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A Plea for Religion (pg. 5)
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| Redd |
| quote: | Originally posted by Lira
That's true. But soldiers fighting for a nation are quite capable of doing similar things, as you probably know ;) |
Absolutely, wars will still happen because of political views and power over land, but remove one of the motives and there should be less killing. |
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| Redd |
| quote: | Originally posted by srussell0018
Right, but it's their belief. The Quran doesn't say "hey, if you are of the Muslim faith, you should be a suicide bomber." Again, it's still an indictment of misguided individuals, and not of the religion itself. |
Individuals misguided by a religion. We see things differently here. I don't think the misguided people we're talking about would ever do anything close to killing themselves and a lot of innocent people if not for their religion. They might not have been your law abiding citizen throughout their lives, but nothing close to what they would do because of their beliefs. |
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| DJ Itchy Tits |
| What is ur claim exactly? That religion is not the problem of what? |
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| srussell0018 |
| quote: | Originally posted by Redd
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If my interpretation of the Bible is that it says that I should commit mass murder so that God will give me a brand new Lamborghini when I die, and then I kill a bunch of people, would you say that this is my fault or Christianity's fault? |
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| EddieZilker |
| quote: | Originally posted by Redd
I guess we disagree on that. I don't think suicide bombers would do what they do without believing what they believe. |
You're arguing that the rationalization is the cause. Khmer Rouge was genocidal, yet there was no god to tell them that was okay. Religion is no more a cause for evil, however, than communism is - another point made by Lira, in his OP. If you were to take away religion, tomorrow, the world would be no better off. It is a non sequitur that evil is caused by religion.
Though those who do evil may involve religion in some aspect of it, Catholicism is no more a factor in child sex abuse than is college basketball. Pedophiles are pedophiles because they are predisposed to such actions. Suicide bombers, many of whom are brainwashed from an already vulnerable psychological make-up, can still be motivated into action without a religious component. There would be some other ideology taking the place of that component that allows for people to rationalize such action. If the suffering of the bomber is great enough, an end to conscious thought may well be an ideal afterlife.
You might have a more successful plan if you were to eliminate any form of ideology, altogether. While you're at it, eliminate senses of entitlement, desire, money, lies, and any other psychological conception that interferes with attaining a world full of zen mastery; each of us finding fulfillment in our world as it is. Go all-out and eliminate human attachment in all of its forms. We can praise Ford, take our Soma, and not have to worry about getting laid or pregnant. |
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| srussell0018 |
| quote: | Originally posted by EddieZilker
While you're at it, eliminate senses of entitlement, desire, money, lies, and any other psychological conception that interferes with attaining a world full of zen mastery; each of us finding fulfillment in our world as it is. Go all-out and eliminate human attachment in all of its forms. |
Buddhism? Although Thích Quảng Đức burned himself in protest of Catholic persecution of Buddhists in South Vietnam. His burning himself could have hurt some people. Down with Buddhism! |
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| EddieZilker |
| quote: | Originally posted by srussell0018
Buddhism? Although Thích Quảng Đức burned himself in protest of Catholic persecution of Buddhists in South Vietnam. His burning himself could have hurt some people. Down with Buddhism! |
I thought about Confucianism, but Buddhism satisfies the requirement of divorcing oneself from one's ego. Essentially religion is a scapegoat for human nature and my limited understanding of Buddhism satisfied my objective of illustrating that. Of course, I realized that was still a religion so I decided to invoke Huxley, at the end. :p |
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| Redd |
| quote: | Originally posted by srussell0018
If my interpretation of the Bible is that it says that I should commit mass murder so that God will give me a brand new Lamborghini when I die, and then I kill a bunch of people, would you say that this is my fault or Christianity's fault? |
If you hadn't read the bible in the first place and had people telling you it was the truth - you'd never be in that situation. It's your fault for interpreting it that way, but it's religions fault for claiming whatever was written in the book is the word of an omnipotent being. |
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| srussell0018 |
| quote: | Originally posted by Redd
It's your fault for interpreting it that way, but it's religions fault for claiming whatever was written in the book is the word of an omnipotent being. |
So regardless of what the text reads, any action enacted by a believer in that religion, no matter how at odds it is with the actual verbiage of the texts, is the fault of the religion? |
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| Redd |
| quote: | Originally posted by EddieZilker
You're arguing that the rationalization is the cause. Khmer Rouge was genocidal, yet there was no god to tell them that was okay. Religion is no more a cause for evil, however, than communism is - another point made by Lira, in his OP. If you were to take away religion, tomorrow, the world would be no better off. It is a non sequitur that evil is caused by religion. |
Not going to argue what is more cause for evil, because it wasn't really my point. I'll leave it at that since you cover it in your last paragraph.
| quote: | | Suicide bombers, many of whom are brainwashed from an already vulnerable psychological make-up, can still be motivated into action without a religious component. There would be some other ideology taking the place of that component that allows for people to rationalize such action. If the suffering of the bomber is great enough, an end to conscious thought may well be an ideal afterlife. |
I don't believe they couldn't be motivated into doing similar actions without religion. I'm saying they most likely wouldn't. That's got to count for something?
| quote: | | You might have a more successful plan if you were to eliminate any form of ideology, altogether. While you're at it, eliminate senses of entitlement, desire, money, lies, and any other psychological conception that interferes with attaining a world full of zen mastery; each of us finding fulfillment in our world as it is. Go all-out and eliminate human attachment in all of its forms. We can praise Ford, take our Soma, and not have to worry about getting laid or pregnant. |
I actually like Bhuddism, but I don't see why removing one (religion) of the motivations wouldn't better things. |
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| srussell0018 |
| quote: | Originally posted by Redd
I actually like Bhuddism, but I don't see why removing one (religion) of the motivations wouldn't better things. |
lolwut
So shall you comb through all religions in existence and decide which ones should be done away with and which ones are okay?
You should probably also develop an objective rating scale for what makes a religion "okay" and what makes it not okay. |
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