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The Real Reason Why Paul Oakenfold is Hated NOW [OAKENFOLD ESSENTIAL MIX 2006 THREAD] (pg. 11)
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| idoru |
| quote: | Originally posted by Orko
At what point are people being fooled, and at what point are people actually enjoying the music? When are people allowed to say they enjoy something without being told they are wrong and ignorant? I believe that you my friend do have a problem letting people be who they are, and letting people enjoy who they are.
From your postings over the years, it does seem that you believe in the old train of thought, the old days of 'raving'. Come out, be who are you, enjoy the music, just don't praise the DJ, because thats not what its about. To me, part of that old world thinking tells us to let people be who they are. As long as they are enjoying the music, who is getting hurt? Who are you to decide, that these people who so helplessly believe Oakey was their hero, are infact delusianal?
No Oakenfold didn't have the mixing skills of those DMC champs. But, when the hell do those DJs play Brainchild - "Symmetry C [Lange Breakbeat Mix]" in its entirety? Yes, the DMC champs can mix records, but they don't play trance, and they do not have the new records that people want to hear.
What did Oakey do what was so special?
He played what people wanted to hear. That is a DJs job, to be a crowd pleaser, and he did it better than anybody else. |
I think I love you. I couldn't have said it any better than that.  |
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| ArgentinaHouse |
| quote: | Originally posted by Ishkur
Who decides that those are "real bombs"? Magazines? Pete Tong? You? Are those tunes magically great before they played them, or after? Regardless of what the answer is, they still fall prey to the same marketing.
Why are those songs great? Because the DJ played them. Why did the DJ play them? Because they're great. The same circular argument.....many DJs and producers have taken advantage of this to release sets of just their own work or their friends work, pushing mediocre productions into the limelight. Is it about the music? Hell no, it's about money.
You want to know why trance music has gone down the ter? It's because right now there is a very tight-knit clique controlling the entire industry, and all they do is play each other's tunes, do interviews in each other's magazines, remix each other's works, star in each other's clubs and promote each other's careers. This cartel has propped up a virtual bottleneck far more insidious than even the RIAA-controlled pop music industry that you all so despise. They control what DJs you want to enjoy and what tunes you're going to hear on every radio station and club you visit that you're going to love, and they have betrayed, stagnated, and neutered the music beyond the the music to the point of listenability.
If you're alright with this practise, go on, keep doing what you're doing, but don't ever tell us who value a little more substance in our lives that we do not have a right to be angry. |
The premise of the entire thread is the music, which in the trance genre, has really hit the sewer. The people who decide which songs are the bombs are the audience, which of course is the reason why the majority of TA (ballpark guesswork) actually enjoyed the 1999 essential mix tour. You don't fall into the norm which is fine, no problem. Those days are gone, the argument which was stated a few posts above is that the local DJ's deserve the equal amount of respect as say, someone like sasha or digweed today. Obviously the local DJ's in this particular genre do not have the capacity to build sets with the same music of these artists. Trance seems to be the genre that has undergone the majority washout as far as productions. As far as mediocrity being pushed by superstar DJ's such as Luke Chable, ummm try telling him that Girl Nobody - Cages (Luke Chable Mix) is a mediocre tune , just because only Shiloh plays it and let's say DJ John Doe from Alabama's local pub doesnt have that tune. Or better yet tell Derek Howell that his song is mediocre because only Opencloud is allowed to play The Alley Qats - Lo Tek (Opencloud's Glowing Green Light Mix). If this was about money, then trust me...the scene would be much worse. Trance Genre doesnt have this advantage anymore and Paul Oakenfold, the central figure as he once was, doesnt have the capacity to collect rare music as he once did. As I stated before, I really do believe local DJ's really dont deserve the same recognition as say artists who huddle together to put together sets such as for instance, the group of derek howell.....derek howell, peter martin, ray romero, opencloud, joshua michael, and even recently terje bakke aka skooma aka pilot, .....who share the music between them only. Thats whats define them.......hell thats what makes the DJ rise.
Not all this whining about why a local dj deserves this fame or the same glory as these guys. Trust me...these producers I've stated are far from selfish. If They Want fame....fast....its going to have to be through the main channel: original productions. |
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| Nayil |
hey ishkur.... all of ur problems would be solved if u can kill all the Great Djs.
