There are great peace loving people like Maya Yechieli in Israel and they are all starting to speak out.
junkproject
quote:
Originally posted by hardcore trancer
There are great peace loving people like Maya Yechieli in Israel and they are all starting to speak out.
she lives in NY...
Viber
quote:
Originally posted by EddieZilker
If you think I would be held back just to keep from seeing you upset, you're highly mistaken. What I suspect is that I wouldn't have to go the length I've gone to here to see you upset, in real life. I have a feeling, if you and I met, the truth of my position might be a little over-whelming for you and, quite similar to three different incidents that have happened this year, you'd have become flustered, red in the face, and walked away before I could see you completely loosing your composure.
lol, i'm not upset, i was just a little shocked, i was under the impression you were a tolerant\well read human being and then you back-lashed at me like a mad men.
In real life i would have been even more calm about our little discussion (up to the point you started to curse - then its time to walk away).
Throughout my life i encountered many people who thought the opposite from me, i don't have a problem with that, it makes life more interesting and i even enjoy playing the devil's advocate with people who have the same opinions as me.
I stay away from fights and violence, being angry or violent is not good for my health period, so if you want to start a fight again just add me to your ignore list and i'll add you to mine.;)
which other "three different incidents" are you referring to? this is the first time we've been talking? (and probably our last).
quote:
If there's a "difference in thinking," it has to do with the fact that you harbor dehumanizing, homicidal rationalizations and I do not.
No i'm not, there are people here who offered to nuke the entire middle east, all i want is radical Muslims (and radical Jews if i need to make it even more clear) to be silenced and contained (not killed).
Homicidal rationalizations?:wtf: why stop there, add in some more colorful accusations.
EddieZilker
quote:
Originally posted by Viber
lol, i'm not upset, i was just a little shocked, i was under the impression you were a tolerant\well read human being and then you back-lashed at me like a mad men.
In real life i would have been even more calm about our little discussion (up to the point you started to curse - then its time to walk away).
Throughout my life i encountered many people who thought the opposite from me, i don't have a problem with that, it makes life more interesting and i even enjoy playing the devil's advocate with people who have the same opinions as me.
I stay away from fights and violence, being angry or violent is not good for my health period, so if you want to start a fight again just add me to your ignore list and i'll add you to mine.;)
which other "three different incidents" are you referring to? this is the first time we've been talking? (and probably our last).
No i'm not, there are people here who offered to nuke the entire middle east, all i want is radical Muslims (and radical Jews if i need to make it even more clear) to be silenced and contained (not killed).
Homicidal rationalizations?:wtf: why stop there, add in some more colorful accusations.
You're citing propaganda as a source for your beliefs and, in an earlier post, went onto explain that "many" (seeming to imply a majority) were radicalized. You've discounted most of my arguments that Muslims have been unfairly discriminated against. You tell me that you used to feel as I do, but I'm not even clear on what that means; that you have a full understanding of where I stand. What in the are you arguing?
Be specific. I'm not arguing that "many" haven't been radicalized nor am I suggesting that there aren't bigots from both camps but if you can't see that the situation is so incredibly beyond ed - that it is beyond proving that anyone has a clear-cut role in instigating it - and that both sides are playing equal parts in it, instead of Israel is right and Palestine is wrong because they started this multi-decade fiasco culminating in rocket attacks and the slaughter of civilians, then you are clearly out of your mind.
Viber
quote:
Originally posted by EddieZilker
You're citing propaganda as a source for your beliefs and, in an earlier post, went onto explain that "many" (seeming to imply a majority) were radicalized. You've discounted most of my arguments that Muslims have been unfairly discriminated against. You tell me that you used to feel as I do, but I'm not even clear on what that means; that you have a full understanding of where I stand. What in the are you arguing?
Be specific. I'm not arguing that "many" haven't been radicalized nor am I suggesting that there aren't bigots from both camps but if you can't see that the situation is so incredibly beyond ed - that it is beyond proving that anyone has a clear-cut role in instigating it - and that both sides are playing equal parts in it, instead of Israel is right and Palestine is wrong because they started this multi-decade fiasco culminating in rocket attacks and the slaughter of civilians, then you are clearly out of your mind.
I'm not using Propaganda as a source for my beliefs, i only listen to the Muslims themselves speak in that documentary and i believe them (wouldn't be worse if i called them liars?).
if you bothered watching more then a minute you would have seen more then one type of character in this thing:
you had Muslim-1 saying he admires Bin-Laden, saying that radicalism is the solution for young kids, saying that he wants Sharia law in Europe.
Muslim-2 saying this condition is a result of neglect from hosting countries, yet he tries to fight negative influences by getting kids on the football pitch instead of hanging on the streets all day.
And Muslim-3 (female) saying she was beaten down her entire life and that she was treated like dirt just because she is a women.
I admire the second guy by the way.
When i say "many Muslims" i don't mean to imply "most", there are 17 million Islam believers in Europe (excluding Turkey), i think maybe 0.1% of them are radicals - that's still 17,000 people and that's "many" for me yet its light years away from calling them "the majority".
As i said earlier, i got the impression that the older generation came to Europe with hopes and dreams of a better future,i think the younger generation cant seem to find themselves in light of growing unemployment rates and integration failures in hosting countries.
You say they are drawn to these extremes because of discrimination and bad integration efforts from host countries, i don't think its logical to behave in that manner even if you are being discriminated against and i don't choose to put blame on those countries, fair enough, we are allowed to hold different opinions on the matter.
About the conflict in Israel, read between the lines, i'm against settlements (as most Israelis are, we don't like spending money on delusional people and most Israelis are secular and non Jews).
