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Matrix Revolutions (pg. 12)
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| Psy-Trancer |
| neo is jesus...sacrafices himself for his ppl....the architect is god.... |
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| djSlain |
| quote: | Originally posted by Psy-Trancer
ummm its trilogy..meaning only 3...so its finished and the ending is quite simple...neo is dead...if none of u ppl noticed most of the story is based on the bible.....and wtv...im lazy now...lol |
jesus raved in zion? |
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| Psy-Trancer |
| yeh he was bored....lol... |
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| whiskers |
| quote: | Originally posted by Psy-Trancer
yeh he was bored....lol... |
but he wasn't sancho!!!!!! |
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| astroboy |
| quote: | Originally posted by Psy-Trancer
neo is jesus...sacrafices himself for his ppl....the architect is god.... |
That's an obvious one... but have you thought about Neo as Satan?
The architect is the creator (God). The matrix is a perfect world where people live in ignorant bliss, but are slaves - there is no real potential for them to grow or explore or express their curiosity (for this very reason the first matrices didn't work)... Thus the matrix is the Garden of Eden (=heaven). The matrix could finally work by incorporating an avenue (Neo) for people to express their curiosity, to allow them to learn, grow and evolve... Thus Neo is the Serpent in the garden that gives people the fruit from the tree of knowledge and allows them to "fall from god" to earth (which is not quite hell, but definitely dirtier and more real than the cold clinical world of the matrix). It is a world that is less perfect, but more free and more real.
Thus:
Architect = God
Matrix = Heaven
Neo = Satan (of course you have to take away the a priori biblical assumption that satan/the serpent is evil)
The machines including the architect didn't have a real understanding of the purpose of "The One" and how it worked, only the oracle does. The architect sees the "Neo" mechanism as a device designed to keep the world in a cyclical, steady state. However the oracle knows that human growth/evolution is working on a macro scale that transcends the cycle... perhaps each incarnation of "The One" is more powerful than the previous (Buddhism) - At one stage the oracle says something like "I don't know what you're waiting for... your next life maybe". This process of reincarnation is to continue until enough development has taken place for the system to achieve enlightenment and its occupants can enter Nirvana (in this case a state of equilibrium between man and machine). Neo reaches a state of evolution where he is able to break the man-machine barrier (perhaps caused by Smith trying to assimilate him). Human growth (which is beyond the machines' understanding) is also driving machine development/evolution... Smith is the peak of this and has become more human than any machine, learning to grow (a biological characteristic). Note: his growth occurs by the most primitive biological growth process - replication (it is ironic to note that he compared human growth to viruses in the first matrix and now is himself acting like a virus). When both become one and return to the source the cycle is transcended and enlightenment reached.... phew... |
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| whiskers |
| quote: | Originally posted by astroboy
perhaps each incarnation of "The One" is more powerful than the previous (Buddhism) - At one stage the oracle says something like "I don't know what you're waiting for... your next life maybe". |
well, yes and no. she tells him he's not the one, 'in your next life, maybe'
and as i see it, his 'next life' is at the end of m1 when mr. smith shoots him in the chest and he reincarnates.
man, i must see revolutions again, that was just too much to grasp in one sitting... i'm thinking IMAX.... *drool* |
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| astroboy |
| quote: | Originally posted by whiskers
well, yes and no. she tells him he's not the one, 'in your next life, maybe'
and as i see it, his 'next life' is at the end of m1 when mr. smith shoots him in the chest and he reincarnates.
man, i must see revolutions again, that was just too much to grasp in one sitting... i'm thinking IMAX.... *drool* |
Or alternatively... As in Buddhist/Hindu mythology the soul gets closer to enlightenment with each incarnation. So each of the previous "Neo's" in the preceding matrices has been stronger and the device of neo has become closer and closer to being "The one". When in M1 the Oracle tells Neo he is not yet The One. "I don't know what you're waiting for," she says. "In your next life, maybe." I think she isn't talking about Neo' own clinical death at the hands of Smith and his subsequent resurrection. I think she is talking about the continually reincarnated Neo evolving into THE ONE , something she knows is inevitable (something she worked into the original concept of the cyclical matrix). In my opinion he doesn't make the full transition to becoming The One until the end of Reloaded. |
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| whiskers |
| sorry, i prefer not to apply buddhist philosophy to sci fi movies, no matter how applicable it might be. |
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| Alccode |
Here are some of my thoughts on the movie, in no particular order.
