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Massive Quake Hits Japan! (pg. 43)
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| Moongoose |
| quote: | Originally posted by Sushipunk
Wat. The Chernobyl reactors? Don't think so. |
| quote: | The Chernobyl reactors are of the RBMK type. These are high-power, pressure-tube reactors, moderated with graphite and cooled with water. At the time of the Chernobyl accident there were 17 RBMKs in operation in the Soviet Union and two in Lithuania. Since the accident, five RBMKs have been shut down. All four units at Chernobyl and one of the Lithuanian RBMKs were shut down.
At Chernobyl:
– Unit 4 reactor was destroyed in the 1986 accident;
– Unit 2 was shut down five years later; after a serious turbine building fire;
– Unit 1 was closed in November 1996, and
– Unit 3 was closed December 15, 1999, as promised by Ukrainian President Leonid Kuchma.
In Lithuania, Ignalina Unit 1 was shut down in December 2004 as a condition of admission to the European Union. Of the remaining 12 operating RBMKs, 11 are in Russia and one is in Lithuania (proposed to be decommissioned by 2009). |
Source
Also, how the is Nou the voice of reason in this thread? Ok besides Lira of course, but saying that Lira is the voice of reason is like saying that water is wet. Redundant. |
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| Sushipunk |
| quote: | Originally posted by Moongoose
Source |
I never knew that, very interesting. How was the plant operated, considering the high levels of radiation in the area?
| quote: | Originally posted by Moongoose
Also, how the is Nou the voice of reason in this thread? Ok besides Lira of course, but saying that Lira is the voice of reason is like saying that water is wet. Redundant. |
Nou has always had an interest in nuclear related stuff, as long as I've been posting here, anyway. I assume that being well-read on a topic like that means less "OMG OMG the sky is falling because the media told me so" type of behaviour :p |
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| ChemEnhanced |
| I've lost interest in this story....time for a new disaster to watch. |
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| _Ocean_Drive_ |
| quote: | Originally posted by rulzz
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| quote: | Originally posted by Sushipunk
^^ And that means what, exactly? |
With a name like SUSHIpunk, you should know, surely?! :p
Basic translation...
White title across the top: Tokai shinkansen (bullet train) ltd service(?)
Words on the right: From Tokyo Electric
Yellow writing: Fukushima number 1 power plant
White writing above that: Tohoku / Kanto earthquake / "dai shinsai - Great Earthquake disaster |
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| Moongoose |
First of all, I'm never again writing a long response in a browser window! I'm typing this in notepad now and I'm pasting it in the reply box later, and I'm not spending another better part of an hour to write that out so here is the short version of what was supposed to be a very long and potentially interesting post. Anyway...
| quote: | Originally posted by Sushipunk
I never knew that, very interesting. How was the plant operated, considering the high levels of radiation in the area? |
Well its not widely known, so that's why I put it out there an a unbelievable/shocking fact. Now don't expect me to remember everything as the basis for my whole understanding of the disaster was a dedicated issue of a local science journal I read way back in high school (dedicated since they were talking about the shutdown of the last reactor, so it had to be back in 98 or 99 that I've read it).
Anyway, the thing about radiation is that its hardly uniform in all areas. After the explosion and even more so today there is a huge difference in radiation level based on where you are. For instance:
After the reactor blew, the immediate area around it radiated with about 300Sv/hr. To put that in context, a lethal dose is about 6Sv/day. The first lives claimed by the reactor were the technicians that died in the explosion itself.
Reactor area aside, the radiation elsewhere was like this (note I'm copying this info from Wikipedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cherno...adiation_levels), but if you have time to waste the 76 page report that those values are based on can be found here (http://www.dtic.mil/cgi-bin/GetTRDo...oc=GetTRDoc.pdf)
Location | Sieverts per hour (SI Unit)
Vicinity of the reactor core | 300
Fuel fragments | 150-200
Debris heap at the place of circulation pumps | 100
Debris near the electrolyzers | 50-150
Water in the Level +25 feedwater room| 50
Level 0 of the turbine hall | 5-150
Area of the affected unit | 10-15
Water in Room 712 | 10
Control room, shortly after explosion | .03-.05
Gidroelektromontazh depot | .3
Nearby concrete mixing unit | .10-.15
So even immediately after the explosion, the control room was relatively safe. The reason most technicians died being that they were sent out to check out on the state of the reactor (like from the roof, where there was radiation of about 150Sv/hr...those people didn't survive) or do crisis management in the reactor building itself, which was filled with highly irradiated water, steam and remnants of nuclear fuel. The change that only several metres of distance between people had on survival is probably best summed up in this quote (again from wiki as I'm not pouring trough source docs again)
| quote: | | Alexander Yuvchenko was located in his office between reactors 3 and 4, on Level 12.5; he described the event as a shock wave that buckled walls, blew doors in, and brought a cloud of milky grey radioactive dust and steam. The lights went out. He met a badly burned, drenched and shocked pump operator, who asked him to rescue Khodemchuk; that quickly proved impossible as that part of the building did not exist anymore. Yuvchenko, together with the foreman Yuri Tregub, ran out of the building and saw half of the building gone and the reactor emitting a blue glow of ionized air. They returned to the building and met Valeri Perevozchenko and two junior technicians, Kudryavtsev and Proskuryakov, ordered by Dyatlov to manually lower the presumably seized control rods. Tregub went to report the extent of damage to the control room. Despite Yuvchenko's explanation that there were no control rods left, the four climbed a stairwell to Level 35 to survey the damage; Yuvchenko held open the massive door into the reactor room and the other three proceeded in to locate the control rod mechanism; after no more than a minute of surveying the reactor debris, enough for all three to sustain fatal doses of radiation, they returned, their skin darkened with "nuclear tan" in reaction to the high radiation dose. The three were the first to die in the Moscow hospital. Yuvchenko meanwhile suffered serious beta burns and gamma burns to his left shoulder, hip and calf as he kept the radioactive-dust-covered door open. It was later estimated he received a dose of 4.1 Sv. At 3:00 am, he began vomiting intensely; by 6:00 am, he could no longer walk. He later spent a year in the Moscow hospital receiving blood and plasma transfusions and received numerous skin grafts. |
And the danger was contained even further with the construction of the concrete sarcophagus around the reactor #4 later that year, containing all of that dangerous radiation, dust, nuclear fuel and debris. So even in the immediate aftermath of the explosion the control room was relatively safe, and with the later containment of the reactor even more so. One just probably needed to avoid all the places that the really nasty stuff that blew out of the reactor hit the ground (which was cleaned anyway but cleaning radiation doesn't work all that well).
