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The Official 2006/2007 Toronto Raptors & NBA Thread (pg. 50)
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| SuperJimbo |
| quote: | Originally posted by jon jon
lol you're 0/2 with me today, first you hate on my sopranos and now my raps... who's next? my girlfriend? hahah |
LOL. Seriously. Better hope he doesn't show up at Hotel tonight and spit at you during your set.
:nervous: |
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| infinity HiGH |
LOL did you guys hear about Vince?
Link
| quote: | | Carter, whose current contract calls for him to make just over $16 million next season, is believed to be asking for a three-year deal worth as much as $20million a year. Last week, Nets president Rod Thorn said there is a "difference in what we perceive to be fair and what he perceives to be fair," |
20 Million!! :haha: |
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| MarkT |
| quote: | Originally posted by SuperJimbo
Whatever man, Kobe has three rings. And don't tell me his championships were all about Shaq. Shaq, like all great players who win championships, needed a sidekick/superstar like Kobe or Wade to get it done.
To win a championship you generally need a minimum of 2, if not 3, great players. You also need a dominant/unstoppable scorer in crunch time, which I don't think Bosh will ever be. Perhaps Bargnani will develop into one, but who knows?
Anyway, check out the champs since 1990:
2005-06 - Miami: Wade, Shaq
2004-05 - San Antonio: Duncan
2003-04 - Detroit: (No real superstar, but rather an amazing team)
2002-03 - San Antonio: Duncan, Robinson
2001-02 - Los Angeles: Shaq, Kobe
2000-01 - Los Angeles: Shaq, Kobe
1999-20 - Los Angeles: Shaq, Kobe
1998-99 - San Antonio: Duncan, Robinson
1997-98 - Chicago: Jordan, Pippen, Rodman
1996-97 - Chicago: Jordan, Pippen, Rodman
1995-96 - Chicago: Jordan, Pippen, Rodman
1994-95 - Houston: Olajuwon, Drexler
1993-94 - Houston: Olajuwon
1992-93 - Chicago: Jordan, Pippen
1991-92 - Chicago: Jordan, Pippen
1990-91 - Chicago: Jordan, Pippen
1989-1990 - Detroit: Thomas, Dumars, Rodman
1988-1989 - Detroit: Thomas, Dumars, Rodman
(Note: As a side bar, it is interesting how many times great teams repeat.)
Anyway, Kobe plus Bosh and solid supporting cast would be enough to win a championship, IMO. If Kobe would agree to it (obviously a big if), I think Colangelo would do it. And if he did, I seriously doubt you would boycott the team, especially when they started winning. Nice try. :rolleyes: |
re-read my post...you basically agreed with me that Kobe can't do it alone.
| quote: | Originally posted by MarkT
...there's a reason those guys aren't seeing their teams succeed until they've amended their approach or added other legit players (Washington and Antawn and Butler, Denver has Carmelo, Camby, Nene).
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my point, which wasn't clear, is that Washington has multiple legit players, but injuries killed them in the playoffs, and Denver has progressed with the Iverson deal, but that team needs time to gel. While the Lakers have done jack , although suffered many injuries (Mihm, Odom, etc.), and then Kobe just takes over, which only goes so far...so either Kobe (and Phil!) *forces* other players to get involved and lets them up a lot until they find a groove in the offense or the Lakers will continue to lose, unless they add another legit player or two.
I didn't say that Kobe can't help bring a championship here, I said that *I* don't like watching him play and that *I* prefer to watch teams with a balanced attack vs. ONE player being the perpetual #1 scoring option.
keep in mind that most of those championship teams also had other talented starters too and capable benches...it wasn't just about 2-3 stars or a dominant clutch player. |
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| SuperJimbo |
| quote: | Originally posted by MarkT
re-read my post...you basically agreed with me that Kobe can't do it alone.
my point, which wasn't clear, is that Washington has multiple legit players, but injuries killed them in the playoffs, and Denver has progressed with the Iverson deal, but that team needs time to gel. While the Lakers have done jack , although suffered many injuries (Mihm, Odom, etc.), and then Kobe just takes over, which only goes so far...so either Kobe (and Phil!) *forces* other players to get involved and lets them up a lot until they find a groove in the offense or the Lakers will continue to lose, unless they add another legit player or two.
I didn't say that Kobe can't help bring a championship here, I said that *I* don't like watching him play and that *I* prefer to watch teams with a balanced attack vs. ONE player being the perpetual #1 scoring option.
keep in mind that most of those championship teams also had other talented starters too and capable benches...it wasn't just about 2-3 stars or a dominant clutch player. |
Fair enough. The three things I took from your earlier post were:
(1) Colangelo would never trade for Kobe, or a "selfish" guy like Kobe - I disagree.
(2) You believe that "great individual talents" can't win on their own - I fully agree, however that's why I think the trade makes sense to pair Kobe with Bosh (+ a solid supporting cast that I am confident Colangelo could assemble).