Spoilers, of course, but if you've read the thread so far, then everything's spoiled for ya pretty much.
LOL occrider !!!! I totally agree on the awesome Sentinel and Giant Drill acting. But you forgot to add the Rocket Launcher wielded by the politically/gender-correct (female) commandos, OMG an Oscar right there! :crazy: :haha:
Did it occur to anyone else that the Zion infantry, with their helmets and gear, looked exactly like the rebels in Star Wars? (not the prequels)
I was sickened by the judeo-christian overtones ... when Neo "dies", and the light enters into him, did you folks notice a CROSS appear on his chest!? What the hell! Also, the way he was lying down, with his arms stretched out, and his legs together, -- not to mention his bloody face and the cloth over his blinded eyes -- made him look like he was being crucified!! It was SO obvious, I wanted to puke. They might as well have engraved "jesus" or "christ" on his forehead.
As a side note, I was mildly amused that the Zionists were all christians or somesuch, as every other scene in Zion involved a character spewing "Oh My God" or "Jesus H. Christ" etc. What was mildly amusing about this was that I was surprised that humans would still believe in the judeo-christian God and bible after the entire earth destroyed, 99% of the human race dead, machines having took over the world, etc. etc.!! :toothless
It would have been more believable if they had some sort of pseudo-machine religion, where they half-hated, half-revered the machines, treating them as Very Angry Gods. It would have been GREAT if, instead of spewing out the disgusting line of "JESUS H. CHRIST!" by that one Hammer crew member, he yelled out instead: "By The Lord Mechanitron!" :haha:
Someone explain to me what the train station, "in-between-the-matrix-and-the-real-world" is? I mean, how can a program (train station) be HALFWAY into the real world? Unless they meant, (which I assume is the answer), that it was part of the machine world/mainframe/computer network but independent of the matrix per se, thus "halfway" between the matrix and the real world.
Thought that the part where Trinity flies the hovership above the clouds was awesome! Noticed the moon, too, very nice touch.
And for you people who hated the new Oracle, THE OLD ORACLE'S ACTRESS DIED for christ's sake, so lay off on the oracle!!!!! Though I was very disappointed that they tried to justify the change of actress in the movie!! ("I don't recognize my face in the mirror" or whatever the exact line was) Couldn't they have just trusted the audience to "gloss over" the change, and pretend it was the old oracle? In any case, I actually liked the new oracle actress. Did a very good job of filling in the original oracle's shoes.
What is puzzling to me:
1.) since the prophecy was for Neo to "RETURN" to the Source, and since Neo was created by the Architect for the equation crap blahblah, WHY and HOW was he human!!?? (and if he was human, how could he return to the source? Unless he came from it...?) :conf:
A stupid idea/answer:
Neo is the result of some eugenics/cybernetics project by the machines where they instilled his "The One" powers so that he could fulfill the Architect's role for him. I.e. implanted something in his brain so he could "see" machines, blahblah, and, uh, the fact he could stop them was because he would send an "overriding command" for the machine systems to shutdown, via his implant. Anyway, when all was said and done, the "Deus Ex Machina" took Neo's body and "recycled" it, or at least took it back for re-engineering or re-incarnating, or whatever.
2.) when the smith/neo fight is finished, the oracle was left lying down in the crater in the rain. What was the significance of that!? Was it merely that since Smith "took over" the oracle, that now with his death, she is "released"? But in that case, why wasn't everyone else "released" that he took over, just the oracle? :conf:
3.) the powers of "The One" were supposed to be such that he could "alter the matrix as he saw fit". So in essence, he could "see" the code and change it at will. BUT, in the train station, the trainmaster-hobo said, "I built this place, it's built on my rules, blahblah" and hits Neo hard. But shouldn't The One be unimpeded by the train station, even if it's "outside" the matrix? After all, he can "see" code and alter it at will... so what gives.
