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Religious debate on Jews/Passion of the Christ (pg. 27)
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| paranoik0 |
| quote: | Originally posted by occrider
Sigh ... and he who accepts God is good? Please, spare me the petty generalizations. Being good is not defined by a belief in God just as much as not believing in God does not define evil.
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you've missed this one nellie, explain |
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| albertoR |
| quote: | Originally posted by WhoaNellie1487
That's not true. We know not to sin,and we can control it.
Ah,but a Buddhist monk has already rejected God. That's why he isn't permitted to heaven. |
I think he would be permitted to heaven. In fact, if we would judge by morals and actions, a buddhist monk is way more peaceful, respectful, and overall a better human being the most of the people in the world. Im probably generalizing here, and i don't know any monks, however Buddishm is a very peaceful religion, a monks keep to themselves and are in harmony with nature and everything else. I would believe your God would judge them by the life,morals,decisions and actions they took and not weather they accepted Jesus or not. Im sure there are christians and priests out there more sinful and a buddhist monk.
Also you are stating that the christian religion is the correct one. Im sure in your faith it is. But a buddisht faith is just as strong or stronger than yours, and his beliefs are just as valid. My point is, there is no use in judging who will go to heaven, maybe you should leave God to do that judgement. |
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| occrider |
| quote: | Originally posted by albertoR
Also you are stating that the christian religion is the correct one. Im sure in your faith it is. But a buddisht faith is just as strong or stronger than yours, and his beliefs are just as valid. My point is, there is no use in judging who will go to heaven, maybe you should leave God to do that judgement. |
Ahh but you see this is the crux of the argument. Christians claim to KNOW how God shall judge those going to heaven because they claim that the bible are the direct words from God. Therefore they can "authoritively" state that those who do not accept Jesus will not go to heaven :rolleyes:. |
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| DigiNut |
I would actually say that a Buddhist's faith would be significantly weaker than a Christian's faith, if we put the same person in either circumstance. Only Christianity has the viruslike self-replicating insecurity that forces people to retreat into their little bubbles when their beliefs are brought into question. Buddhists would generally be more open-minded about life and hence be somewhat more suggestible or malleable.
Of course the silver lining is that although Buddhists could probably be swayed to some other belief system (like Taoism for instance), they would be far too rationally-minded to accept a a dogmatic religion like Christianity as an adult.
I'm not disagreeing with anyone really, what I'm trying to point out is that a Buddhist's confidence (or any other non-Abrahamic faith) comes from a tangible realization of tranquility and inner peace and an openness to new people and new ideas. They are not necessarily "faithful", but they are secure in themselves and therefore would have no use for self-hating Christianity. ;) |
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| albertoR |
| quote: | Originally posted by occrider
Ahh but you see this is the crux of the argument. Christians claim to KNOW how God shall judge those going to heaven because they claim that the bible are the direct words from God. Therefore they can "authoritively" state that those who do not accept Jesus will not go to heaven :rolleyes:. |
The bible is not something that should be taken so literal, even Christians should know this. On top of that, the bible has been translated from the original which was in arameic and hebrew to latin, to all the other languages. Many verses have been changed in that process of translation. So if you think about it, the direct words from God might not be so direct. However a christian may say, a buddhist monk did not follow the 10 commandments so he will burn in the flames of hell. If that's the case, God isnt so merciful afterall, and christianity and derived religions are blind. |
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| biznology |
| quote: | Originally posted by albertoR
I think he would be permitted to heaven. In fact, if we would judge by morals and actions, a buddhist monk is way more peaceful, respectful, and overall a better human being the most of the people in the world. Im probably generalizing here, and i don't know any monks, however Buddishm is a very peaceful religion, a monks keep to themselves and are in harmony with nature and everything else. I would believe your God would judge them by the life,morals,decisions and actions they took and not weather they accepted Jesus or not. Im sure there are christians and priests out there more sinful and a buddhist monk.