(3) You would boycott the Raps if they traded for Kobe - I know you were probably just kidding, as a boycott is a little extreme.
I am with you with regards to watching a balanced team (e.g. Dallas, Phoenix, Utah) versus a team that has one player dominating the scoring (e.g. LA, Washington) . However, I do still think you need a dominant player who gets it done in the last 2 minutes, or you will never win it all. I think we agree on this. My point is don't think Bosh will ever be this guy. Bargnani maybe, but not Bosh.
Also, in looking at the other championship teams in recent history, it is also clear that almost all those teams have had a dominant rebounder (e.g. Shaq, Duncan, Wallace, Rodman, Olajuwan) and/or a defensive stopper (e.g. Rodman, Bowen). So, even if we traded for Kobe, I still think the Raps would be missing this important piece.
Anyway, I think Kobe is done in LA, unless they can somehow swing a deal for Jermaine O'Neil, which has been recently rumoured.
P.S. How incredible was LeBron last night!?!!? So glad I was home to watch it...
--A |
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| Jeff Button |
| quote: | Originally posted by SuperJimbo
P.S. How incredible was LeBron last night!?!!? So glad I was home to watch it...
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ing unbelievable.
He moved into the top 5 ALL TIME (imo) for playoff performers with last nights display of pure madness. How old is he again?? 22?? If he can completely take over a crucial Game 5, against a team like Detroit - it's downright scary.
I know they need to win another one to move on to the Finals, but I'm looking beyond that. Who the on San Antonio will be able to control this guy? I think if Cleveland makes it, it will be a VERY interesting matchup. |
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| SuperJimbo |
| quote: | Originally posted by Jeff Button
Who the on San Antonio will be able to control this guy? |
Bowen. He controls everyone, partly because of his length and quickness, but also cause he crowds guys every second they are on the floor and s with their heads. He is an unbelievable defender. Best in the business, IMO.
I have no reason to believe that anyone can beat SA right now. Who on Cleveland can stop Duncan, Parker or Ginobli (aka gumby)? SA is next level. |
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| EvilTree |
| quote: | Originally posted by SuperJimbo
Bowen. He controls everyone, partly because of his length and quickness, but also cause he crowds guys every second they are on the floor and s with their heads. He is an unbelievable defender. Best in the business, IMO.
I have no reason to believe that anyone can beat SA right now. Who on Cleveland can stop Duncan, Parker or Ginobli (aka gumby)? SA is next level. |
Kinda obvious that Cleveland dies if Lebron gets shut down.
But even for Bowen, Lebron will be a handful.
Should be interesting. |
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| Porky |
being a pistons hater i've never yelled out BITCH! so many times last night. all clutch points. the most difficult was probably when lebron went to his left (weak side) and shot a fade-away 3pointer.. with a minute left in OT1 with the Cavs down by 3... CLUTCH!
and to the pistons... BITCHES!
:) |
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| Porky |
| quote: | Originally posted by EvilTree
But even for Bowen, Lebron will be a handful.
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I think lebron has the size and strength to make Bowen's life miserable. Bowen deserves it, karma for him pushing around nash!
i watched all 6 spurs/suns games and all 5 lakers/suns games but didn't watch a single spurs/jazz game. the only way i'll watch the finals is if the cavs make it, the pistons are almost as boring as the spurs.. |
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| MarkT |
| quote: | Originally posted by SuperJimbo
Bowen. He controls everyone, partly because of his length and quickness, but also cause he crowds guys every second they are on the floor and s with their heads. He is an unbelievable defender. Best in the business, IMO.
I have no reason to believe that anyone can beat SA right now. Who on Cleveland can stop Duncan, Parker or Ginobli (aka gumby)? SA is next level. |
agreed. Bowen, while one of the nastiest players out there, lol, is stellar on defense and is pretty clutch too. I love Parker's game and Duncan is just a beast... 23+ pts, 11+ reb, 3+ blks per game in the playoffs. He steps it up a notch, big time.
the way to beat Clevland seems to be to pressure and double LeBron at all times and force inconsistent (but good) players like Hughes, Ilgauskas, etc. to step up. In a 7 game series, you'll succeed more often than not, IMHO ;)
yes, I was serious about boycotting the Raps if they deal Calderon or acquire Kobe, haha. Toronto has a solid foundation to build upon...dismantling that for an immediate run? nah...
not sure about needing that "dominant" guy. Detroit doesn't have one, though they seem to be the exception. I think you need people who can step it up, but it's funny that most of the ridiculously dominant one-on-one guys, except LeBron, are all watching from the sidelines at this time of year ;) I bet Kobe, Iverson, Arenas, etc. would all take a pay cut to play on a team like SA or Detroit :D
I'd really like to see the Raps stay the course...so if they're to deal for a 1st rounder, find a team who doesn't 'need' their pick, or has multiple picks. and try to package up some young talent and expiring contracts and go from there. Joey Graham, Rasho, MoPete in a sign and trade...who knows...but ing with the core (both PGs, Bosh and Bargnani) seems a bit shortsighted to me.
