Ok so what are you saying its more about the sound rather than the idea?
Just to clarify.
Looney4Clooney
just jack bauer it man. get it done. 24 hours. Stakes are high. Make a track.
Beatflux
quote:
Originally posted by DJ Robby Rox
Ok so what are you saying its more about the sound rather than the idea?
Just to clarify.
Pryda's style is to base a track off of one idea, and add/subtract other ideas around it to create a progression of the track. Pjanoo doesn't really stand out in terms of composition, but the production of the whole thing is really top notch. He uses a lot of automation to keep the track interesting, and he doesn't really try to create dramatic compositional changes.
For example: he will automate the high hats to increase in volume over the span of the entire chorus.
His tracks feel like they are either expanding or contracting, there really aren't any moments where the track is at a standstill and you start getting bored.
It's not always about shuffling one new idea over another, but taking an idea and evolving it and reinterpreting it.
I'm not saying everyone should copy Pryda, but he's definately someone to study and learn from.
-FSP-
Dude. Just make a track already.
Use presets. Use your own sounds. Use samples. Use whatever. Whatever it takes to make a new song. There is no right or wrong method to making a song. Just make one. Don't worry about how it sounds. Don't make songs in your head cause that'll take too long unless you know for sure you can put it down on the sequencer asap. I would say that it's very important to work fast and efficiently to jot ideas down asap.
Don't worry about creativity either, because I guarantee you everyone is a perversion of their influences and are most likely lame. I'm not being negative, I'm just trying to free you from false expectations.
What's the worst thing that will happen? Other people won't like your music. You won't like your song. That's it. It's not the end of the world. Just make songs, work fast, work around your tools (you aren't going to make an epic trance saw lead with a tb-303 for example, so you're pretty much a slave to your tools and your knowledge of them), take it one step at a time.
EddieZilker
It's like in Forza 4. You can test drive all the cars, working out different configurations for each of the tracks but you really won't ever get anything done until you get into a real race.
Well, a simulated race but it's actually simulated racing rather than simulated practice - but you get the idea.
DJ Robby Rox
Just a teaser but yeh this track is really nice.
I told myself I'm keeping it basic basic basic and that is exactly what I need to do for now on. Simple driving beats and just slowly building/mixing the tracks direction.
I also feel like I learned how to use fx lol I'm learning some incredibly basic I never really realized before consciously which is how important the order of fxs actually is. For so long I was doing stupid like putting reverb before filter and now I'm seeing its reverb after filter for those huge trance sounds. I don't know why I never realized this as being a standard rule and have been doing it backwards for years. I really was doing stupid .
I also do filter or equal first then delay, then reverb, then compressor or limiter (rarely both). I never had a specific order like this in my fx and once again that was ing up my mixes.
Most of all I started incorporating limiting in a lot of my sounds and never did this before thinking it would result in squashed sound. Also partly cause I *thought I didn't know how to limit sounds properly. I'm finding theres really not a whole lot to limiting. Its just ing cieling and gain. And I'm also finding you can push the gain quite a bit getting a more natural sound and if you lower the cieling of course once again the sounds become big. I'm keeping the sounds low and using delay properly so the limiter now pushes up the tail of the delay or reverb.
Man I honestly just haven't been comprehending mixing the right way. This track sounds very tasty but simple. Now its just a matter of panning and getting the groove nice and tight and I think I'll have this up by next tues hopefully. Just want to do some extra work on my day off then plan on getting this bitch up. Limiting has become my new best friend now that I have an order that works for me I finally feel like I know what I'm doing. I'm not squashing my sounds either you can definitely tell theres a point where they no longer sound "tense" or "present" and just become like a pancake. I always use to hear delay in pro tracks and think "how can I hear the delay effect so loudly"? As you hear this a lot in trance the delay sometimes sound like it goes on forever. I knew this was limiting but once again just was afraid of ing with it. I just really thought it was a good way to ruin sounds so never limited a lot. But now I'm finding a lot of my sounds are present and exactly where I want them... odd. Getting that longer drift really matters a lot. Be back soon.
DJ RANN
quote:
Originally posted by DJ Robby Rox
Just a teaser but yeh this track is really nice.
I told myself I'm keeping it basic basic basic and that is exactly what I need to do for now on. Simple driving beats and just slowly building/mixing the tracks direction.
I also feel like I learned how to use fx lol I'm learning some incredibly basic I never really realized before consciously which is how important the order of fxs actually is. For so long I was doing stupid like putting reverb before filter and now I'm seeing its reverb after filter for those huge trance sounds. I don't know why I never realized this as being a standard rule and have been doing it backwards for years. I really was doing stupid .
I also do filter or equal first then delay, then reverb, then compressor or limiter (rarely both). I never had a specific order like this in my fx and once again that was ing up my mixes.
Most of all I started incorporating limiting in a lot of my sounds and never did this before thinking it would result in squashed sound. Also partly cause I *thought I didn't know how to limit sounds properly. I'm finding theres really not a whole lot to limiting. Its just ing cieling and gain. And I'm also finding you can push the gain quite a bit getting a more natural sound and if you lower the cieling of course once again the sounds become big. I'm keeping the sounds low and using delay properly so the limiter now pushes up the tail of the delay or reverb.