Also you are stating that the christian religion is the correct one. Im sure in your faith it is. But a buddisht faith is just as strong or stronger than yours, and his beliefs are just as valid. My point is, there is no use in judging who will go to heaven, maybe you should leave God to do that judgement. |
and yet another caveat of Buddhism towards Christianity or any other religion is that Buddhists are allowed to acknowledge, celebrate or support any other concepts or figures within religions outside of their own. (assuming those practices follow the teachings of Buddhism)
does Christianity? pretty much nil. its hard to feel accepting towards Christianity when so much of its 'organized teachings' are based on coercion and the exclusion of different groups of people.
an interesting conundrum: differences in Eastern and *more* Western religion are due to the difficulty of travel and the isolation of concepts and ideals. if Jesus were made aware of the teachings of Buddha, Confucius, et al - do you really think he would say they were far from what he strove towards?
(of course that would require devout worshippers to separate themselves from the vague memories of the Bible for imaginations sake - and assume they knew much about other religions) :conf: |
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| WhoaNellie1487 |
| quote: | Originally posted by paranoik0
you've missed this one nellie, explain |
Go look it up in the Bible my friend,there you will find all the answers to your questions.
Anyway, I'll explain what I choose to explain. |
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| WhoaNellie1487 |
| quote: | Originally posted by albertoR
I think he would be permitted to heaven. In fact, if we would judge by morals and actions, a buddhist monk is way more peaceful, respectful, and overall a better human being the most of the people in the world. Im probably generalizing here, and i don't know any monks, however Buddishm is a very peaceful religion, a monks keep to themselves and are in harmony with nature and everything else. I would believe your God would judge them by the life,morals,decisions and actions they took and not weather they accepted Jesus or not. Im sure there are christians and priests out there more sinful and a buddhist monk.
Also you are stating that the christian religion is the correct one. Im sure in your faith it is. But a buddisht faith is just as strong or stronger than yours, and his beliefs are just as valid. My point is, there is no use in judging who will go to heaven, maybe you should leave God to do that judgement. |
Buddhists don't believe in God, therefore they haven't accepted Jesus into their heart. Again,that's the only way into heaven.
A Buddhist has already committed a sin, the first commandment. But, that's not what keeps him from heaven, what keeps him from heaven is rejecting Jesus/God. So, no he won't be permitted to heaven.
Again, It's not how much sin you've committed,or how little. It's if you've repented for your sins, and if you've accepted Jesus into your heart. I'm sure many priests,and even a lot of people who call themselves Christians won't make it to heaven either.
I'm not judging each person,but I am telling you clearly what the Bible states. You all are asking me,so I'm just answering your questions. If you don't like the answers,that's not my problem. |
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| MisterOpus1 |
| quote: | Originally posted by WhoaNellie1487
God knows our hearts, You think really differently when you're staring death in the face. |
Pascal's Wager, once again:
http://www.abarnett.demon.co.uk/atheism/wager.html
Why do Christians feel it necessary to "scare" people into conversion? Truly, this is in direct contradiction to the "peaceful, loving" God they continually profess. If God does, indeed, know my heart, as you point out below, He will most certainly know my intentions for trying to be as logical and as helpful on this planet as I can be. If that is not good enough for Him, then I would proclaim this God to be illogical and irrational (as it is clearly seen by his allowances and actions in a number of OT stories), and I want no part of Him. Period.
However, I do tend to believe God is a little bit above immaturity and irrationality. But that is merely my belief, and I freely acknowledge it as such.
| quote: | | That's not true. We know not to sin,and we can control it. |
You did not answer my question. It may or may not be controllable - that is not the point. What is the point is the action of sin. An addict continually performs the sin - a serial killer continually kills innocent children after he rapes them incessantly. But since he is a believer in Christ, regardless of his sins, he will be able to enter Heaven. Christ knows this killer's heart, and knows his beliefs are real, and somehow finds it okay to excuse his atrocious and evil behavior. And as you point out:
| quote: | | Ah,but a Buddhist monk has already rejected God. That's why he isn't permitted to heaven. |
Despite the wonderful deeds this monk has performed. If this is true, then I understand your point. Thank you for making this clear. It truly says wonders about this loving, peaceful, rational God.
| quote: | | Nope. Why would they need to be in jail? |
I believe this one flew completely over your head. Let's back up and see what you said:
| quote: | | Once you make it right with God, you don't do those things. You have no desire to. |
So it follows that only those who don't make it right with God, more specifically by accepting Jesus, are the ones who will sin and do evil. Therefore, only the atheists and non-Christians should be the ones committing sin, because Jesus is not in their hearts, and they should be the only ones occupying our jails.