The radiation should stop being a problem in the next 300 year or so anyway, so no worries there.
As for the current problems in Japan
| quote: | | The plant's owners, the Tokyo Electric Power Company, evacuated all but about 50 of their workers from the plant following Tuesday's explosion at the No. 2 reactor. Radiation levels at the plant have increased to "levels that can impact human health," Edano said -- between 100 and 400 millisieverts (and reducing - my comment), or as much as 160 times higher than the average dose of radiation a typical person receives from natural sources in a year. |
Source (http://edition.cnn.com/2011/WORLD/a...dex.html?hpt=T1)
So even with all that's going on, considerably less than in Chernobyl. That's of course the levels at the plant itself, not around it. The evacuation is in case the damn things actually blows and releases large amounts of radiation into the air.
| quote: | Originally posted by Sushipunk
Nou has always had an interest in nuclear related stuff, as long as I've been posting here, anyway. I assume that being well-read on a topic like that means less "OMG OMG the sky is falling because the media told me so" type of behaviour :p |
While that's a perfectly valid explanation, knowing that Nou is right just feels wrong :D |
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| Lira |
Dear people praying for Japan,
You know those people you're praying for? Who are now homeless because of the earthquake and the tsunami? It's now snowing there and they're freezing to death.
You need to pray harder.
xoxoxoxo,
- Lira |
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| Moral Hazard |
| quote: | Originally posted by Lira
Dear people praying for Japan,
You know those people you're praying for? Who are now homeless because of the earthquake and the tsunami? It's now snowing there and they're freezing to death.
You need to pray harder.
xoxoxoxo,
- Lira |
Dear Lira,
That's a pretty thing to say to people who are expressing sympathy and love for their fellow man. Maybe not the time to attack their faith, which may also be motivating more secular and tangable charitable offerings.
Best regards,
Craig |
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| Moongoose |
What? If those people are so far gone that they believe that prayer actually works than they are clearly doing a piss poor job at praying and need to put more effort into it.
Earthquake, tsunami, potential for nuclear meltdown and now snow. Clearly some of those people that are praying are slacking off. |
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| Lira |
| quote: | Originally posted by Moral Hazard
Dear Lira,
That's a pretty thing to say to people who are expressing sympathy and love for their fellow man. Maybe not the time to attack their faith, which may also be motivating more secular and tangable charitable offerings.
Best regards,
Craig |
Dear Craig,
I know, that's why I didn't post it on Facebook where most Christians I know happen to be and might be offended (I only posted it here because I know you and Megan - are there any more Christians around here? - probably know I'm just being silly). I didn't mean to attack anyone's faith, but just point out that the combination of unfortunate events is becoming ridiculous already and all the more difficult to watch. So, if there's a God, it would be pretty nice if He could just cut them some slack by now.
Sorry if it sounded offensive in any way,
- Lira |
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| LiquidX |
| quote: | Originally posted by Lira
Dear Craig,
I know, that's why I didn't post it on Facebook where most Christians I know happen to be and might be offended (I only posted it here because I know you and Megan - are there any more Christians around here? - probably know I'm just being silly). I didn't mean to attack anyone's faith, but just point out that the combination of unfortunate events is becoming ridiculous already and all the more difficult to watch. So, if there's a God, it would be pretty nice if He could just cut them some slack by now.
Sorry if it sounded offensive in any way,
- Lira |
YEs Me !!!! :whip: :whip:
You are forgiven :) |
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| wienerschnitzel |
| Lol I get what you're saying lira... We did give what bit of money we could, but you still feel helpless... When rowan and I pray, we pray that the people affected will be able to find comfort durring this tragedy and that the aid workers will be able to work to the best of their ability... I don't know if prayer can actually change weather patterns or stop nuclear reactors.. I don't know. And ffs this better not turn into a stupid religious debate... This thread is about japan. If you want to tell me how delusional and jaded I am feel free to send me a pm. |
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| Lira |
| quote: | Originally posted by wienerschnitzel
This thread is about japan |
Yes! This is what scares me to death about Japan: girl groups that are so big that I'm afraid they'll collapse into themselves and turn into a pink hole in cuteland (as opposed to a black hole in space):
AKB48 (yes, there are 48 members in this group alone!)
NMB48 (A copycat from another city, with more 48 girls)
SKE48 (There's definitely a pattern here!)
SDN48 (The rather nsfw version)
I'm terrified by how powerful this oestrogen-fuelled time bomb will become the moment they all sync together and decide to... hell knows what they're going to do, but they easily outnumber any group of superheroes I know of!
I'm terrified!
ps.: Oh, and I don't think you're delusional. If anyone does, I say they're the ones with a problem! |
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