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The Official 2006/2007 Toronto Raptors & NBA Thread (pg. 24)
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| Sly_Guy |
| quote: | Originally posted by MarkT
true...but I think Sam's decision ends with the ball being in TJ's hands. i.e. I highly doubt he specifially called for Ford to shoot or even wanted that as the primary option...that's TJ's decision to drive, shoot or pass.
meh...I guess that's all speculation on my part :p
Calderon had the hotter hand tonight (nevermind shooting 53% vs. TJ's 44% on the season) and putting in Ford *right* at the end struck me as pointless.
oh well...here's hoping they can score home court advantage for the playoffs! |
I didn't know exactly who to quote before chiming in with my Sam comments so I just added this one.
First off, the game for miami was one of the poorest coaching choices I'd seen in a long time and I tend to agree that it goes against Sam's case of being rehired next year. The strength of the Raps offense is that the defense does not know where to defend us. Everyone is willing to take and make an open shot meaning they've gotta defend 5 moving spots on the floo rather than a single player driving to the basket. Running an isolation set for a struggling [albeit fairly good] backcourt player when clearly he was being outperformed by his own substitution is 2 bad choices in one. Furthermore, the speed in which the play developed indicated poor coaching as well. 26 second left down 1 with the ball, you should be looking for the first good look. Not the first look in general. Secondly, considering we were on the road at the front end of a back to back, common basketball wisdom is to hold for last shot, because playing overtime on the road in back to backs is not advisable, yet we still rushed the shot up, looking almost for a 2 for one with a 2 second difference in shot and game clock.
All that being said, this season Sam has always gone to either Bosh or Ford in late game iso scenarios, against the strengths of our team. Being able to motivate your troops is one thing, costing them games down the stretch is another.
Beyond that, you could argue that the raps are under poor leadership all the time and not just short clock settings. Back in Janurary on one of the raps broadcasts [don't forget exactly which] I believe it was Jack who said it was strange that no one could figure out how to stop the [then surging] Raptor's offense. Instead of explaining it as the ability to share the ball, as I'd expected, he noted that the raps were running maybe 3 offensive sets only. But because of the fact that they all can shoot you can't cheat on screens, or double team effectively, so the odds are either 1 of 4 people will be open at some point, or you can get an iso for bosh and he can go work on a usually inferior player. That being said, they're more effective because of their personelle rather than creativity of offense. Couple that with our struggles on defense all season long and you get a clearer picture as to why people are calling for Sam not to be rehired.
Of and don't believe any of the Major American press organizations on why the raps are doing well. It should be really apparent to any of you who see some out of market games that because the raps don't get any national coverage down there they know very little about us. The most I've heard them do was call out our stat lines with no insight as to why the we have won the number of games we have.
And Luke Jackson will not be a raptor for long. Unless of course we clear room [via mo pete] by trading defense for offense, which is questionable given our defensive capabilities as a team. Remember Andrea is coming back and he'll be taking most of those minutes Mo Pete / Jackson were playing because I have a feeling Joey Graham and Humphries may keep their time the way they've been crashing the glass recently.
But I've now become a slightly more optimistic fan regardless, but it has a lot more to do with Agent 0 and Caron Butler being out for the season than anything the raps have done recently.
Anyway, they'd better win today, and win big.....I'm kinda in the mood for free pizza. |
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| MarkT |
^^^ I think the concensus is that MoPete is gone next year.
Luke Jackson is an adequate replacement, given that he'll be available at half (or less) of what MoPete will expect. I would be surprised to not see him in camp next year.
I think coaches get too much credit (and take too much blame) for what actually goes on during a game. Sure they call plays, sure they decide who's in at whatever time, but it's the players who have to execute.
Sam has, at the very least, helped keep everyone happy...there's no one complaining, no locker room dissent, no cliques, nada. Management deserves some credit there too, for bringing in the right people.
Really though...if people think Sam should go...then who should be brought in? Do you feel that Sam's shortcomings exceed the possible turmoil of brining in ANOTHER new coach? If we give players like Ford the benefit of the doubt (i.e. he's young, learning to be an NBA PG, etc), shouldn't Sam get that same learning curve opportunity? It's indisputable that he's a better head coach than he was when he first took over ;) |
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| EvilTree |
| quote: | Originally posted by MarkT
^^^ I think the concensus is that MoPete is gone next year.
Luke Jackson is an adequate replacement, given that he'll be available at half (or less) of what MoPete will expect. I would be surprised to not see him in camp next year.
I think coaches get too much credit (and take too much blame) for what actually goes on during a game. Sure they call plays, sure they decide who's in at whatever time, but it's the players who have to execute.
Sam has, at the very least, helped keep everyone happy...there's no one complaining, no locker room dissent, no cliques, nada. Management deserves some credit there too, for bringing in the right people.
Really though...if people think Sam should go...then who should be brought in? Do you feel that Sam's shortcomings exceed the possible turmoil of brining in ANOTHER new coach? If we give players like Ford the benefit of the doubt (i.e. he's young, learning to be an NBA PG, etc), shouldn't Sam get that same learning curve opportunity? It's indisputable that he's a better head coach than he was when he first took over ;) |
You can have a star studded team, but without a good coach for directions, they'll never be a winning team. (New York anyone?) |
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| MarkT |
^^^ very true.