I'm clear now. Thanks. |
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| MisterOpus1 |
| quote: | Originally posted by WhoaNellie1487
Go look it up in the Bible my friend,there you will find all the answers to your questions.
Anyway, I'll explain what I choose to explain. |
Can you show us where? There's quite a bit there.
Are you avoiding questions again? Please don't. |
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| TiestoFanMatt |
I find it a shame that so many people see the extremity of religion. I believe that you are judged on whether you have lived a life that was best to yourself and the people you know. You will be judged on ur life in accordance with how you treat people, help others, give to people in need, being unselfish. I do not think that if people do not accept Jesus they wont go into heaven, because whats wrong with this? they have done no harm to this earth if they have lived as i said, a good and decente life.
I know where Nellie is coming from because it seems he takes the bible literally, which is a shame because i see the bible as a teaching tool, a guide. GOd should not be feared.
Some people need to just think when they type coz its as if they are taking piss all the time, and it is quite insulting because religion is a part of allot of peoples lives, and some comments on here (wont mention anyway) have been very insulting (although i know that was not the intention).
If you wish to not follow religion, then thats great because allot of countries in todays world has free will, something that for so long all of us have been searching for, and also god gave you free will (or i BELIEVE he did) to choose whether to believe in him or not.
Just dont think this argument will ever be resolved because religion is about faith, faith in yourself and in your god, and science cannot measure faith.
Good descussion btw:) |
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| WhoaNellie1487 |
| quote: | Originally posted by MisterOpus1
Pascal's Wager, once again:
http://www.abarnett.demon.co.uk/atheism/wager.html
Why do Christians feel it necessary to "scare" people into conversion? Truly, this is in direct contradiction to the "peaceful, loving" God they continually profess. If God does, indeed, know my heart, as you point out below, He will most certainly know my intentions for trying to be as logical and as helpful on this planet as I can be. If that is not good enough for Him, then I would proclaim this God to be illogical and irrational (as it is clearly seen by his allowances and actions in a number of OT stories), and I want no part of Him. Period.
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We aren't trying to scare you into anything,we're just telling you what's going on,and how it is. Big difference.
| quote: | | You did not answer my question. It may or may not be controllable - that is not the point. What is the point is the action of sin. An addict continually performs the sin - a serial killer continually kills innocent children after he rapes them incessantly. But since he is a believer in Christ, regardless of his sins, he will be able to enter Heaven. Christ knows this killer's heart, and knows his beliefs are real, and somehow finds it okay to excuse his atrocious and evil behavior. And as you point out: |
Ask again then.
Again, we choose to sin or not to sin.
Of course there is a difference between ignorance,and stupidity. But, the fact of the matter is for those who know they are sinning,they know not to do it, and they can control it. It might be hard,but they can.
No you are totally not getting what I'm saying. You know, Satan believed/believes in Christ aswell,he knows Jesus and God are real. But, he isn't a follower, he isn't saved by them. There's a difference. If you are saved by Jesus Christ,then you will be permitted to heaven. Only God knows our hearts, you keep forgetting these details,friend.
| quote: | | Despite the wonderful deeds this monk has performed. If this is true, then I understand your point. Thank you for making this clear. It truly says wonders about this loving, peaceful, rational God. |
You are totally messed up on this. Shall I repeat once more? GOOD DEEDS WILL NOT GET YOU INTO HEAVEN. If that were the case,then why did Jesus even die on the cross? eh?
I quoted an old quote for you " The pathway to hell is paved with good intentions. "
Good deeds won't get you to heaven.
| quote: | So it follows that only those who don't make it right with God, more specifically by accepting Jesus, are the ones who will sin and do evil. Therefore, only the atheists and non-Christians should be the ones committing sin, because Jesus is not in their hearts, and they should be the only ones occupying our jails.
I'm clear now. Thanks. |
No,you aren't clear. Listen carefully, then you might comprehend what I'm telling you.
Those who are not saved by Jesus Christ,and have not repented for their sins, will not go to heaven. Is that clear? Ok,Good lets move on.
We all commit sin, we're all humans and we all make mistakes.Christians,atheists,Muslims,Jewish..etc etc etc. We all our sinners. But, some of us repent for our sin. There is a difference..
Now,you should be clear.
( to add, I hope you know this isn't a joke to me or others here.) |
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