a team with multiple picks is a good option, because all 1st rounders get guaranteed contracts, right? Deep draft still equals unproven talent and what team wants to be saddled with two or three guaranteed contracts for guys who may not start or even pan out? |
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| infinity HiGH |
Am I the only one who's afraid the Raptors are ed for the next decade? Should definitely be interesting to see what happens now, now that Lebron has tasted Championship basketball. |
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| slingshot |
| quote: | Grange: Hill looks at Raptors, likes what he sees
MICHAEL GRANGE
From Thursday's Globe and Mail
CLEVELAND — Watching the National Basketball Association final lurch to its inevitable result, two conclusions are clear — one with important ramifications for the Toronto Raptors and possibly even former NBA all-star Grant Hill.
The first is that the San Antonio Spurs are an excellent team, worthy of the dynasty talk that will come with their fourth title in nine years, a feat awaiting only the formality of their finishing off the overmatched Cleveland Cavaliers in the fourth game of the final tonight or (at the outside) the fifth game on Sunday.
The second is that the Eastern Conference is so wide open, the Raptors should be thinking of themselves as legitimate candidates to be here a season from now.
Doubtless general manager Bryan Colangelo and his crew think so, but even more significant, players who might help them get there are taking notice as well.
Hill, for example, has been covering the final as a television analyst for ABC. The Orlando Magic wing player will be an unrestricted free agent on July 1 and, after losing some of the prime years of his career to injury, is looking for an opportunity that will maximize his chances of earning an NBA title — or at least the chance to compete for one.
An uninspiring performance by the Cavaliers and the lack of a surefire next-best candidate in the East has suddenly put the Raptors into that mix.
"They're on the radar. Bryan's done a great job there," Hill said before the third game on Tuesday, adding that he would only begin focusing on his playing future after talking more with the Magic after the final is over. He also noted that his wife, recording artist Tamia Hill, is Canadian and said that "at this point in my career, a winning situation is the primary thing."
A source close to the former Duke University star also said Hill has mentioned the Raptors as a possibility among a select number of franchises, with the Phoenix Suns, San Antonio Spurs and Detroit Pistons under consideration. Certainly, the Raptors' playing style would seem to be a good fit for Hill, and there's no doubt that one of the NBA's most respected citizens would enjoy the team's uniformly drama-free locker room.
While Colangelo declined to comment on Hill, given he's not yet a free agent, it's thought he's seeking a short-term contract to maintain his flexibility.
There are other options to shore up the Raptors' need for more production from their small forward spot, though since Toronto can spend only the mid-level exception, the field is somewhat limited.
The most desirable names — Rashard Lewis of the Seattle SuperSonics and Gerald Wallace of the Charlotte Bobcats — are both too expensive. Not as talented is Luke Walton of the Los Angeles Lakers, but he is a reliable three-point threat and top-grade facilitator. Getting him to leave Southern California could be an obstacle, however, according to those close to him.
The Cleveland Cavaliers' Sasha Pavlovic is intriguing, if only because he's 23 years old, will have NBA final experience and shows flashes of being a serious offensive threat — although that's often off-set by his hubris with the ball. He's a restricted free agent, and given Cleveland is likely to be a tax team next season if they re-sign Anderson Varejao, Pavlovic might be available with a carefully constructed, front-end-loaded offer.
Other candidates include James Posey of the Miami Heat and Mickael Pietrus of the Golden State Warriors, both long-armed defenders with some offensive skill, with Posey's experience balanced against Pietrus's promise.
Trades are a possibility as well, with the only problem being that the Raptors' most desirable commodity is Jose Calderon, the emerging Spanish point guard.
The Atlanta Hawks, who came close to signing Calderon out of Spain before the Raptors did, desperately needs point-guard help and carries a wealth of wing players that could fit in Toronto, but Colangelo has stressed that continuity and depth are features he wants to establish on his roster, which suggests any move that would involve a player as prized as Calderon would have to net a proven asset in return and likely a draft pick, too. One rumoured deal involving Calderon and Joey Graham for Josh Childress, Solomon Jones and the 11th pick in the draft, as floated the other day for example, wouldn't cut it.
Whatever the case, the Raptors can only be encouraged by the way things have developed since they were eliminated by the New Jersey Nets in the first round.
Clubs thought to have championship mettle — Miami and Detroit, for example — have been exposed as vulnerable. Fast-rising rivals such as the Chicago Bulls and Cleveland are missing key pieces.
The Raptors are, too. But more than ever, it's evident that the right move or two and the requisite amount of luck could land them in the NBA final. And, once there, it's hard to imagine their doing any worse than the Cavaliers. |
Interesting. |
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