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Germany Bans Scientology (pg. 19)
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| Clovis |
| quote: | Originally posted by Spike
sure point 02 % sound like much but not when u consider the population is over 300 000 000 |
77,000 out of 300 million is still not thriving. :stongue:
Whatever, I'm done, you don't see it the same way I do. You're focusng too much on why you dont like certain sects/cults and not enough on what personal freedom is and how valuable an absence of religious persecution is to a free society... |
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| MrJiveBoJingles |
About the size of a small city.
If only we could get them all to move to one place... :clown: |
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| Clovis |
| quote: | Originally posted by MrJiveBoJingles
About sixty thousand, the size of a small city.
If only we could get them all to move to one place... :clown: |
Most of em are right here in Hollywood. I used to skate in the gardens of their big complex on Franklin blvd...really nice place! :p |
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| Spike |
| see what i dont understand is when people look at it in terms of statistics like these they tend to rationalize things and say 'ohhh its just a few people....oh just a few people killed by drunk drivers, oh just a few school shootings,' etc.... but when it happens to lets say a friend of yours or someone you know....well, things change |
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| Spike |
| quote: | Originally posted by Clovis
77,000 out of 300 million is still not thriving. :stongue:
Whatever, I'm done, you don't see it the same way I do. You're focusng too much on why you dont like certain sects/cults and not enough on what personal freedom is and how valuable an absence of religious persecution is to a free society... |
i would agree with you any other time, but the thread title is: Germany BANS Scientology. to you it seems to be a discussion on personal freedoms sooo yeah im done too |
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| zoogla |
| quote: | Originally posted by pkcRAISTLIN
true, but im sure you will agree that religion has power and influence particular to itself when put alongside the other isms. it has a special place in society all its own. |
Ah get over it already :p
| quote: | Originally posted by Halcyon+On+On
I was being slightly sarcastic.
But no doubt, it would be labled as unpatriotic, drastic, and vicious. To propose 'action' over speech is to condone inevitable violence. |
Action over speech doesn't inevitably lead to violence! E.g. demonstrations, letters to politicians, petitions, etc. I think the person criticizing you was referring to speech as simply posting on TA, and "action" refers to non violent activities you engage in outside of TA to stand up for what you believe in. |
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| MrJiveBoJingles |
| quote: | | etc.... but when it happens to lets say a friend of yours or someone you know....well, things change |
They don't, actually. I know a person whose childhood was screwed up because her parents were in a cult. My views still haven't changed.
Funny how a person can still want freedom even if it means that somebody, somewhere might get hurt, even one of his own friends. Guess you can't grasp the concept. |
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| Clovis |
| quote: | Originally posted by MrJiveBoJingles
They don't, actually. I know a person whose childhood was screwed up because her parents were in a cult. My views still haven't changed.
Funny how a person can still want freedom even if it means that somebody, somewhere might get hurt, even one of his own friends. Guess you can't grasp the concept. |
I know kids who are jacked cause they went to Christian boarding schools lol. I mean, they aren't totally messed up, but they def have a bizarre way of looking at things, and tend to be totally irrational and illogical...I don't blame the church, I blame the parents. |
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| Halcyon+On+On |
| quote: | Originally posted by Moral Hazard
Ironic how you find an idict meant to foster and enrich the family to be one intent on destroying the family. |
How does not using birth control foster and enrich the family?
How does abstaining from pre-marital sex foster and enrich the family?
So everyone can get a self-righteous sense of awesome Xtian fostered enrichment when they do exactly as they are told instead of how they feel?
Some families are much better off without a parent. Simple truth of the world that people homogenized by the atomic family structure cannot come to terms with.
And if Scientology 'destroys families' (source? anyone? reliable source? hm?), I'm going to have to invoke Moral Hazard's defense of Catholicism and say the religion can hardly be blamed for the faults of its members. Scientology isn't out to ruin people's lives. Even if it is. |
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| Clovis |
| quote: | Originally posted by Halcyon+On+On
Scientology isn't out to ruin people's lives. Even if it is. |
:stongue: :stongue: |
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| Halcyon+On+On |
| quote: | Originally posted by fayraree
Action over speech doesn't inevitably lead to violence! E.g. demonstrations, letters to politicians, petitions, etc. I think the person criticizing you was referring to speech as simply posting on TA, and "action" refers to non violent activities you engage in outside of TA to stand up for what you believe in. |
Everything inevitably leads to violence. Way of the world.
But I didn't mean that the only option is to immediately get off TA and go firebomb . :p
However, seeing as how most with the luxury of optioning for atheism consider themselves intellectuals, I think most would realize that picketing for your non-beliefs is quite an exercise in futility. I dunno though, that's a big assumption on my part and would love to be proven wrong. But I am pretty pessimistic, so I am quite comfy with my assumption.
Letters to politicians are really cool when you're in the 3rd grade.
Atheism and separation of church and state are really quite dicey things though. You simply CANNOT persuade people to drop their beliefs and take on what is often viewed to be a very bleak stance - they have to come to it on their own terms. Atheism, itself, is just not something you stand up and believe in as it is an absence of a belief - a dismissal. It would take very, very gradual processes to extricate such elements from society, if even a thing were possible - or necessary, for that matter. Those who do partake of any particular religion - an overwhelming majority of American citizens and non-citizens, for that matter - fully believe that God is a real thing and should be recognized and respected by human governments. There is no way to destroy this belief. Ever. One would have to strike at the believers to achieve any effect. And a restless minority seeking to further its unpopular agenda by bringing about violence to a citizen majority is terrorism.
I don't even know why I am bothering at this point, I'm not even an atheist. :p |
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| Moral Hazard |
| quote: | Originally posted by Clovis
The vatican seems to think condoms promote pre/extra-marital sex and promiscuity, but it's clear that in Africa this is the case regardless of whether or not birth control is available, so IMO it's stupid to push against something thet could help a lot in the face of that kind of epidemic... |
The Vatican's position against birth control is that all sexual intercourse should be unhindered in it's potential to result in pro-creation. The Vatican holds that any artificial birth control is an afront to god. They do not take a position against it because they believe it promots promiscuity. With regard to abstinance before marriage and monogomy within it; I believe that these are high standards and are very much opposed to human instinct, the Vatican would agree. The reason the Roman Catholic church sets such a high standard on sex is because they view it as a spiritual act... a sacrament. As with all the sacraments of the church, sex is to be considered sacred and shared only by persons joined in the eyes of God. Personally, I think this is absolute poppy-cock; however, you have to give the Vatican points for maintaining positions that are true to their beliefs. If the vatican were to say "listen, we accept that you're gonna people other then your spouse so we're going to make an acception to the rule and say condoms are okay" then they'd be taking a position contrary to their own doctrine. The problem in Africa is two fold... people ing like rabbits and people not wearing condoms. Since the people not wearing condoms are still ing every person who will say yes (or has $5US) it's clear that religious conviction is not really an issue... if they were devout Catholics they wouldn't need to wear condoms because they wouldn't be in' everything that moves. It's not the church that's the problem here, it's people choosing what parts of the the doctrine to adhear to while ignoring others. |
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