4.) this relates to the previous one. I'm disappointed that The One's powers are so limited. He's supposed to be able to do whatever he wants, but in the end, all he can do is (a) fight really good and (b) fly. Oh, and resurrect Trinity in Reloaded. Anyway, "ALTER THE MATRIX AS HE SAW FIT" means, to me, Altering the Matrix as He Saw Fit (i.e., just that), so that entails stuff like, (a) instant teleportation from one location to another, (b) rearranging buildings or rooms or any physical space, (c) deleting programs or changing them on whim, and so on, basically ANYTHING. For example, (geek alert) if you think of the Matrix in programming terms, say that "people" are represented by instantiations of a class, "Person" class, that contains a "Location" member variable. If Neo could "see" code and alter it at will, he could have easily changed his own "Location" variable whenever he wanted to, to whatever he wanted to.
OK enough typing... though this movie has potential for a lot more talking!! :) |
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| whiskers |
| quote: | Originally posted by Alccode
And for you people who hated the new Oracle, THE OLD ORACLE'S ACTRESS DIED for christ's sake, so lay off on the oracle!!!!! Though I was very disappointed that they tried to justify the change of actress in the movie!! ("I don't recognize my face in the mirror" or whatever the exact line was) Couldn't they have just trusted the audience to "gloss over" the change, and pretend it was the old oracle? In any case, I actually liked the new oracle actress. Did a very good job of filling in the original oracle's shoes.
2.) when the smith/neo fight is finished, the oracle was left lying down in the crater in the rain. What was the significance of that!?
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a couple of things...
yes, i also didn't like the oracle trying to justify her change... but i agree that she did a very good job, 2nd best after guess who... mr. smith. although i still like the first oracle better.
and about the lying down in the crater part... that really baffled me too, i was like "WTF!"
also, what is Seraph supposed to be? agent smith claims they fought and etc.... i think this whole merovingian situation is just too bananas - it doesn't really belong in the movie.
but i think the best ending would be for EVERYONE, and i mean EVERYONE AND EVERYTHING to die, be wiped out from the face of the earth... maybe anti-climatic, but at least that would balance out the equations. |
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| digitalbreach |
did not top the original or reloaded. then again reloaded was just a setup for revolutions. which is y I had great expectations for this final movie. I mean what else was expected of moviegoers and matrix fanatics after leaving all those unanswered questions in reloaded.
dislike:
new oracle, 'mouse' look alike, jet li look alike
screenplay was horrible. killed some of the main characters.
Trinity:'took me 10 mins. to tie my boot'. among other stupid quotes.
final battle with Smith overdone with cg. didn't care much for it. and that punch to Smith's face same scene in 'Hero' with the raindrops and everything. :whip:
Neo acquiring daredevil vision. htf???
overall movie seemed too rush..loopholes and unanswered questions (no I don't expect them too unanswer everything but what's the point of making a final movie if new questions come up or new characters are introduced)
likes:
war on Zion. Monica belluci :eyes: mami!!
few fighting scenes including some in the final battle.
spoilers...
Smith does refer to himself as the oracles son. right before he infects her. so hence the birth of a program from another program. same with that little indian girl @ the train station. >>machines resembling humans more and more.
sine Neo and smith are direct opposites and smith dies then so does Neo. Its the whole never ending story of good vs evil and not being able to exist withouth one another. 'the one' may come but just not in Neo form.
thoughts.
now that the 'one' is dead than the agreement and rampage zion. what keeps them from doing it.??? |
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| Alccode |
| quote: | Originally posted by whiskers
also, what is Seraph supposed to be? agent smith claims they fought and etc.... i think this whole merovingian situation is just too bananas - it doesn't really belong in the movie.
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Right, I just remembered -- Seraph said something like, "I did beat you before" ... and if agents are supposed to be uber-powerful, that means Seraph must be stronger than an agent! I guess he's really just a beefed-up bodyguard program for the Oracle. As to when exactly he fought Smith in the past, I dunno...
Totally agree on Merovingian. "Just too bananas"... describes it perfectly. :haha:
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but i think the best ending would be for EVERYONE, and i mean EVERYONE AND EVERYTHING to die, be wiped out from the face of the earth... maybe anti-climatic, but at least that would balance out the equations. |
Not really haha, it would totally negate the equation and equate it to 0 or something! :toothless
/expects math treatises on the Matrix "equation balancing." |
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