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Religious debate on Jews/Passion of the Christ (pg. 7)
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| Heinz |
ok, the statement i said, where opus's long article 'no one is going to read that". if u thought beyond the cover of the book, i was indirectly saying, it very long. i read, very good, but took me more than 10 minutes.
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if i dont respond to some of your posts, dont take it that i have no answer to your arguements. its just, its hard to answer every single one of you. i try to answer 5 or 6 of you in one posts at a time, but its hard. ESPCIALLY when its me debating against dozens of you. ive only have 2 or 3 people help back me up. and understand, i am no scholar, there may be things that i myself simply dont know.
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Proof of god. its hard for me to prove to you that god exists. i know that throughout my posts, i do throw evidence out of his existance. so, u cannot say that i do not support my belief in god. im very much amatuer. only 16 years old, only studied the bible a few years. theres so much to read and understand. but ive tried to back my posts up as best i can. perhaps, if you debated with a true scholar, you would have all your questions answered. and im serious. im just a student in the subject, you need to talk to the teacher. any christian scholar who has studied bible scripture and has been taught by proffessors. get it??
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when i said, "if the responses are intelligent and dont contain any personal insults of me, and my beliefs, ill keep responding. i dont insult in any way, you, or your secular, atheistic, or pagan views. so dont insult mine."
i wasnt saying, that your arguements are insulting me. its the few people that come in here, with illigetamit arguements, insults, and personal opinions with no backing...
Cyprusking
"Guess what.. im one of the happiest people in the world.. and its becuase im not barred by the stupid rules of religion.
IT!!!
Live your life in peace and happiness without fearing god or jesus... or whoever rambled on thouasands of years ago."
etc etc etc......im dont feel like going through all five pages.
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im going to take a nap, and ill respond to the arguements later. i know that all the FOCUS is on me. like opus said, just hard to debate me against dozens of you. with a couple people backing me up, while 30 i debate against. |
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| trancepixie17 |
| quote: | Originally posted by MisterOpus1
I'm willing to bet that a few interested and educated folks here decided to do just that. It was a clear logical rebuttal, supported by sound research, to some common arguments towards those who believe you're unlikely to be as healthy as a Christian.
Why did you choose not to read it?
** First of all I do 11 page outlines everynight, yours was just friggin' boring!!**
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Incorrect assessment. As a few have stated here already, the burden is on YOU to prove that which you believe, not the opposite. As Arbiter so eloquently stated:
Your response, please.
And I believe priveye03 gave a nice article indicating the research aspects of "love". There are others similar to that one. Your response?
** As Heinz said, there are many people against him and a few with him, back off.**
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I understand how this may appear to you, but I do not believe a great many things in the bible reveal too many "truths" at all. There are a plethora of contradictions, historical and logical, throughout the Bible's literature, which gives very little credibility to it's "truths" overall. I'll but give you just a couple with the versus you gave us.
Incidentally, I find it unfortunate that you have to back up your stance with Bible verses, considering many here do not see it as a credible source in the first place. But let's continue:
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Acts 13:39
And by him all that believe are justified from all things, from which ye could not be justified by the law of Moses.
One says that you'll never be forgiven on one particular aspect (Holy Ghost), the other says you will from ALL THINGS. Interesting.
Let's read Matthew 24:14-15 in it's entirety:
24:14
And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.
24:15
When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand:)
Problem: In Matthew 10:23, Jesus said the end would come BEFORE the gospel reached all cities of Israel. But the gospel, no doubt has been preached across the world regardless (as Paul says in Romans 10:18), yet the world hasn't ended. Gosh, too bad for those Christians, just waiting to die.
I always thought John was on some serious drugs when he wrote Revelation. Nevertheless, it still has some interesting stuff in it, albeit completely ficticious in nature.
I reiterate: in Matthew 10:23, Jesus said the end would come BEFORE the gospel reached all cities of Israel. But the gospel, no doubt has been preached across the world regardless (as Paul says in Romans 10:18), yet the world hasn't ended.
Gosh I just love contradictions!
** God, you are in' annoying!**
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Yeah, he certainly doesn't appear to be an open-minded swell kinda guy, does he?
