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My evolution theory involving fa...*ahem* i mean homosexuality (pg. 6)
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| Steven Hays |
I pretty much agree with everything Slylee is saying! My input:
As a psychology major I've been exposed to many gay deliberations and readings about what homesexuality is. I don't think there is a normal person per se. Being straight is not normal, and being homosexual isn't either. There is nothing wrong with being either. I do not believe, however, that homosexuality is genetic. It doesn't matter if your beliefs of evolution are negative, but you cannot discount the fact that over history we've all changed by defeating new bacteria and new struggles to help in our survival. The strongest ones prevail and continue to procreate while the weak products die because of their lack of survival traits. My deal on this whole subject is not genetics based but more of a learned behavior. I don't understand how 99% of gays think they were born with it, yet they claim its not a disorder or a disease. Now if they do claim it is then being born gay is plausible--if that makes any sense? We all grow up a product of our environment, and there was something along the life of a homosexual that went differently than the average straight person. Nothing went wrong, but only different. Now back to evolution--the strongest survive and the weak fall. Homosexuals cannot procreate. The single most important thing to a human's existence is missing. So how, through evolutionary terms can there be gays? Wouldn't they all just die out and eventually we'd be left with just straight people? No. Simply put if it were evolution making people gay than they would be born with it, and if it was beneficial for mankind to be gay, more and more people would become gay. Homosexuals serve no benefit to the prolonging of life--the main reason all organisms exist. So why would an organism be born to cease procreation, it can't--there is absolutely no adaptive purpose. Therefore it must be a learned behavior.
This is really sloppy, as I have many thoughts on this issue--they are just hard to write down clearly. Hopefully some sense came of this. I'll try to gather my thoughts better and add sometime later.
;) |
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| Boomer187 |
| quote: | Originally posted by tribu
Not if, instead of being passed on genetically, it was some kind of gene mutation or trait expression |
A consistant gene mutation is not as prevalent as homosexuality. You can get form 1 - 10% of the population as being homosexual. dats a lot. |
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| Vlad |
| quote: | Originally posted by tribu
Not if, instead of being passed on genetically, it was some kind of gene mutation or trait expression |
Actually, if there is a gene it could be passed on through recombination. |
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| Boomer187 |
| quote: | Originally posted by Steven Hays
I pretty much agree with everything Slylee is saying! My input:
As a psychology major I've been exposed to many gay deliberations and readings about what homesexuality is. I don't think there is a normal person per se. Being straight is not normal, and being homosexual isn't either. There is nothing wrong with being either. I do not believe, however, that homosexuality is genetic. It doesn't matter if your beliefs of evolution are negative, but you cannot discount the fact that over history we've all changed by defeating new bacteria and new struggles to help in our survival. The strongest ones prevail and continue to procreate while the weak products die because of their lack of survival traits. My deal on this whole subject is not genetics based but more of a learned behavior. I don't understand how 99% of gays think they were born with it, yet they claim its not a disorder or a disease. Now if they do claim it is then being born gay is plausible--if that makes any sense? We all grow up a product of our environment, and there was something along the life of a homosexual that went differently than the average straight person. Nothing went wrong, but only different. Now back to evolution--the strongest survive and the weak fall. Homosexuals cannot procreate. The single most important thing to a human's existence is missing. So how, through evolutionary terms can there be gays? Wouldn't they all just die out and eventually we'd be left with just straight people? No. Simply put if it were evolution making people gay than they would be born with it, and if it was beneficial for mankind to be gay, more and more people would become gay. Homosexuals serve no benefit to the prolonging of life--the main reason all organisms exist. So why would an organism be born to cease procreation, it can't--there is absolutely no adaptive purpose.
This is really sloppy, as I have many thoughts on this issue--they are just hard to write down clearly. Hopefully some sense came of this. I'll try to gather my thoughts better and add sometime later.
;) |
did you just transfer to a psych major cause it was easy?
it was sloppy, and I don't think you had a point in there. try again? |
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| Vlad |
| quote: | Originally posted by Boomer187
A consistant gene mutation is not as prevalent as homosexuality. You can get form 1 - 10% of the population as being homosexual. dats a lot. |
People can be born with diabetes, and can constract it later on in life, explain that. |
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| starglider |
| quote: | Originally posted by Boomer187
also, wouldn't a homosexual gene die off since those who manifest it do not pass it on? |
Right, but in the case of gay males, the genetic factors that may predispose a man to homosexuality are also passed on to his female relatives, allowing for continued transmission of the genetic information.