i think ur thoughts are so deep is because ur probably experiencing some bad buzz (alcohol/drugs related)... that shows u the negatives of reality.... which we can live without if not u. |
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| Allied Nations |
| quote: | Originally posted by ArgentinaHouse
The premise of the entire thread is the music, which in the trance genre, has really hit the sewer. The people who decide which songs are the bombs are the audience, which of course is the reason why the majority of TA (ballpark guesswork) actually enjoyed the 1999 essential mix tour. You don't fall into the norm which is fine, no problem. Those days are gone, the argument which was stated a few posts above is that the local DJ's deserve the equal amount of respect as say, someone like sasha or digweed today. Obviously the local DJ's in this particular genre do not have the capacity to build sets with the same music of these artists. Trance seems to be the genre that has undergone the majority washout as far as productions. As far as mediocrity being pushed by superstar DJ's such as Luke Chable, ummm try telling him that Girl Nobody - Cages (Luke Chable Mix) is a mediocre tune , just because only Shiloh plays it and let's say DJ John Doe from Alabama's local pub doesnt have that tune. Or better yet tell Derek Howell that his song is mediocre because only Opencloud is allowed to play The Alley Qats - Lo Tek (Opencloud's Glowing Green Light Mix). If this was about money, then trust me...the scene would be much worse. Trance Genre doesnt have this advantage anymore and Paul Oakenfold, the central figure as he once was, doesnt have the capacity to collect rare music as he once did. As I stated before, I really do believe local DJ's really dont deserve the same recognition as say artists who huddle together to put together sets such as for instance, the group of derek howell.....derek howell, peter martin, ray romero, opencloud, joshua michael, and even recently terje bakke aka skooma aka pilot, .....who share the music between them only. Thats whats define them.......hell thats what makes the DJ rise.
Not all this whining about why a local dj deserves this fame or the same glory as these guys. Trust me...these producers I've stated are far from selfish. If They Want fame....fast....its going to have to be through the main channel: original productions. |
I really do disagree with this. I'm not a local DJ because I have no hometown really, just been moving around the world, playing shows when I can and let me tell you. It's not about IDs or unsigned tunes... It's about knowing your roots and stringing together a great set which is about good tunes- not unsigned stuff and exclusive stuff. It's all about good music. OK, I agree, it's great to hear fresh stuff... but I guarnatee you if I start dopping stuff from pre2002 in a set, the majority of the people in the club aren't going to have a ing clue. I have 30 years of dance music to wade through- Why should I only care about the last 3 months? I know for a fact a lot of the prog house djs and whatnot have a clique.. they all send their tunes around, they all have the "exclusive" tunes, but it's really a bunch of e. Is there a reason a lot of these IDs and Unsigned tunes never get signed? Why would you want to do that to music fans? There's always been a snobbish attitude the people with the unreleased tunes have for the most part.. and it's a serious buzzkill. I get sent promos, sure, but I'm not going to not write up a TL for a set of min or have a TL full of ID - ID... That's not how it should be. |
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| ArgentinaHouse |
| quote: | Originally posted by Allied Nations
I really do disagree with this. I'm not a local DJ because I have no hometown really, just been moving around the world, playing shows when I can and let me tell you. It's not about IDs or unsigned tunes... It's about knowing your roots and stringing together a great set which is about good tunes- not unsigned stuff and exclusive stuff. It's all about good music. OK, I agree, it's great to hear fresh stuff... but I guarnatee you if I start dopping stuff from pre2002 in a set, the majority of the people in the club aren't going to have a ing clue. I have 30 years of dance music to wade through- Why should I only care about the last 3 months? I know for a fact a lot of the prog house djs and whatnot have a clique.. they all send their tunes around, they all have the "exclusive" tunes, but it's really a bunch of e. Is there a reason a lot of these IDs and Unsigned tunes never get signed? Why would you want to do that to music fans? There's always been a snobbish attitude the people with the unreleased tunes have for the most part.. and it's a serious buzzkill. I get sent promos, sure, but I'm not going to not write up a TL for a set of min or have a TL full of ID - ID... That's not how it should be. |
I completely understand you buddy.
But the argument focused on in the other page was basically centered on the superstar djs (top 10 of dj mag) example...
Thats what you have just argued against, thats the reason why they are Super DJ's. Digweed, sasha, hernan c especially [the newest music coupled with mixing]
unfortunately for the trance genre itself its all popularity now....(avb,tiesto holding the upper tier of the top slots) |
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| Allied Nations |
| quote: | Originally posted by ArgentinaHouse
I completely understand you buddy.
But the argument focused on in the other page was basically centered on the superstar djs (top 10 of dj mag) example...
That what you have just argued against, thats the reason why they are Super DJ's. Digweed, sasha, hernan c especially
unfortunately for the trance genre itself its all popularity now....(avb,tiesto holding the upper tier of the top slots) |
Yeah I see that- My argument is that any Dj especially now can put together an AMAZING set... they just have to want to do it. I'm sure in Oakie's heyday it wasn't as easy to put together the sets he put together... He had his finger on the pulse so to speak- getting all of what was hot...
