Renegade
In either case, the destructive power of his weapons doesn't come close to those that the US posess. What's the difference? Objectively, tell me why it's okay to have such a double-standard?? |
because of NATO and UN rules...which Iraq refuses to obey....not only that it is very established that Iraq and Hussein condone terrorism and the killing of American civilians....it makes no difference though that its Americans...it could be any nations civilians...
| quote: | Originally posted by Renegade
Yes, but the vengence was misdirected. The people who carried out the attacks are dead, so there was no rational way to get back at them. Osama Bin Laden went into hiding and could not be found, so there was no rational way to get back at him. So, the US did the next best thing and invaded the country that Osama Bin Laden was last seen in, deposed the government and carpet bombed what little infrastructure those people had. |
oooohhhh ok since the direct terrorists died in the attack and Osama was not to be found we should jus say---
"oh well it..lets take our lose of civilian casualties in a non war time situation and suck it up and move on with out lives"
and are we then supposed to disregard all the terrorist camps in Afghanistan with Al Qeuida and Taliban soldiers?...and disregard evedience that showed Osama to be in Afghanistan?....
| quote: | Originally posted by Renegade
I'm not saying that they're good people, or that we shouldn't fear them, or - indeed - that they aren't dangerous, I'm simply saying that their irrationalism can do far less harm than the irrationalism of Mr. Bush. |
your right Bush can do ALOT more harm...but the difference is he doesnt do it out of utter hatred...he did it out of war that was waged on our homeland..as would ANY leader in any country.
| quote: | Originally posted by Renegade
Americans are quick to talk about how much tangible foregin aid they dish out (in the form of food and other simple supplies to the people of underprivilaged countries) but fail to acknowledge the economic damage that they are doing simultaneously. . |
but on the other hand if America doesnt give aid we are the bad guys...its a no win situation with America...we do good we are bad..we do bad we are bad....maybe we should let all these lesser nations and all the people who ask for our help to fend for themselves and watch as all the barbaric nations kill one another and begin to attack other nations...which will happen...then what?..then u say America could of stopped it...but they are s and dont do for anyone...so we lose either way.
| quote: | Originally posted by Renegade
There was an ad on Australian TV a while back regarding the IMF, which said that for every dollar they give to countries as economic aid, they take back seven in interest. The idea behind American aid (though, many other western countries are at fault here too) is that they lend a country some money to build an economy, assuming that the economy will improve drastically as a result of this injection, and then take back the money (plus a load of interest) in 10 years or so. The countries then have to take out additional loans to pay back the interest and - long story short - nothing gets built, the economy remains stagnant, and they end up losing more money than they borrow, while the interest continues to mount. |
hey welcome to the world of economics.....what can i say but that is with anyone lending money...u lend money u add interest...in any country...you know that..come on....do u expect someone to give millions and say dont worry about it...pay it back "IF" u can get..but take your time and jus pay us the original amount?...impossible.,...if that where to happen NOONE would gain...and thats what econmics comes down to ..personal gain...not jus with America but with any person loaning money...
go buy a car...if u make payments on it and during the time of your payment making it crashes and u cantd rive it anymore...does your bank you make payments to say "hey dont worry about it..u crashed u dont have to pay for it anymore"...of course they would not say that...a bank is in the business of making money for its corporation while helping you...and America is lending money to lesser countries to help them but also to gain money ourselves...
| quote: | Originally posted by Renegade
the Red Cross is brilliant, and whoever supports these causes deserves to be congratulated. |
the Red Cross does a ty job at helping people....if u need to know why i will tell u...but i dont wanna get into that...but it is very well known that the American Red Cross is a joke of an organization that in actually s people more then they help.....and if it wasnt for the U.S. government..George Bush actually stepping in not too long ago the Red Cross would of continued to operate in the ty manor in which they where.
