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A Plea for Religion (pg. 19)
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| Znack |
| quote: | Originally posted by Lira
Yes, it is a deniable fact: science came from philosophy, not from religion. And, before you say philosophy came from religion, it came from a bunch of Greeks who doubted religion was a good source of knowledge and decided to do their own thing. |
I don't quite see how you are contradicting me. |
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| Lira |
| quote: | Originally posted by Znack
I don't quite see how you are contradicting me. |
- There was never a moment in which one became independent from the other because they've never been dependent on one another to begin with;
- And, while we're at it, they haven't been opposed to one another for any indefinite amount of time. There are occasional clashes, but to say that's all that happens is a bit of a stretch.
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| Znack |
| quote: | Originally posted by Lira
There was never a moment in which one became independent from the other because they've never been dependent on one another to begin with; |
There was a time when science was controlled by religion, simply because religion controlled everything. It is only within the last few hundred years that science in the West really has broken free from the church.
That was all i really meant.
| quote: |
And, while we're at it, they haven't been opposed to one another for any indefinite amount of time. There are occasional clashes, but to say that's all that happens is a bit of a stretch. |
Depends on what you mean. If you're not a young-earth creationist, then science is not in direct conflict with Christianity, but they are still diametrically opposite in their process. Where science takes facts and looks for conclusions, religion starts with conclusions and looks for facts to support it. |
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| Lira |
| quote: | Originally posted by Znack
There was a time when science was controlled by religion, simply because religion controlled everything. It is only within the last few hundred years that science in the West really has broken free from the church.
That was all i really meant. |
But I'm not sure even that way of thinking makes justice to what was going in the world at the time. Surely, thisA applies to Europe, and the Industrial Revolution did happen there, but the Arabs were taking the classical science/philosophy forward, and further in the East China was doing some awesome stuff as well.
Is it really fair to say religion controlled everything? It certainly didn't apply everywhere.
| quote: | Originally posted by Znack
Depends on what you mean. If you're not a young-earth creationist, then science is not in direct conflict with Christianity, but they are still diametrically opposite in their process. Where science takes facts and looks for conclusions, religion starts with conclusions and looks for facts to support it. |
The problem is - how many young-earth creationists do you know? I'd be surprised to find out they're more than just 10% of all Christians worldwide. It's, at best, an American thing.
As for the rest of science, maybe a more sizable group of Christians are opposed to Darwinian evolution - but not even Islam has anything to say (I presume) against physics, chemistry, and the like. |
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| Lira |
Had no idea they were still around!
They founded our largest city, and heard of Francis Xavier quite a few times at university because of his work in Japan :) |
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| srussell0018 |
They founded quite a few universities in the US. Boston College, Fordham and Georgetown to name a few. They've come under scrutiny from the Vatican more than a few times due to their tendency to sometimes disagree with Papal doctrine. It's definitely one branch that does not shy away from the study of philosophy, science, or any subject that some think are in direct opposition to Catholicism.
And I believe LADaze goes to a Jesuit University. :p |
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| Fledz |
Yes I'm sure mixing military ideals with religion is doing the right thing :rolleyes: |
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| srussell0018 |
| quote: | Originally posted by Fledz
Yes I'm sure mixing military ideals with religion is doing the right thing :rolleyes: |
Try reading more than the first paragraph before commenting. That's like faulting the modern Catholic church for the Crusades, or faulting modern Germany for the Holocaust. The Jesuits are all about education now. They've founded some of the top Universities in the US. |
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| Lira |
Actually, not even that would be an accurate comparison. To my knowledge (after skimming over the Wikipedia article :p), there's absolutely nothing about Jesuits and war. As a matter, when the Portuguese and Spanish crowns decided to take over South America, the Jesuits protected the natives in what they called "reductions". Doesn't sound very militaristic to me.
Whenever I heard of a Jesuit in school, he was either founding a university, doing some scholarly work, or praying. |
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| Vector A |
| Or conspiring to take over the world, along with the Jews, Communists, Freemasons, and Illuminati. |
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