|
Avatar looks badass. (pg. 19)
|
View this Thread in Original format
| djnitride |
| quote: | Originally posted by Krypton
The point is you'r assertion that, "capitalism doesn't have a dark side" is blatantly false. Exploitation of those who do not own the means of production does exist and is negative for those affected by it. Not to mention the concept of negative externalities which I already touched upon. Oil companies make a deal with the Nigerian government to drill for oil in the country. Meanwhile, the locals get to enjoy pools of oil from leaking pipelines, destroyed environment, and see no benefit whatsoever from the buyer's (oil companies) and seller's (Nigerian government) business transaction. Fortunately, the people decided to rebel instead of take it up the ass. |
This would happen with any economic system, I fail to see your point. |
|
|
| djnitride |
| quote: | Originally posted by Krypton
Same thing happens the other way around. When a state of oligarchy exists in which the wealthy elite own most of the means of production to the detriment of the poor majority, social instability can lead to full blown revolution, or some other negative social situation. The key is to find the right balance between free markets and preventing too much power and resources concentrating in an elite few. Some call it, equality of opportunity. |
I agree, however reality is not always so black and white. |
|
|
| Krypton |
| quote: | Originally posted by djnitride
This would happen with any economic system, I fail to see your point. |
If you read capitalizt's post up top, he said there is no "dark side to capitalism". There clearly is as I'v been demonstrating. So getting back to my original point to the17sss, Avatar did a great job bringing the dark side of capitalism to the light. Clearly, some people's feathers were ruffled by it. I see no reason why we can't at least accept this fact, and try to make capitalism a better system than it already is, by addressing some of the very real negative affects of capitalism in some way. Instead of denying it out of hand. |
|
|
| djnitride |
| quote: | Originally posted by Krypton
If you read capitalizt's post up top, he said there is no "dark side to capitalism". There clearly is as I'v been demonstrating. So getting back to my original point to the17sss, Avatar did a great job bringing the dark side of capitalism to the light. Clearly, some people's feathers were ruffled by it. I see no reason why we can't at least accept this fact, and try to make capitalism a better system than it already is, by addressing some of the very real negative affects of capitalism in some way. |
I completely agree, just was making sure you realized your argument to could be applied to nearly anything.
In the end it is up to us as a race to make sure those who commit these atrocities are punished. |
|
|
| Krypton |
| quote: | Originally posted by djnitride
I agree, however reality is not always so black and white. |
Never made it out as black or white. That's why I always advocate a rational balance. |
|
|
| DaRoZa |
| quote: | Originally posted by Capitalizt
Put down the commie manifesto and look at the real world my man. Every country thrives to the extent that they allow markets to function. The "means of production" are not a natural resource that exist without cause.. They require an environment favorable to growth and wealth creation (and yes, wealth IS created..It does not exist in a static quantity as many lefties seem to think). If you condemn the profit motive and choke off economic liberty, you can certainly rid yourself of the "exploiters"..but don't expect the "means of production" to remain in existence for very long. |
i wasn't saying there's something morally wrong with that relationship or that i believe it should or could be different. just because marx was the first to look at things from a class conflict perspective doesn't mean anyone who uses that lens are commies, so no need to defend capitalism to me.
you still haven't explained how a capitalist society somehow devoid of government would have its pandora's box shut when it comes to exploiting the peon majority...
just not understanding your point at all really.. maybe you could explain what this hypothetical no-government/pro-capitalist world would actually be like? |
|
|
| Fledz |
| quote: | Originally posted by Capitalizt
Put down the commie manifesto and look at the real world my man. Every country thrives to the extent that they allow markets to function. The "means of production" are not a natural resource that exist without cause.. They require an environment favorable to growth and wealth creation (and yes, wealth IS created..It does not exist in a static quantity as many lefties seem to think). If you condemn the profit motive and choke off economic liberty, you can certainly rid yourself of the "exploiters"..but don't expect the "means of production" to remain in existence for very long. |
No, wealth it not created. It has to come from something else.
The reason why we're in such a sorry state as a world right now is because of the belief that debts can constantly be passed on and money can be printed out of thin air. It can't. Eventually someone will want to actually see that money.
I mean look at your country as a perfect example. You owe the world countless trillions of dollars so what do you do? You just print more money as if that's going to ing solve anything. |
|
|
| pkcRAISTLIN |
| quote: | Originally posted by Fledz
No, wealth it not created. It has to come from something else.
The reason why we're in such a sorry state as a world right now is because of the belief that debts can constantly be passed on and money can be printed out of thin air. It can't. Eventually someone will want to actually see that money.
I mean look at your country as a perfect example. You owe the world countless trillions of dollars so what do you do? You just print more money as if that's going to ing solve anything. |
there simply wasn't any alternative given the situation. |
|
|
| Fledz |
Yes there was, bankruptcy. You think we've avoided another great depression? No, all we've done is delay it and ensured that when it does happen we'll fall even further down a hole.
The banks and other business should have been left to rot, then we could have started from scratch. Now we're just wasting money to fatten up the fat cats wallets even more and delaying the inevitable. |
|
|
| pkcRAISTLIN |
| quote: | Originally posted by Fledz
Yes there was, bankruptcy. You think we've avoided another great depression? No, all we've done is delay it and ensured that when it does happen we'll fall even further down a hole.
The banks and other business should have been left to rot, then we could have started from scratch. Now we're just wasting money to fatten up the fat cats wallets even more and delaying the inevitable. |
lol. id stick to the science if i were you champ ;) youre talking complete nonsense (though you'll be pleased to know capitalizt would agree with said nonsense) :p |
|
|
| Fledz |
So all we're doing right now is fixing the system? Last I checked, we're going backwards and running into the same problems as before.
Yea, letting the small minority of the worlds population control the world with next to no regulation at all is really a fantastic way to run the world 
I mean don't get me wrong, I'd love to be able to fix this by just throwing money at the problem but I'm becoming far too much of a realist to believe that's going to happen without a radical revolution in the system. Something that will not happen without a collapse because the people with the power won't let it. |
|
|
| pkcRAISTLIN |
| quote: | Originally posted by Fledz
So all we're doing right now is fixing the system? Last I checked, we're going backwards and running into the same problems as before.
Yea, letting the small minority of the worlds population control the world with next to no regulation at all is really a fantastic way to run the world
I mean don't get me wrong, I'd love to be able to fix this by just throwing money at the problem but I'm becoming far too much of a realist to believe that's going to happen without a radical revolution in the system. Something that will not happen without a collapse because the people with the power won't let it. |
im heading out in a sec so cant reply properly to this, but i just wanted to say that letting the financial system implode simply wasn't an option, and has far more to do with Main Street than you're alluding to here.
you can't run a business without a supply of credit. there have been a number of great frontline docos on the topic, "inside the meltdown" is a great place to start. or you could read the time edition which named ben bernanke as person of the year. good insight to the severity and implications of the crisis.
and merry christmas :) |
|
|
|
|
