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Avatar looks badass. (pg. 23)
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| nefardec |
| quote: | Originally posted by Halcyon+On+On
A fair enough point, but I find it quite ironic that people harping about racist undertones can be simultaneously ignorant to the inherent imperialism in insisting that absolutely everything that can produce a racially-relevant metaphor is doing so at every moment. Story-telling is an innately cultural process - when answering the who, when, where of ANY plot, people naturally draw upon their own experiences and knowledge of the world to form a (hopefully) coherent script and string of scenes with the intention of- well, lots of things, but I very much doubt James Cameron was trying to make some sort of statement about Africans. I mean, I guess they were the first people to ever braid their hair, right? |
I don't think anyone is saying that James Cameron is racist.
That would be ing stupid, considering hundreds of people banded together to make this movie what it is.
What people are saying, myself included, is that AVATAR is the latest byproduct of institutionalized racism in mainstream america via hollywood.
I do, though, think James Cameron has USED race and the tragic racial history of the united states to make his screenplay have emotional resonance. I think it's questionable, given the fact that James Cameron is not exactly a spokesperson for disenfranchised people.
Also James Cameron has discussed at length that he sees the film as a parable, so that makes it open to such criticism.
I wouldn't call the film 'white guilt' as much as 'liberal guilt', of which 'race guilt' is one of the pieces. Obviously there are other things going on too, with environmental guilt, etc
check this NPR interview out regarding the matter
http://www.npr.org/templates/story/...oryId=121968796
Also, interesting fact - They casted this guy, wes studi as eytukan, who in the film is the native with whom the white protagonist must gain acceptance. Wes Studi is cherokee and has been in virtually every hollywood native american movie in the past 20 years, including dances with wolves. |
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| Halcyon+On+On |
| And if an overwhelming portion of the audience likes racism, can the institution be blamed for that one? |
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| nefardec |
| quote: | Originally posted by Halcyon+On+On
And if an overwhelming portion of the audience likes racism, can the institution be blamed for that one? |
the audience is part of the institution.
and yes, it can be blamed. people ought to know better in 2010. |
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| Halcyon+On+On |
| You make a lot of assumptions without any basis for comparison. What institution hasn't been racist, ever? We were supposed to conquer racism as a form of entertainment by 2010? Was that something Nostradamus said? |
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| nefardec |
| quote: | Originally posted by Halcyon+On+On
You make a lot of assumptions without any basis for comparison. What institution hasn't been racist, ever? We were supposed to conquer racism as a form of entertainment by 2010? Was that something Nostradamus said? |
ok then, so you agree with me that avatar is the racist product of a racist institution.
i think it was probably something martin luther king would be more likely to say than nostradamus, but cute thought. |
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| Lebezniatnikov |
Spoiler alert:
You mentioned District 9 in your first post - do you think it captures the same mentality, or does the outcome - Wikus falling into poverty and despair rather than becoming a leader and bringing the aliens to power - make it altogether different?
That to me was a story about imperialism and power, but the appealing part was that Wikus couldn't go back - he longed to, but in the end he is stuck and completely beholden to the mercy of the alien who may or may not come back for him. |
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| SYSTEM-J |
| quote: | Originally posted by nefardec
same, and i quoted some of their comments in my previous post. |
How can you not be referring to white posters if you just said:
| quote: | | also regarding some of the comments, which i did actually read, many of the people calling white guilt on the writer are themselves white, which is also ironic. You are mischaracterizing the comments. |
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| quote: | Originally posted by Lebezniatnikov
You mentioned District 9 in your first post - do you think it captures the same mentality, or does the outcome - Wikus falling into poverty and despair rather than becoming a leader and bringing the aliens to power - make it altogether different?
That to me was a story about imperialism and power, but the appealing part was that Wikus couldn't go back - he longed to, but in the end he is stuck and completely beholden to the mercy of the alien who may or may not come back for him. |
I haven't seen Avatar yet, but I think District 9 is definitely a different breed of film to Dances With Wolves or The Last Samurai. One of the best things about District 9 was that it made me understand why racism occurs. District 9 is not simply a white/black racial dichotomy - the black population of Jo'burg resent the Prawns as much as the white. District 9 mirrors the real life scenario in South Africa where refugees from nearby countries flooded into the country and caused resentment in exactly the people who were suffering racism not very long ago, and still suffer it to some extent. With its very flawed and human protagonist (definitely not hero), the film pretty much shows how racial resentment is often born simply out of circumstance, a much more nuanced view than simply "racism = wrong/evil trait". The Prawns don't want to be in District 9 and the human population of Jo'burg don't want them there either, but they're both forced into the situation and so prejudice and hate is born. |
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| Lebezniatnikov |
| quote: | Originally posted by SYSTEM-J
District 9 mirrors the real life scenario in South Africa where refugees from nearby countries flooded into the country and caused resentment in exactly the people who were suffering racism not very long ago, and still suffer it to some extent. |
Yeah, this is one of the aspects of the film lost on a lot of people in the US. Apparently the Director used actual township residents for the media interviews on the film - but rather than ask how they felt about the Prawns, they asked about Zimbabweans. The answers were all real, and not acted.
| quote: | | With its very flawed and human protagonist (definitely not hero), the film pretty much shows how racial resentment is often born simply out of circumstance, a much more nuanced view than simply "racism = wrong/evil trait". The Prawns don't want to be in District 9 and the human population of Jo'burg don't want them there either, but they're both forced into the situation and so prejudice and hate is born. |
This didn't occur to me actually, and I think it's another level of complexity that really works. |
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| nefardec |
| quote: | Originally posted by SYSTEM-J
How can you not be referring to white posters if you just said
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that comment WAS referring to white posters, obviously, and if you read the comments that i quoted, i included some written by african americans.
| quote: | Originally posted by SYSTEM-J
I haven't seen Avatar yet |
:rolleyes: |
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| SYSTEM-J |
| quote: | Originally posted by nefardec
that comment WAS referring to white posters, obviously, and if you read the comments that i quoted, i included some written by african americans. |
Fascinating. Can you get to the part where I mischaracterised someone?
And RE: green rolleyes, I've had three discussions in this thread, regarding Jurassic Park, thought-provoking qualities of films and now this whole race issue, with a bit about CGI in between. All I've actually said about Avatar the film is that I'm willing to give it a chance based on Cameron's track record. So roll away. |
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| stren |
| I enjoyed it thoroughly, even though the story was very predictable. Gotta love the characters, especially the colonel. 3d effects cool, but not when there was a lot going on in the frame. |
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| Halcyon+On+On |
| quote: | Originally posted by nefardec
ok then, so you agree with me that avatar is the racist product of a racist institution. |
So what? |
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