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Germany Bans Scientology (pg. 20)
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| Clovis |
| quote: | Originally posted by Moral Hazard
The Vatican's position against birth control is that all sexual intercourse should be unhindered in it's potential to result in pro-creation. The Vatican holds that any artificial birth control is an afront to god. They do not take a position against it because they believe it promots promiscuity. With regard to abstinance before marriage and monogomy within it; I believe that these are high standards and are very much opposed to human instinct, the Vatican would agree. The reason the Roman Catholic church sets such a high standard on sex is because they view it as a spiritual act... a sacrament. As with all the sacraments of the church, sex is to be considered sacred and shared only by persons joined in the eyes of God. Personally, I think this is absolute poppy-cock; however, you have to give the Vatican points for maintaining positions that are true to their beliefs. If the vatican were to say "listen, we accept that you're gonna people other then your spouse so we're going to make an acception to the rule and say condoms are okay" then they'd be taking a position contrary to their own doctrine. The problem in Africa is two fold... people ing like rabbits and people not wearing condoms. Since the people not wearing condoms are still ing every person who will say yes (or has $5US) it's clear that religious conviction is not really an issue... if they were devout Catholics they wouldn't need to wear condoms because they wouldn't be in' everything that moves. It's not the church that's the problem here, it's people choosing what parts of the the doctrine to adhear to while ignoring others. |
You're absolutely right on them sticking to their position. I guess I would be laughing at it either way since I disagree with pretty much anything they do for those reasons :haha:
As for the last bit, thats true of almost every religious person I know, you included. :p |
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| Silky Johnson |
| quote: | Originally posted by Halcyon+On+On
However, seeing as how most with the luxury of optioning for atheism consider themselves intellectuals, I think most would realize that picketing for your non-beliefs is quite an exercise in futility. |
Oh pfft, so now you agree with me? Fag. |
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| RJT |
| quote: | Originally posted by Clovis
As for the last bit, thats true of almost every religious person I know, you included. :p |
And I'm certain there's no time in your life where you've ever failed to live up to standards you set for yourself, huh?
Must be nice, up there in your glass house and all. |
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| Moral Hazard |
| quote: | Originally posted by Halcyon+On+On
How does not using birth control foster and enrich the family?
How does abstaining from pre-marital sex foster and enrich the family?
So everyone can get a self-righteous sense of awesome Xtian fostered enrichment when they do exactly as they are told instead of how they feel?
Some families are much better off without a parent. Simple truth of the world that people homogenized by the atomic family structure cannot come to terms with.
And if Scientology 'destroys families' (source? anyone? reliable source? hm?), I'm going to have to invoke Moral Hazard's defense of Catholicism and say the religion can hardly be blamed for the faults of its members. Scientology isn't out to ruin people's lives. Even if it is. |
I haven't the time to further explain the Vatican's positions on sex and birth control (nor do I have the inclination as I don't actually agree with them), my point is that these positions are in no way designed to destroy families as Clovis suggested. With regard to Scientology, I never stated any position regarding Scientology. |
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| Moral Hazard |
| quote: | Originally posted by Clovis
As for the last bit, thats true of almost every religious person I know, you included. :p |
It's true, I'm imperfect. |
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| Halcyon+On+On |
| quote: | Originally posted by Moral Hazard
The Vatican's position against birth control is that all sexual intercourse should be unhindered in it's potential to result in pro-creation. The Vatican holds that any artificial birth control is an afront to god. They do not take a position against it because they believe it promots promiscuity. With regard to abstinance before marriage and monogomy within it; I believe that these are high standards and are very much opposed to human instinct, the Vatican would agree. The reason the Roman Catholic church sets such a high standard on sex is because they view it as a spiritual act... a sacrament. As with all the sacraments of the church, sex is to be considered sacred and shared only by persons joined in the eyes of God. Personally, I think this is absolute poppy-cock; however, you have to give the Vatican points for maintaining positions that are true to their beliefs. If the vatican were to say "listen, we accept that you're gonna people other then your spouse so we're going to make an acception to the rule and say condoms are okay" then they'd be taking a position contrary to their own doctrine. The problem in Africa is two fold... people ing like rabbits and people not wearing condoms. Since the people not wearing condoms are still ing every person who will say yes (or has $5US) it's clear that religious conviction is not really an issue... if they were devout Catholics they wouldn't need to wear condoms because they wouldn't be in' everything that moves. It's not the church that's the problem here, it's people choosing what parts of the the doctrine to adhear to while ignoring others. |
Makes sense, I suppose. And I suppose sodomizing luscious young boys also adheres to the Vatican's reasoning - I mean, you leave neither a genetic nor a viral trail and families get to stay together. Awesome.
However, I am a bit confused at this point - if the Vatican, itself (the word of man) is allowed to issue edicts such as this... wouldn't that just be another example of the fault of man and not the religion? Does the bible in fact have a say regarding contraception? I know they had full access to sheepskin and it's not like sexual diseases are a new thing, so there's hardly any excuse for it not to have at least something to say about this 'affront to the will of God'. Is the Pope really allowed to just ad lib like that? I mean, being the self-appointed representative of God on Earth, rather than the supposed word of God printed millions of times, must have its perks, but it still seems to me to be just another one of those faults of man rather than the belief system. Unless you can accept your beliefs from the mouth of another man. And then you're really no better off than Scientologists at that point. |
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| Clovis |
| quote: | Originally posted by RJT
And I'm certain there's no time in your life where you've ever failed to live up to standards you set for yourself, huh?
Must be nice, up there in your glass house and all. |
Never claimed otherwise...lol |
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| Halcyon+On+On |
| quote: | Originally posted by Moral Hazard
I haven't the time to further explain the Vatican's positions on sex and birth control (nor do I have the inclination as I don't actually agree with them), my point is that these positions are in no way designed to destroy families as Clovis suggested. |
Fair enough.
| quote: | | With regard to Scientology, I never stated any position regarding Scientology. |
Oh, yeah, I wasn't assuming your position, I was using your logic to illustrate that stances on religion cannot be exclusive to only viewing your own, to be fair. :p |
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| Clovis |
| quote: | Originally posted by Moral Hazard
It's true, I'm imperfect. |
Personally I think you're closer to perfect than someone who blindly follows all the rules. |
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| Halcyon+On+On |
| quote: | Originally posted by jennypie
Oh pfft, so now you agree with me? Fag. |
Did you think I was an atheist this whole time? :o |
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| RJT |
| quote: | Originally posted by Clovis
Never claimed otherwise...lol |
Well then preach on, I'm sure we could all learn a lot from you. :gsmile: |
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| zoogla |
| quote: | Originally posted by Halcyon+On+On
Makes sense, I suppose. And I suppose sodomizing luscious young boys also adheres to the Vatican's reasoning - I mean, you leave neither a genetic nor a viral trail and families get to stay together. Awesome. |
Jokes aside, I hate it when people start pointing to these pathetic incidents as a cop-out when a clearly good point is being made. :rolleyes: |
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