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The Official 2006/2007 Toronto Raptors & NBA Thread (pg. 34)
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| jon jon |
| quote: | Originally posted by slingshot
He looks like he's taking up space because he's not being actively involved in the offense.
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I agree, I wasn't necessary blaming Bargnani. |
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| Spin Laden |
| quote: | Originally posted by Porky
the one thing i gotta say is that the raps have one of the more stable PG tandems in the league. even though Ford is a B+ player, he has another B+ PG (Calderone) backing him up. someone who has solid international experience and is more of a team player (high Assist/TO ratio) that complements Ford's scoring mentality. |
Ford also has better stamina too, for games with high tempo. They compliment each other, imo |
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| SuperJimbo |
| quote: | Originally posted by EvilTree
I'm still shocked at how some of you are being so hard on TJ Ford.
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I guess my main point is that, while it would be nice, I don't think both TJ and Calderon will be back next year. And if I were Colangelo, I would trade TJ. I guess we'll see. |
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| Jeff Button |
| quote: | Originally posted by SuperJimbo
I guess my main point is that, while it would be nice, I don't think both TJ and Calderon will be back next year. And if I were Colangelo, I would trade TJ. I guess we'll see. |
TJ > Calderon
If you are only keeping one of them, there is WAY more potential in Fords game. |
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| SuperJimbo |
| quote: | Originally posted by Jeff Button
TJ > Calderon
If you are only keeping one of them, there is WAY more potential in Fords game. |
Care to elaborate on areas in which you think TJ has "WAY more potential"? |
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| Porky |
| quote: | Originally posted by Jeff Button
TJ > Calderon
If you are only keeping one of them, there is WAY more potential in Fords game. |
i really do think calderon would start on at least a third of the nba league. look what he did with Spain at the World games last summer. his stats per min are solid, it's just that he hasn't been afforded the playing time to blossom b/c ford was traded for as the defacto pg.
give him 38min a game, and i can easily see 7-8 assists and 12 points... along with a steal or two |
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| Jeff Button |
| quote: | Originally posted by SuperJimbo
Care to elaborate on areas in which you think TJ has "WAY more potential"? |
He's quicker.
Better at distributing the ball.
A pest on defense.
And the "WAY more potential" lies strictly on where he is in his career - I think he has the potential to be a top 5 PG in the NBA - where I see Calderon being a potential starter on most teams.
*edit - i'm not knocking Calderon either.... just stating my preference of the two |
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| Jeff Button |
FG% .436
3PT% .304
FT % .819
REB 3.1
STL 1.4
TO 3.08
AST 7.9
PTS 14.0
FG% .521
3PT% .333
FT % .818
REB 2.2 **
STL 1.1 **
TO 1.85 **
AST 7.2 **
PTS 11.3 **
** increased based on if calderon played the same minutes as ford.
points, steals, assists, rebounds = ford wins.
regardless of all that, we have both of them on the squad this year - which is one of the reason's the raps have faired so well all year. depth at the guard position is tough to find in the NBA, and when you have it you are at a huge advantage. |
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| SuperJimbo |
| quote: | Originally posted by Jeff Button
He's quicker.
Better at distributing the ball.
A pest on defense.
And the "WAY more potential" lies strictly on where he is in his career - I think he has the potential to be a top 5 PG in the NBA - where I see Calderon being a potential starter on most teams.
*edit - i'm not knocking Calderon either.... just stating my preference of the two |
For all great point guards, Mental > Physical.
TJ has the physical tools, but does he have the head/temperment to be great? That is the question. |
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| jon jon |
| quote: | Originally posted by SuperJimbo
And if I were Colangelo, I would trade TJ. |
The way I had it explained it to me, it would be very unlikely that TJ would be traded. He's signed on for another two years and because of his package he's tough(er) to trade?
No? |
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| lazy haze |
| i doubt TJ will be traded...i think having both works well...you go with whoever has the hot hand, and when he slows down, like calderon did in the 4th quarter last night, you sub in the other guy...their combined production is very impressive. Both Calderon and TJ, at least at this point in their career, are not consistent enough to be the teams only legitimate option at PG. |
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| MarkT |
I'm not sure those pro-rated figures for Calderon are accurate. If he plays ~70% of the minutes that TJ does, don't you just divide all of Calderon's #s by ~0.70 to 'gross them up'? That gives him more like 12.4 PPG, for example and other stats would thus be higher too. I'm baked, so I can't vouch for my math right now though, lol :D
To argue in favour of TJ's stats, he plays against the other team's starters...i.e. harder competition. But...he also plays more with the Raps starters, who are more talented teammates to have on the floor with him. The converse is also true. Calderon likely sees less stiff competition if he plays more against the other team's 2nd unit, but he also plays more with less skilled fellow bench players. Some stats will be better, some will suffer, depending upon the quality of your opposition and the quality of your teammates on the floor with you.
Jeff, when you say "points, steals, assists, rebounds = ford wins", that's kind of misleading as, in most of those categories, the difference is rather small...and using rebounds? Jason Kidd notwithstanding, who cares how many boards your PG grabs? That's not their job and if another aspect of their game suffers because they're grabbing boards instead of being in a position to run up court when your big men grabs one, is that a good thing?
IMHO, one of the more relevant stats for a PG is assist-to-turnover ratio. i.e. given that they handle the ball a *lot* and it's their job to find their teammates, low turnover-to-assist ratio is a good marker.
Among PGs: Calderon is 4th in THE ENTIRE LEAGUE in assist-to-turnover ratio. TJ is 25th. How about Calderon absolutely smoking TJ in FG%? Calderon is 8th in lowest # of turnovers per game...and while TJ is 2nd only to Nash is assists-per-48min (amazing!), Calderon isn't far behind in 6th. I'd say he matches up *quite* well with TJ.
anyway, I think they're both great PGs, and it will be inevitable that when a team has two guys who can start, that the debate will rage on. They're pretty close in overall 'worth' to the Raps, but I would rather have Calderon if the Raps could keep just one...particularly given that TJ is the higher profile player and would thus likely fetch more in a trade. |
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