** I can only speak because i'm Heinz friend in real life, i see him almost everyday. He is a nice guy and if I had to respond to her too i'd freak out.
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I define "scrumptious" as partially soggy Lucky Charms where I've eaten most of the crunchy parts and left the marshmallow bits for last (gotta save the best for the end). My cats define "scrumptious" as drinking the sugary milk from my Lucky Charms bowl when I'm finished.
I guess we all have our own personal subjective definitions we just simply must adhere to.
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Logical fallacy: argumentum ad popularum
http://philosophy.lander.edu/logic/popular.html
What others believe hardly gives credence to what is actually true. Many others thought the earth was flat too. Once sound evidence is presented that indicates otherwise, the majority eventually starts to pay attention. But I guess there are still those who refuse to adhere to reason:
http://www.flat-earth.org/
I certainly hope you do continue responding. But please don't expect anyone to not question your beliefs if you choose to throw your beliefs upon everyone here. It is a debate forum, so please be prepared to debate those beliefs which you have CHOSEN to enlight everyone. |
** I wish to see you to attain to everyone's quote in this thread. Heinz does try to respond but as it has been repeatedly stated before, most are against him. In light of that, you are right, people have their own beliefs. In addition, "One says that you'll never be forgiven on one particular aspect (Holy Ghost), the other says you will from ALL THINGS. Interesting."
~Yes. Very interesting.....because the one thing God will not forgive is Blaspahmies. Pretty sure that's what you have typed, if you believe that. whatever.
In the end, we all have our opinions. Your quotes, wherever they come from , not all of them are factual. Also, heinz is a great philosopher. No, this is not all about him, but you're not the one who started the thread, now did you?!:whip: :happy2: **kiss ma ass** |
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| Cyrus King |
| quote: | Originally posted by WhoaNellie1487
And of course that's only your opinion. |
IT is a growing opinion too. People are realizing its all a bunchof stupid bull that people used to explain their relities. Now we have SCIENCE!!! Thanks "god" for that!
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You cannot compared the Tooth fairy,Santa clause,elves or any of that stuff to Jesus/God. There is a HUGE difference. Jesus died on the cross for us, He gave his life so that we could have life. I don't think the tooth fairy,or any of those other characters did such,or for that fact could do such. To try and compare Jesus to those characters is just an insult. |
No there isnt a huge difference... they are all mythological/ legends that have very little evidence to prove their existence.
Like Arbiter mentioned.. there are CAUSES as to why people beleive things....what has CAUSED you not to beleive in elves and goblins?
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What? Uhm,no that's not true. No one knows when Jesus will return.
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Please do yourself a favour and read soemthing other than the bible.
This hopeless babble of jesus coming back to judge everyone is a crack of bull. Its never going to happen. Get over it.
One word, illogical. |
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| MisterOpus1 |
| quote: | Originally posted by trancepixie17
** I wish to see you to attain to everyone's quote in this thread. |
Am I to understand that you want me to respond to everyone in this thread? Why? I would think that others have done well in responding to opposing Christian views quite well. Do I need to reiterate other's responses, just for you? I think I would need a little more motivation for such.
(Side note: I believe you used the word "attain" incorrectly in your above sentence. Could you clarify?)
| quote: | | Heinz does try to respond but as it has been repeatedly stated before, most are against him. |
Heinz has an opinion that some here find controversal (as it appears do you). Others responded, as did I. If he, you, or anyone else can support their opinions, I am all for it. This is the point of debate.
I'm honestly getting f$cking sick and tired of seeing random people come to the DEBATE FORUM and post opinions that they cannot support with evidence. It's becoming seriously annoying and borderline obnoxious. So I would like to once again state that if you are going to give your opinions on any beliefs you may have in the DEBATE FORUM, be prepared to support those beliefs with evidence. Otherwise, post your unsupported opinions in the Chillout Room along with those that think they created the world's most unhealthy sandwich, wonder what are the drugs of choice, some f$cked up newbie duo named "TOAD@" and are interested in TRANCE, and stories of Mardi Gras!
| quote: | In light of that, you are right, people have their own beliefs. In addition, "One says that you'll never be forgiven on one particular aspect (Holy Ghost), the other says you will from ALL THINGS. Interesting."