Israel is doing a lot of things which are not fair to the Palestinians, but still do i think Israel is the main block here? not really.
See i have this slight advantage in this debate, i grew up in Israel, i know what Israelis really want, i know how marginalized those extreme politicians were if there was not a Nazi ideology on the other side, i know that Israelis lost faith in peace because they are afraid of the ideology which exists on the other side.
All my childhood i had peace songs coming out of my ass, all they taught us was tolerance,respect and accepting the other, once a week we had play meetings with Arab kids, the biggest national Euphoria i can remember was during the Oslo peace signings, throughout my life i saw Israelis protesting for peace on the streets and dreaming of the day in which they will not have to send their loved ones onto the battlefields (kind of a selfish motive to yearn for peace huh?) LITERALLY EVERY ISRAELI WHO IS SENDING HIS KID TO THE IDF TELLS THEM: "YOUR KID WILL NOT HAVE TO DO THIS".
On the other hand, thanks to Palestinian "governments" there are Palestinian children growing on the same sick fantasy for generations: "This is our land, every piece of it, we will kill all the Jews and then take it all" (see: The Hamas charter )
Notice how much credit i give the Palestinian people: i think most of them want to live in peace and prosperity, i think the only solution is for them to rebel against radicalism (Hamas) and for them to rebel against the role in which their loving "brothers" in-trusted them with (being the ones who will destroy the Jewish nation).
Israelis will expect a lot more from their leaders If hundreds of thousands of Palestinians will be marching in the streets for peace.
No doubt, Both sides are a part of the solution but i believe in a certain order of steps in order for it to work, first step is to exterminate extreme ideologies once and for all.
Kylle
quote:
Originally posted by Viber
there are Palestinian children growing on the same sick fantasy for generations: "This is our land, every piece of it, we will kill all the Jews and then take it all" (see: The Hamas charter
Adam420
quote:
Originally posted by Viber
I'm not using Propaganda as a source for my beliefs, i only listen to the Muslims themselves speak in that documentary and i believe them (wouldn't be worse if i called them liars?).
if you bothered watching more then a minute you would have seen more then one type of character in this thing:
you had Muslim-1 saying he admires Bin-Laden, saying that radicalism is the solution for young kids, saying that he wants Sharia law in Europe.
Muslim-2 saying this condition is a result of neglect from hosting countries, yet he tries to fight negative influences by getting kids on the football pitch instead of hanging on the streets all day.
And Muslim-3 (female) saying she was beaten down her entire life and that she was treated like dirt just because she is a women.
I admire the second guy by the way.
When i say "many Muslims" i don't mean to imply "most", there are 17 million Islam believers in Europe (excluding Turkey), i think maybe 0.1% of them are radicals - that's still 17,000 people and that's "many" for me yet its light years away from calling them "the majority".
As i said earlier, i got the impression that the older generation came to Europe with hopes and dreams of a better future,i think the younger generation cant seem to find themselves in light of growing unemployment rates and integration failures in hosting countries.
You say they are drawn to these extremes because of discrimination and bad integration efforts from host countries, i don't think its logical to behave in that manner even if you are being discriminated against and i don't choose to put blame on those countries, fair enough, we are allowed to hold different opinions on the matter.
About the conflict in Israel, read between the lines, i'm against settlements (as most Israelis are, we don't like spending money on delusional people and most Israelis are secular and non Jews).
Israel is doing a lot of things which are not fair to the Palestinians, but still do i think Israel is the main block here? not really.
See i have this slight advantage in this debate, i grew up in Israel, i know what Israelis really want, i know how marginalized those extreme politicians were if there was not a Nazi ideology on the other side, i know that Israelis lost faith in peace because they are afraid of the ideology which exists on the other side.
All my childhood i had peace songs coming out of my ass, all they taught us was tolerance,respect and accepting the other, once a week we had play meetings with Arab kids, the biggest national Euphoria i can remember was during the Oslo peace signings, throughout my life i saw Israelis protesting for peace on the streets and dreaming of the day in which they will not have to send their loved ones onto the battlefields (kind of a selfish motive to yearn for peace huh?) LITERALLY EVERY ISRAELI WHO IS SENDING HIS KID TO THE IDF TELLS THEM: "YOUR KID WILL NOT HAVE TO DO THIS".
On the other hand, thanks to Palestinian "governments" there are Palestinian children growing on the same sick fantasy for generations: "This is our land, every piece of it, we will kill all the Jews and then take it all" (see: The Hamas charter )
Notice how much credit i give the Palestinian people: i think most of them want to live in peace and prosperity, i think the only solution is for them to rebel against radicalism (Hamas) and for them to rebel against the role in which their loving "brothers" in-trusted them with (being the ones who will destroy the Jewish nation).
Israelis will expect a lot more from their leaders If hundreds of thousands of Palestinians will be marching in the streets for peace.
No doubt, Both sides are a part of the solution but i believe in a certain order of steps in order for it to work, first step is to exterminate extreme ideologies once and for all.
Regarding your last statement, I hope you mean that goes for both sides.
Anyway I have to say, spot on, this is exactly how I feel.
Viber
quote:
Originally posted by Adam420
Regarding your last statement, I hope you mean that goes for both sides.
Of course.
Kylle
quote:
Originally posted by Adam420
Regarding your last statement, I hope you mean that goes for both sides.
Both are bad, but there are differences between ideologies.
Sam Harris makes a rather striking point here.
Adam420
quote:
Originally posted by Kylle
Both are bad, but there are differences between ideologies.
Sam Harris makes a rather striking point here.
Interesting. Especially the part about Spain translating more books into Spanish in one year than the Arab world has in total since the 9th century.