Although then you look at someone like Phil Jackson or Pat Riley...both great coaches, but are they *really* responsible for their team winning/losing a game...or are they responsible for maintaining an atmosphere where their talented players can thrive and co-exist? A bit of both, I suppose...I'm just disappointed at seeing a lack of love for Sam. I think he has a great future as a good coach.
College coaches are 'good coaches'...but none in recent memory have been able to replicate their NCAA success in the NBA. I think it's very much about managing egos and playing time than drawing up plays. There aren't too many 'surprise plays' that no other team has ever seen...but that's me talking out of my ass...I'm not an NBA coach and can't really say for sure :D
New York is a roller coaster because those egos can't be managed...you have Starbury thinking he's the best PG in the game...and a bunch of players who all think they are 'the man'...management who brings in talent without considering how the players will gel...etc. I don't think there's a coach in the league who can instantly 'fix' the Knicks, lol. |
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| jon jon |
| a lot of you guys know A LOT about basketball, holy |
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| EvilTree |
| quote: | Originally posted by jon jon
a lot of you guys know A LOT about basketball, holy |
We have no lives... ;)
(hence why the word fan is a short form for 'fanatic') :D |
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| Sly_Guy |
| quote: | Originally posted by MarkT
but are they *really* responsible for their team winning/losing a game...or are they responsible for maintaining an atmosphere where their talented players can thrive and co-exist? |
This may be the case in the recent past for the NBA, as since Jordan came into his own in the NBA, every team went looking for their marketable 'star'. As a result the most talented players adopted egos almost as a birthright, making the coach not just a guy who diagrams the plays, but one who manages the relations of the players on his roster.
But it wasn't too long ago that you could go out and see a game with scores in the 110's-120's without OT. Players less concerned with their touches makes them more likely to pass the ball up for an open shot. It was a team mentality before, and with the top teams being SA, Phx, Dal, Det, and even if we wanted to put the Raps and Bulls in that category we could, the game is slowly becoming a team game again. With that, the role of the coach is again becoming more important. I've always been a supporter of the coaches role being that of organizing the method in which we play, not to be a psychiatrist for the dysfuntional, spoiled members of their team.
Sure Kobe's incredible, but where are the Lakers? 5 beats 1, everytime.
EDIT
| quote: | Originally posted by EvilTree
You can have a star studded team, but without a good coach for directions, they'll never be a winning team. (New York anyone?) |
This is the first time I think you and I are on the same side of a basketball discussion, haha. |
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| MarkT |
| quote: | Originally posted by Sly_Guy
This may be the case in the recent past for the NBA, as since Jordan came into his own in the NBA, every team went looking for their marketable 'star'. As a result the most talented players adopted egos almost as a birthright, making the coach not just a guy who diagrams the plays, but one who manages the relations of the players on his roster.
But it wasn't too long ago that you could go out and see a game with scores in the 110's-120's without OT. Players less concerned with their touches makes them more likely to pass the ball up for an open shot. It was a team mentality before, and with the top teams being SA, Phx, Dal, Det, and even if we wanted to put the Raps and Bulls in that category we could, the game is slowly becoming a team game again. With that, the role of the coach is again becoming more important. I've always been a supporter of the coaches role being that of organizing the method in which we play, not to be a psychiatrist for the dysfuntional, spoiled members of their team.
Sure Kobe's incredible, but where are the Lakers? 5 beats 1, everytime.
EDIT
This is the first time I think you and I are on the same side of a basketball discussion, haha. |
I agree with all of that too...it is refreshing to see that the top teams are the ones who not only have a star or two...or even a decent starting lineup...but depth and coaches who actually involve all players on the court in their offense and defense.
I can't stand watching Kobe, Arenas and, to a lesser extent until he joining Denver, Iverson. Sure, they're *incredibly* talented players, but b-ball is a team game and watching 4 guys stand around while one guy runs the entire offense is not what I enjoy watching. As long as they play the way they do, I actually wish for their teams to fail (as they are doing).
The refs could ease up on the whistles for superstars too...watching Wade get every ing foul call imagineable, especially when there not only negligible contact, but no contact at all, is sickening. |
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| infinity HiGH |
| quote: | Originally posted by MarkT
I can't stand watching Kobe, Arenas and, to a lesser extent until he joining Denver, Iverson. Sure, they're *incredibly* talented players, but b-ball is a team game and watching 4 guys stand around while one guy runs the entire offense is not what I enjoy watching. As long as they play the way they do, I actually wish for their teams to fail (as they are doing).
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I used to always hate Kobe for these reasons, but lately I've actually turned into a Kobe fan just because of how talented he is. You can't put Arenas, or any other player for that matter, in the same sentence as Kobe.
Outside of that though, I agree with everything you said. I like to watch TEAMS play, not just one guy (outside of Kobe).
A little O/T, but anyone else nervous about tonights game? |
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| MarkT |
I was nervous until the 2nd half :D
it looks like the curse of the Bulls is officially over :)
I'm already excited for next season...after some playoff experience and more time playing together, the Raps will be that much better! |
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| infinity HiGH |
| quote: | Originally posted by infinity HiGH
A little O/T, but anyone else nervous about tonights game? |
so much for that :D |
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| MarkT |
| bonus...Miami just lost in OT to Charlotte ;) |
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