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about 30 ppl killed in YET ANOTHER shooting (pg. 15)
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| EddieZilker |
| quote: | Originally posted by tubularbills
lol, I"m not trying to be a douche....was just curious as to if you were saying it was easier to get a gun at a younger age? (i.e. if you are 18, vice 21) |
I didn't think you were being douchey at all. I was indulging in hyperbole for the sake of agreeing with RANN and being self-deprecating in reply to you. The fact is that an 18 year old can walk into a gun shop and, while he might have to wait for two-weeks to obtain a fire-arm, he can legally acquire it before legally acquiring alcohol.
I know an 18 year-old can still acquire booze more easily than he can a fire-arm but the merit of RANN's argument resides in the legality of being able to purchase something the only use for which is the taking of another person's life; regardless of background checks and waiting periods. |
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| DJ RANN |
| quote: | Originally posted by EddieZilker
I realize you're taking issue with my middle of the road stance but I actually agree with this. I really, honestly believe that the purchasing of firearms should be much more heavily restricted but disagree with an outright ban on them. I don't think that it should be easier to purchase guns than it is a beer. |
I don't think guns should be banned outright either; for instance you can legally own as many guns as you want in the UK if you can substantiate why you need them (hunting, farming etc) and go through the stringent permit processes.
There just should not be any way for civilians to purchase military grade weaponry and assualt rifles to hunt animals or for target practice.
It's absolutely insane that you can buy guns whose only purpose is to kill as many people in as short a time as possible. The arguments for them still being available are nonsense. |
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| tubularbills |
Here's what I'm a little concerned about. a knee-jerk reaction. It is a very plausable situation that this guy was off his mental rocker, and would not have been able to get firearms (because there are rules like that...if something came up in the background check that he was mentally unstable, he could not purchase [legally]).
Now, if we start making rash decisions in gov't across the board, without knowing these details until later (i.e. changing laws), then we've done a bit of injustice.
there really needs to be a lot more details about this case (and the oregon shooting one) before anything really needs to be done. so in the mean time, people need to just sit back, relax, grieve however they want to grieve, and let the investigation play out.
if, after all is said and done and it's been identified that something needs to be changed, then make that change then. not now. all this debate stuff is fun and all (for those who enjoy it), but you cannot expect any kind of rash legal action to be done at this stage.
When it comes to guns, I'm really liberal/passive. If you want a gun, sure go for it - go get one (legally). I'm not a fan of having more gun control laws. However, on the flip side, having said that, I will personally never get one myself (unless military action requires). Because as a mature, responsible adult, I see no need for a firearm in my life (again outside of military requirements, if there are any at said juncture). |
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| Halcyon+On+On |
| quote: | Originally posted by DJ RANN
, I am seriously disappointed in certain people's attitudes on here (not to single any out but I expected better from Eddie and Hal). |
What? Everything in your post was spot-on, as usual. Are you just weirded out that I happen to own a gun, despite the fact that I think there ought to be much, much tighter rules and hurdles for obtaining one? |
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| tubularbills |
| quote: | Originally posted by DJ RANN
There just should not be any way for civilians to purchase military grade weaponry |
this is also something I agree with. |
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| narcism |
This is interesting:
| quote: | | More Americans die in gun homicides and suicides in six months than have died in the last 25 years in every terrorist attack and the wars in Afghanistan and Iraq combined. |
Source: http://www.nytimes.com/2012/12/16/o...d=tw-share&_r=0 |
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| Intellekshual |
Morgan Freeman’s take on what happened yesterday :
“You want to know why. This may sound cynical, but here’s why.
It’s because of the way the media reports it. Flip on the news and watch how we treat the Batman theater shooter and the Oregon mall shooter like celebrities. Dylan Klebold and Eric Harris are household names, but do you know the name of a single *victim* of Columbine? Disturbed
people who would otherwise just off themselves in their basements see the news and want to top it by doing something worse, and going out in a memorable way. Why a grade school? Why children? Because he’ll be remembered as a horrible monster, instead of a sad nobody.
CNN’s article says that if the body count “holds up”, this will rank as the second deadliest shooting behind Virginia Tech, as if statistics somehow make one shooting worse than another. Then they post a video interview of third-graders for all the details of what they saw and heard while the shootings were happening. Fox News has plastered the killer’s face on all their reports for hours. Any articles or news stories yet that focus on the victims and ignore the killer’s identity? None that I’ve seen yet. Because they don’t sell. So congratulations, sensationalist media, you’ve just lit the fire for someone to top this and knock off a day care center or a maternity ward next.
You can help by forgetting you ever read this man’s name, and remembering the name of at least one victim. You can help by donating to mental health research instead of pointing to gun control as the problem. You can help by turning off the news.” |
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| djnitride |
I think the real question is what was his mother thinking and what reason did she have to own the guns she did?
I don't think guns should be banned outright but you should need a very good reason to get one, a psychological evaluation, and in depth background check.
As for assault weapons I can't really think of one legit reason to own one... They need to be EXTREMELY difficult to acquire if they are to remain legal.
We need to regulate who can acquire these weapons or we will continue to see this time and time again. |
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| tubularbills |
| quote: | Originally posted by djnitride
I think the real question is what was his mother thinking and what reason did she have to own the guns she did? |
again, why details of an investigation need to be brought to light before anything is done in regards to even thinking about changing laws. |
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| Halcyon+On+On |
| quote: | Originally posted by tubularbills
again, why details of an investigation need to be brought to light before anything is done in regards to even thinking about changing laws. |
Not unreasonable, but this happened mere months after the Aurora shooting, and even longer after the killing in Arizona. When the is the right time to change the laws? When it affects you? |
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| tubularbills |
| quote: | Originally posted by Halcyon+On+On
Not unreasonable, but this happened mere months after the Aurora shooting, and even longer after the killing in Arizona. When the is the right time to change the laws? When it affects you? |
No, I think when it becomes more of an occurance, I guess? I don't know - I really don't know what the right avenue should be. I would just rather some rational decisions be made, rather than some knee-jerk reaction.
these kinds of events are a tragedy - they always are....but they don't happen all the time, you know? Yes, I understand lots of folks get killed every day due to gun violence. not as many thought that die from other causes, you know?
I'm not an expert and firearms by any means. |
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| tubularbills |
| quote: | Originally posted by Halcyon+On+On
Not unreasonable, but this happened mere months after the Aurora shooting, and even longer after the killing in Arizona. When the is the right time to change the laws? When it affects you? |
Likewise, what kinds of laws need to be changed? every person that has done these killings has had some kind of mental anquish/problem/etc...
aren't there already laws that restrict someone from getting firearms that have a mental insability?
Aside from these assault weapons that have no real use outside of military use (and even then....really? ), the issue is that people who have these mental anquishes are using violence as a means to let go of whatever their problem is. how is there a law to regulate that sort of behavior? can there be one? should there be one?
if these people are determined (and derailed) enough to inflict some sort of violence on people, they're going to find a way. it's really sad :( |
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