~Yes. Very interesting.....because the one thing God will not forgive is Blaspahmies. Pretty sure that's what you have typed, if you believe that. whatever. |
Umm, no, I wasn't referring to "Blaspahmies", as you so state. I was referring to the contradiction itself between the two passages. Do you have a response to the contradiction to the two passages?
| quote: | | In the end, we all have our opinions. Your quotes, wherever they come from , not all of them are factual. |
Indeed we do have opinions. I tend to create opinions, or assertions rather, on things from which I see evidence for. You're completely free to have opinions on anything you wish, of course, but when you bring those opinions out for the public to view, you should do a little better in supporting such opinions. Otherwise, they are not very good sound opinions to have.
| quote: | | Also, heinz is a great philosopher. |
Well if he's a great philosopher, how is it that you are rushing so quickly to his aid for support? Good philosophers would most certainly be able to support themselves with sound logic, a vital part of philosophy.
| quote: | | No, this is not all about him, but you're not the one who started the thread, now did you?! |
And that pertains to...what?
So you're saying that since I didn't start the thread, I can therefore not comment and criticize what I deem a lack of logic on other's opinions within the thread, or even the thread starter?
That makes sense.
| quote: | | :whip: :happy2: **kiss ma ass** |
Well now that's not very Christian of you to say now, is it? |
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| anuneventrade |
| quote: | Originally posted by WhoaNellie1487
You cannot compared the Tooth fairy,Santa clause,elves or any of that stuff to Jesus/God. |
Correct me if I'm wrong... but I think he just did. ;)
| quote: | | There is a HUGE difference. Jesus died on the cross for us, He gave his life so that we could have life. I don't think the tooth fairy,or any of those other characters did such,or for that fact could do such. To try and compare Jesus to those characters is just an insult. |
Considering it's a part of mythology and so is Santa Clause, and children truly believe in his existence, technically, you can compare them.
| quote: | | What? Uhm,no that's not true. No one knows when Jesus will return. |
Sounds kind of flaky to me. :stongue:
With the scientific knowledge we have now, that's really not plausible considering people prefer to have hard proof and evidence. But then again, to you Christianity isn't even a religion.
| quote: | | Incidentally, I find it unfortunate that you have to back up your stance with Bible verses, considering many here do not see it as a credible source in the first place. |
Good point my mate! Back up the argument with more than just the bible. Could be somewhat difficult.
| quote: | | heinz is a great philosopher. |
A 16 year old who admits that he has no correct foundation for his claims because he has not gone through the complete process of educating himself now qualifies as a philosopher? :rolleyes: |
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| MisterOpus1 |
Oops, I missed a couple of your statements in the quoted post:
| quote: | Originally posted by trancepixie17
** First of all I do 11 page outlines everynight, yours was just friggin' boring!!** |
Funny how fundie Christians such as yourself tend not to read opposing views. Nothing shocking really.
| quote: | | ** As Heinz said, there are many people against him and a few with him, back off.** |
Or what? You'll go into an immature tirade over a debate forum?
And this did not address my rebuttal on measuring love. Your response, please.
| quote: | | ** God, you are in' annoying!** |
I know, logic tends to do that to the village idiots.
And by the way, you are in' immature! Tit for tat is oh so fun.
| quote: | | ** I can only speak because i'm Heinz friend in real life, i see him almost everyday. He is a nice guy and if I had to respond to her too i'd freak out. |
Well that makes 3 of us. But you need not worry, she's been properly suspended for now.
This sure is fun. |
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| MisterOpus1 |
| quote: | Originally posted by MisterOpus1
some f$cked up newbie duo named "TOAD@" and are interested in TRANCE |
Allow me to back up on this before I leave for the day. I duly apologize to these individuals named "TOAD@" for calling them f$cked up. I admittedly have not read that thread, nor do I really care. I just found the name rather goofy. Nevertheless my statement was out of line.