| quote: | Originally posted by Renegade
As annoyed as you may be right now at having these opinions merely raised, try and live with having these opinions forcefully fed to you. Don't try and tell me you'd be happy being "policed" in such a way. |
dotn have to...why?..because i live in a free country...thats why...
you are OBVIOUSLY anti-America...and thats cool...but heres an idea...dont coem here..and u will be better off....but u say u live here sometimes...WHY?/.../why are you here?....please tel me why your here |
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| Renegade |
I'll leave everything else for another time because it's 5.30am and I have to be up in 5 hours, but:
| quote: | | you are OBVIOUSLY anti-America...and thats cool...but heres an idea...dont coem here..and u will be better off....but u say u live here sometimes...WHY?/.../why are you here?....please tel me why your here |
Firstly, as I said before, I am not anti-American. I just happen to oppose much of the US governments foreign policy. That's not to say I disagree with everything the US government has done, as they have done many good things over the years (even though, I suspect, much of that was out of self-interest anyway). However, you cannot dismiss everything that I have raised and that 90% of the world external to America has raised, on the basis of them being "anti-American". Even if they (or I) am anti-American, then perhaps you should be looking at why this is so, and saving yourselves the danger of more events like 11/9.
Secondly, I do not live in America, never have and never said that I did. Even so, even if I had, it would not change the opposition I direct act the decisions made by the US government. That's what being objective amounts to. |
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| mos man |
Guys look we have all had our 2 cents on this thread, wether you are anti American or not or whatever your views focus upon I say we all stop posting because at the end of the day everyone has their own opinionated theories and noone is 100% correct, I am even saying this about renegades posts which I beleive are incredibly astute and well thought out but still this is getting anywhere is it ?
:thepirate |
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| JohnSmith |
well.. your right mos man, but still, i'm learning, from renegades post. other people are learning from reading it.
tiesto14, that was quite possibly the dumbest post i have ever read on this board, or any other, on this subject, and i have read a lot.
you made so many mistakes, i don't know where to begin. i could research, dig up links for you, and make you look like an utter fool with logic. but, i won't, it would be a waste of time.
suffice to say, that you have no clue what you are talking about, and your opinion is worth less than the time it took me to berate you for it. |
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| tiesto14 |
| quote: | Originally posted by JohnSmith
tiesto14, that was quite possibly the dumbest post i have ever read on this board, or any other, on this subject, and i have read a lot.
you made so many mistakes, i don't know where to begin. i could research, dig up links for you, and make you look like an utter fool with logic. but, i won't, it would be a waste of time.
suffice to say, that you have no clue what you are talking about, and your opinion is worth less than the time it took me to berate you for it. |
hhhmmm i never heard that before...an opinion thats worthless...anyway...SHOW ME...SHOW ME WHERE I AM WRONG...dont say that without backing it up...i will wait for u
and how ing dare u call what i say dumb..u dotn agree FINE..thats cool with me...but its people that u that ALWAYS turn these threads into flames..... |
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| tiesto14 |
| atleast Renegade will say where he thinks i am wrong...u jus have freaken insults....u really pissed me off with that.,..u couldnt resist a flame war could u... |
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| sothis |
| quote: | | However, as I said earlier in the thread, you seem to be taking personal offence to what I have to say about your government and its policies, and I'm not quite sure why. If I have offended you then I am sorry, and it wasn't my intention, but you have to learn to separate yourself from the country that represents you, and understand that they are not necessarily doing the right thing. |
i do, because some peopel DO make it personal. you might not be doing so, but some people phrase their responses in the form of personally attacking all americans.
if you go back you will see in one of my first posts, i say 'i never said i dont disagree with some of the actions of this country".
and johnsmith, id like to see facts too, because i agree with 95% of what tiesto14 said in that long response. i was nodding my head as i was reading it because i agree. so,
| quote: | | suffice to say, that you have no clue what you are talking about, and your opinion is worth less than the time it took me to berate you for it. |
this has to include me too, because i mirror tiesto14s thoughts. |
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