In fact, it was even found that a gay man's female relatives may be more likely to have children than a straight man's, implying a potential link between homosexuality and increased fertility of one's immediate family. In this way, although a gay man is much less likely to have children and spread his genes, his mother, sisters and maternal aunts may have more than the average number of children to counteract this.
This kind of thing isn't proven, but the important point is that genetics is an extremely complicated issue and we can't simply assume that a "homosexual gene" would die off for the reason mentioned above. Also keep in mind it is almost certainly not a single gene which dictates homosexuality, but rather several genes, probably on different chromosomes. |
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| Vlad |
| quote: | Originally posted by starglider
Right, but in the case of gay males, the genetic factors that may predispose a man to homosexuality are also passed on to his female relatives, allowing for continued transmission of the genetic information.
In fact, it was even found that a gay man's female relatives may be more likely to have children than a straight man's, implying a potential link between homosexuality and increased fertility of one's immediate family. In this way, although a gay man is much less likely to have children and spread his genes, his mother, sisters and maternal aunts may have more than the average number of children to counteract this.
This kind of thing isn't proven, but the important point is that genetics is an extremely complicated issue and we can't simply assume that a "homosexual gene" would die off for the reason mentioned above. Also keep in mind it is almost certainly not a single gene which dictates homosexuality, but rather several genes, probably on different chromosomes. |
Like I said before, the trait is carried on the X chromosome, and since gay men dont reproduce, their female relatives who do procreate can produce children who are homosexual. If men could reproduce, the chances of those children becoming gay is significantly high since, according to theory, both X chromosomes - between both men - would have that trait or mutation. |
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| dj_mdma |
| quote: | Originally posted by Vlad
People can be born with diabetes, and can constract it later on in life, explain that. |
there are two types of diabetes, and one form (NIDDM) has very little, if any, genetics linked with it as it is caused by environmental aspects, i.e they did not have a genetic predisposition to it as you suggest.
Those with a genetic predisposition to it are more likely to be "born" with it (IDDM)
its complex really.
as for my view on the subject, as far as homosexuality and genetics is concerned, its seems unlikely to be based on genetics, and is more likely to be based on psychological factors.
But some could say that these psychological factors are based on genes...hmmm...well we do know that we don't use 90% of our brains, and that we don't know about what the majority (90% i think) of genes in the human genome do so the answers proabbly in there lol |
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| Floorfiller |
ok i'm not going to pretend to know that much about gay gene studies or whatever...
but i guess i'm just curious what all of you think of this statement..
if being gay is something predisposed...then are other personal traits aswell? i guess i mean...i consider being gay almost like a personality trait...so can we predict the personality of our kids? |
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| Vlad |
| quote: | Originally posted by dj_mdma
there are two types of diabetes, and one form (NIDDM) has very little, if any, genetics linked with it as it is caused by environmental aspects, i.e they did not have a genetic predisposition to it as you suggest.
Those with a genetic predisposition to it are more likely to be "born" with it (IDDM) |
Im sure there is some mutation in the genes to stop the creation of insulin - the body doesnt stop cold turkey just like that, there has to be a change in the coding region which codes for insulin production, aka point mutation, to suppress it. But again, this mutation is caused by enviornmental affects. Which is what Im saying.
Homosexuality is not consistent - it happens or it doesnt, some say its enviornmental, some say youre born with it. Fact of the matter is that I believe there is some sort of point mutation in some coding region of the genes which makes men or women more attracted to their own gender. Why do I think there is a genetic link... because homosexual people tend to have a structurally different hypothalamus region and again, that just doesnt happen cold turkey - there has to be something within the body to cause it to happen - the hypothalamus, for those that dont know, controls your sexual interests. |
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| Vlad |
| quote: | Originally posted by Floorfiller
if being gay is something predisposed...then are other personal traits aswell? i guess i mean...i consider being gay almost like a personality trait...so can we predict the personality of our kids? |
I think most traits are learned from the environment, because most of them dont involve really any physical changes in your body. As you grow older, things are written into your brain - which has a never ending storage space, although you dont remember it, its still there. Your brain has so many control regions which control everything and certain types of information are written to the places that they are to control - i.e. emotions. Its all part of brain development, no ones brain at 18 is the same size it was when they were 1 month old - the brain is a muscle and it grows. |
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| Steven Hays |
| quote: | Originally posted by Floorfiller
so can we predict the personality of our kids? |
Yes! To an extent... |
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