Man I honestly just haven't been comprehending mixing the right way. This track sounds very tasty but simple. Now its just a matter of panning and getting the groove nice and tight and I think I'll have this up by next tues hopefully. Just want to do some extra work on my day off then plan on getting this bitch up. Limiting has become my new best friend now that I have an order that works for me I finally feel like I know what I'm doing. I'm not squashing my sounds either you can definitely tell theres a point where they no longer sound "tense" or "present" and just become like a pancake. I always use to hear delay in pro tracks and think "how can I hear the delay effect so loudly"? As you hear this a lot in trance the delay sometimes sound like it goes on forever. I knew this was limiting but once again just was afraid of ing with it. I just really thought it was a good way to ruin sounds so never limited a lot. But now I'm finding a lot of my sounds are present and exactly where I want them... odd. Getting that longer drift really matters a lot. Be back soon.
Glad to hear there has been a milestone of improvement for you, so a couple of things Robby:
1, PONY UP. You've been cock-teasing about this track for way too long.
2, I'm really not having a crack, but what you've describing is indicative of a lot of your previous issues;
They all stem from you being at one point with a porblem and not understanding what the issue is, then people telling you to take a few steps back and look at it in a simpler, easier mothod.
It's just like the soundcard thing a while back - you tried everything to figure out what the damn problem could be, and frankly it was shouting for your attention, and is one of the first things you need to address as part of a DAW system.
Again, i don't meant to dredge it up to have a go, it's just an example of you needing to look at what you're doing and see the problem staring you in the face.
For instance, from what you're writing, you're just discovering signal flow. That was literally the first, and most important lesson we were taught at engineering school. In fact if you are to remember just one aspect of engineering, it's signal flow. Going from source, to gain, to eq, to inserts, to sends (or PFL), to fader is the basis for all tracking and mixing.
Also, the other thing I'm seeing, more so by your unintended omission of it, is that the reason your delays are sounding good is not limiting as such - I believe it because you don't have a million things with long tails going in this new track - it's a more stripped down track, which mans your elements have space to breath, something that is vital for delay feedback to present clearly.
Granted it's not just about space between elements - the proper eq and signal flow etc, will also give you that, but simple elements, decent EQ and moderately used FX means you finally have space to hear things, and therefore all aspects of your mix will improve.
I don't quite know how you've missed these things - from what i've read on here, you've probably read more audio engineering books than I ever will, but you seem to have skipped over the fundamental, basic foundations.
My best advice to you Robby it to keep it all simple - keep the tracks, the sounds and the mix all simple and you'll find everything so much easier and it will sound better.
Looney4Clooney
and seperate the steps. Give yourself a deadline and your done.
24 hours sound design
24 hours for arrangement
24 hours for mix.
get clock pro for your iphone. Set up 3 project alarms.
now. The goal is not to make something good., The goal is to just finish something.
Since you use cracks, not judging , i used to, limit yourself to
Alchemy Electro house Drums
Synths - Sylenth and Zebra
FX
Only native daw fx
now do it.
DJ Robby Rox
Here fvckers. I can't take it anymore I have no idea if it really sounds good or not. I think I'm taking the limiting too far and it can sound a lot tighter/less distorted but obviously I tried to get it loud. I think where the pad starts to evolve I need to do some filtering and break the track down will see what happens tommorow.
I personally don't like it. And you know what Robby? That was the worst thing that can happen. A listener did not like your song. You aren't dead, you just have to get back to the drawing board.
Just finish something already though. Finish that song. Just finish something, you can do it.
As for limiting, I think you did way too much of it. Give the mix some headroom. You do not need to do too much when it comes to limiting, you probably don't even need to do much of it in the arrangement stage. What was your goal touching your limiting plugins anyways? Do not worry about loudness, you want everything to be clean and have room for everything. I think loudness should be the last thing you should focus on, just make sure everything is leveled, stay away from the red, and make sure instruments have room for each other.
Looney4Clooney
why do you only work on the intro after the bass drops. Finish. Unless it is 5 minutes long, don't post it. Just ing finish 1 track.
Kysora
I know you're trying to "perfect" your sound before really diving into songwriting and consistently finishing songs, but it's clearly not working, Robby. I'm honestly starting to get worried for you.
Think a few steps ahead, if you keep doing what you're doing right now. What's the best case scenario? You succeed, right? One day you'll be sitting down, staring at your DAW with your jaw on the floor, looking at the various channels and effects and all the other things you spent the last 6 hours tweaking. You'll watch them pump out the best bassline you've ever heard. You open it again two weeks later and, sure enough, it's still flawless. It's not just in your head, you share it with us and everyone is ing blown away. Finally after years of dedicated practice and frustration, you've accomplished what you set out to do.
..so, now what?
Seriously, Robby, now what? Is that it? Are you done producing? You reached your goal, so, what do you do with the end result?
I'm assuming you'd want to write a song around it, but really, do you think you're able to write a complete, cohesive musical idea that's worth pairing up with a bassline that's.. what, 5 years in the making? Maybe longer?
I've seen posts by you admiring Blueman and other artists for putting a lot of emotion into their tracks, but your samples.. no offense, but really, they don't convey any sort of message whatsoever. I'm sure you put them together more as an afterthought to highlight the bass, but have you written a complete song since the beginning of the year? Or the year before? Do you actually think, once you perfect the technical aspect of writing EDM, that the songwriting will just fall into place? It doesn't work like that, at all.
Don't take offense to any of this, I'm saying this as someone who wants to see you become a decent artist for all of your hard work. Everything you're doing is completely pointless if you have nothing to do with the end result of all of this work. The frustration you have, trying to make an amazing bassline? Imagine how frustrating it'll be when you FINALLY make one, but can't write a song to put it in if your life depends on it.
Just, write a song dude. Seriously. No more 3 minute long intros to songs that don't even conceptually exist. At least prove to yourself and the people who are still on your side around here that you have enough sensibility to apply this massive pile of production knowledge towards something that's worth all the aggravation and ranting.