I am really indifferent to Oakenfold- He has done a lot for the scene, I appreciate all of that- but for me, there are people who have been more influential to me as a fan of the music and a dj. Most of these guys are local DJs from where I started clubbing. |
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| Ko/Lute |
Sometimes I wonder if people even realize the idiotry that comes out of their own heads. "Oh i'm sure it wasn't easy for Oakenfold to get all of what was hot in his heyday." ing jokes.
It's always easy to get what is hot. It's always harder to get what is not hot. |
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| Allied Nations |
| quote: | Originally posted by Ko/Lute
Sometimes I wonder if people even realize the idiotry that comes out of their own heads. "Oh i'm sure it wasn't easy for Oakenfold to get all of what was hot in his heyday." ing jokes.
It's always easy to get what is hot. It's always harder to get what is not hot. |
I don't know--- Maybe you are right- but to get what WILL be hot, and make it hot... is a different thing. he was getting all the tunes before anyone else so he had to decide what he was going to play and what was going to get shelved- and it seems like for the most part in th 1995-2000 part of his career he made the right choices. |
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| paranoik0 |
| quote: | Originally posted by ArgentinaHouse
considering many of those songs have No id til this day....and many on that tracklist still have been unreleased |
and who ing cares about that apart from fanboys on the internet that download tons of sets?
being a good dj doesn't have *anything* to do with playing super-ultra-pre-unreleased music. do you think the people back then who were enjoying oakie's tour shows on the dancefloor gave a about the tunes being impossible to find? |
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| Allied Nations |
| quote: | Originally posted by paranoik0
and who ing cares about that apart from fanboys on the internet that download tons of sets?
being a good dj doesn't have *anything* to do with playing super-ultra-pre-unreleased music. do you think the people back then who were enjoying oakie's tour shows on the dancefloor gave a about the tunes being impossible to find? |
I agree with you- But I bet maybe 5% of his fans at that time were going nuts trying to ID what he was playing...
The same as now, we just have a forum where a large portion of those 5%ers can come and talk to one another from anywhere in the world.
EDIT: 5% is completely made up- I have no basis, I am just trying to say a small majority, with my estimate being 5% from my experience talking to people who go to shows and how many I think would heavily pursue finding the tunes the DJ played. |
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| MichaelBoogerd! |
| quote: | Originally posted by Allied Nations
I agree with you- But I bet maybe 5% of his fans at that time were going nuts trying to ID what he was playing...
The same as now, we just have a forum where a large portion of those 5%ers can come and talk to one another from anywhere in the world.
EDIT: 5% is completely made up- I have no basis, I am just trying to say a small majority, with my estimate being 5% from my experience talking to people who go to shows and how many I think would heavily pursue finding the tunes the DJ played. |
Holds hand up as a 5%er...
I'd like to add while IDs in sets will never make a DJ any good technically... playing exclusive music does make it interesting to seasoned clubbers/trainspotters.
For example, the recent Armin Only and some recent sets from B-list trance DJs they ALL play the same tunes. Today's market is as such that if you hear a great tune one week, you go and download it the next... thats life. But it does affect your appreciation of the same record say maybe 2 months down the line. i.e. overplayed, or just simply over its initial buzz.
That, for me, is what has changed in the 5-6 years since Oakey's peak in popularity... people have far more access to tunes that were previously unavailable longer because internet and whatever didn't exist. Oakey stood out because he wasn't playing so formulaic what everyone else was playing - and as with every popular trend in any hobby - this made him a far more interesting dj as a result.
Armin is a DJ i have never enjoyed seeing live because in a liveset it is very rare for him to play any interesting unheard of music. The same is said for ETN DJs, trance b-list etc. They are all playing the same 2-3 released records that week. The scene is stale and it is because these guys all spin the same every week.
How much credit can you give Oakey for finding unreleased or tunes with potential in the 90's? I'd rather assume that producers were throwing their track over to him, and he had a natural talent to champion the right ones.
The only difference now is he is not in as much contact with the leading producers anymore. He doesnt have the time to study all the new releases and pick whats hot etc. I think that Oakey in this respect has lost his position to Tiesto... Now producers are keen to send their new to him, and he enjoys that sense of exclusive playlist.
I'm not saying that makes any of them great DJs... but it does give them an edge (in terms of interest) from my type of EDM-fan. The kind that has a large HD of tunes on his PC and wants to hear something a little different than just the latest released material on beatport/juno.
ps. On another note - DJs having a clique of producers who they rely heavily on is hardly something new to present day. You could argue almost every DJ has their favourite producers that they receive and play almost all their works. That a clique of DJs turned producers (or the other way around) form together and share tunes among one another... WTF does that matter? |
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| SYSTEM-J |
| quote: | Originally posted by Nayil
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It's Cthulhu. |
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