Just thought I'd mention this before I receive any specific backlash from that statement. |
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| ahlamalek |
| not really wanting to interrupt the discussion, I really want to know if some of you guys think that Jesus is a "Mythological figure" and the the bible is 'fake' or whatever else you want to call it. |
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| anuneventrade |
| quote: | Originally posted by MisterOpus1
Oops, I missed a couple of your statements in the quoted post: |
Why do I not see those lines? :conf: *shrugs* I skim over pixie's entries anyway since they rarely have any significance.
| quote: | | I really want to know if some of you guys think that Jesus is a "Mythological figure" and the the bible is 'fake' or whatever else you want to call it. |
I believe he was an actual person, but not the son of God. His "rising" after his death seems ficticious to me. I don't understand what sort of significance there might be with someone rising after three days only to die/disappear again.
I think that he, along with others throughout history (as aforementioned, Krishna, Buddha, etc..) were quite intelligent people, and considering the education levels that were among commoners at the time, their "revalations" seemed extraordinary. Humans lived among earth for a long time before someone came along and said "Thou shalt not kill". Was it really necessary to have it "etched in stone" so to speak? Do we really have such a low confidence in our own species that we think that without the verbalization of such a "commandment" we wouldn't be able through instinct to not kill?
The bible is missing quite a few years of Jesus' life, (I think from ages 18-32 or something of the sort) and that irks me.
I don't believe in this nonsense of Noah's arc etc etc. I just think it was used as a fairy tale to tell little children in an attempt to get them to not sin.
The bible, imho, is blown out of proportion.
*edit* We can continue this conversation on MSN if you'd like :) |
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| tranceaholic |
| quote: | Originally posted by ahlamalek
not really wanting to interrupt the discussion, I really want to know if some of you guys think that Jesus is a "Mythological figure" and the the bible is 'fake' or whatever else you want to call it. |
most people here dont believe in his existance..and believe that the bible is full of mistakes..all people here pretty much have thier mind set..i would like to ask though..do u guys believe in miracles and if so have any explainaition for it..or are miracles only conincedance? or there isnt such things.. |
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| Cyrus King |
| quote: | Originally posted by tranceaholic
most people here dont believe in his existance..and believe that the bible is full of mistakes..all people here pretty much have thier mind set..i would like to ask though..do u guys believe in miracles and if so have any explainaition for it..or are miracles only conincedance? or there isnt such things.. |
Miracles, being "lucky", all these types of labelled events that have some sort of symbol or meaning to them is bull in my eyes. If you were almost hit by a car.. you were ALMOST hit...luck (which cant even be logically evidenced as a phenomena) has nothing to do with the probability in which you were close to being it in the first place.
Miracles fall into the same superstitious category of labeling things that work in the favour of specific people. |
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| anuneventrade |
FOR THE RECORD:
| quote: | Main Entry: my·thol·o·gy
Pronunciation: mi-'thä-l&-jE
Function: noun
Inflected Form(s): plural -gies
Etymology: French or Late Latin; French mythologie, from Late Latin mythologia interpretation of myths, from Greek, legend, myth, from mythologein to relate myths, from mythos + logos speech -- more at LEGEND |
Is Jesus not a legend?
| quote: | 1 : an allegorical narrative
2 : a body of myths : as a : the myths dealing with the gods, demigods, and legendary heroes of a particular people b : MYTHOS 2 |
Is he not the son of God, therefor making him a God? Is he not the hero of Christians?
| quote: | 3 : a branch of knowledge that deals with myth
4 : a popular belief or assumption that has grown up around someone or something
- my·thol·o·ger /-j&r/ noun
- my·thol·o·gist /-jist/ noun |
DING DING DING! Wouldn't the religion of Christianity be considered a belief that grew around someone (aka Jesus)?
I think it's a logical comparison.
| quote: | | most people here dont believe in his existance..and believe that the bible is full of mistakes..all people here pretty much have thier mind set..i would like to ask though..do u guys believe in miracles and if so have any explainaition for it..or are miracles only conincedance? or there isnt such things.. |
Life is a miracle, but that's just my opinion, and I have reasons for having it :) |
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