yea thats an italian supercar being introduced with Evanescence
ugly as . looks like a cheap "ricer"
Colin Andrews
quote:
Originally posted by R!CH
do you see any other type of suspension besides leaf springs? i see mounts for a transverse leaf spring assembly and its corresponding monotube shock absorber. this is the setup the corvettes have been using since 84, when they ditched coilovers.
here's a better pic for you...
I stand corrected. That image proves me wrong. Regardless, their application of the technology yields increbile performance results. I still stand by my statement that people hating on the Corvette are just being badge whores and aren't true auto enthusiasts.
Thanks for the info and picture.
leph555
quote:
Originally posted by boris_the_bear
ugly as . looks like a cheap "ricer"
exactly, it is a ing abomination
R!CH
quote:
Originally posted by Colin Andrews
I stand corrected. That image proves me wrong. Regardless, their application of the technology yields increbile performance results. I still stand by my statement that people hating on the Corvette are just being badge whores and aren't true auto enthusiasts.
Thanks for the info and picture.
ya it's an easy trap to fall into, hating on american cars and lumping the corvette in with the geo storm. badge whores are a funny bunch. they pick a team and bicker it out like it's a sport. there's the car they love and the cars they hate, no middle ground. they don't tinker, they don't test drive, they don't research. they compartmentalize facts and opinions and yell until they drown out the whole picture. i equate them with political party line-toers. the type who vote for the party rather than the candidate or the issue because it's easier to understand that way. i've said before i'm not particularly a fan of american cars, mainly because i'm a buyer of practical cars now, but the corvette is a machine of distinction that every true car enthusiast has to appreciate. the only people that can't are those who've never been behind the wheel of one. right domesticated? ;)
Nerologic
:eyes: :eyes: :eyes:
R!CH
damn, nice. i remember this one from years ago...
R!CH
holy ... this thing's a stock-bodied street-legal vette running 7 second quarter miles with a 208 mph trap speed :eyes: :eyes: :eyes:
Domesticated
quote:
Originally posted by Colin Andrews
I will agree that the corvette isn't in the least a refined car, but it's not supposed to be. Its a performance bargain for those who love raw power, and lots of people love the feeling of a raw power sports car.
That is a ridiculous statement. Experiencing 'raw power' doesn't mean you need to sacrifice refinement or quality of interior. That's just an excuse for the consistently poor interiors of most American cars.
quote:
Originally posted by R!CH
how is the corvette not mechanically refined when it has literally perfected all the technologies it employs.
It's pretty easy to perfect technology that is old. Did you hear that New York are going to dump their electric trains for steam trains? It's an old technology, but the steam trains are going to be the most efficient of their kind ever. Perfection!
quote:
Originally posted by R!CH
15/24 epa is a pretty impressive fuel economy for a 7 liter 427 big block that turns out 505 hp and 470 tq. find me another sports car that does the same or better. 75 mph avg on the slalom, 1.1 lateral gs on the skid, enough said about the chassis. people have been doubting the technological limits of the corvette for decades and yet it manages to make performance gains in every iteration without impacting the sticker price significantly.
I didn't say anything about it further up the thread, but your statement that American cars can afford to be gas guzzlers because fuel is cheap and your roads are wide is nonsense. I'm very surprised that someone who is so passionate about global warming could make such a statement. It shows your desperation to defend a car which clearly contradicts something you believe in. Just because you can use more resources doesn't mean you should. It is this attitude of Western wastefulness which is depleting the world at such a rapid rate. For no change in price or performance, gas guzzlers like the Corvette could easily reduce their impact on the environment. Such an example would be the implementation of VCM (link). However, most American auto manufacturers wouldn't currently bother to implement such a technology as standard. As you said, they operate on the basis of 'we don't really need to', rather than 'we don't really need to but we know we should'.
quote:
Originally posted by R!CH
the vette is a simple, raw and honest driving machine. it has never pretended to be anything else. it's pure lasting performance for the performance-minded customer. maybe the leather in the lamborghini feels better against your gucci slacks, but a real driver of performance cars doesn't give a about that. you can own a monster corvette and a fully loaded mercedes sedan for less the 'ultra-plush supercars'. the corvette has more aftermarket than any other production car so its stock refinements are not really an issue. the bottom line is if you like the performance of cars like the porsche gt2 and ferrari 599, but aren't a millionaire and value every dollar you make, then the corvette is the de facto sports car for your money. that applies to the 99% of us that like and talk about fast cars.
none of the gt1 cars are anything like their production counterparts. by regulation they are all spec'd within very tight tolerances of each other, thus their suspension dynamics are all close and drastically different from production. you're basically pitting chassis and engine block against chassis and engine block. not even the engine is mounted at the same spot. none of this means the coilover they use is better. it could cost 1000% more, offer 10% stiffness gain and ruin the ride quality on city streets.
When did this thread discussion become about the merits of a Corvette versus super cars? I merely stated that American cars are awful. In retrospect, this was silly. I'm sure there are boutique manufacturers making decent products that I'm unaware of. However, no mainstream cars from the big groups are worth owning when compared to those available from elsewhere.
On the cost of a Corvette (Z06) versus power; there are cars with similar performance for the same price. Admittedly, Europe doesn't do this well. However, if you step back to passenger cars rather than performance vehicles, European models are price competitive and deliver a far better product. However, for sheer sports usage, Asian cars are better than a Corvette. A Nissan GT-R is only about $5,000 more and is a far superior car. The Subaru WRX STi Spec C. is $40,000 (almost half the price of a Corvette), but rates almost as well on a track. The Mitshubishi Lancer Evo X GSR performs similarly to the Corvette with a similar price tag. Hell, if you want to be completely stupid and eschew quality, interior and looks as the Corvette does, buy an Ariel Atom for $70,000, or a Caterham CSR for $46,000. All the cars I've named employ superior technology and design.
I've pandered to you by going so far into the discussion on price. Although the overall attractiveness of a car no doubt includes its cost, that is just one element and is fairly insignificant when discussing whether the car is 'good' or not in terms of how it actually drives and operates after it's been purchased.
R!CH
where to begin.... jesus...
Colin Andrews
quote:
Originally posted by Domesticated
That is a ridiculous statement. Experiencing 'raw power' doesn't mean you need to sacrifice refinement or quality of interior. That's just an excuse for the consistently poor interiors of most American cars.
Believe it or not, a lot of people just want performance and don’t want to pay for interior refinement. Refined interiors cost a lot of MONEY. So if i want the same power, and refinement, what are my choices? A Ferrari? A Lamborghini? Those cars cost over double what even the most expensive Corvettes cost. I love that you brought up the Evo and STI. Both of those cars are BOXES with good engines. I've driven both and the interior refinement is simply awful, the Evo in particular. You act as if every single car has to be excellent at everything. It must have a good interior, it must have good performance, it must be comfortable, it must employ ground breaking technology. Get real, different cars appeal to different people at different price points and in different configurations.
quote:
Originally posted by Domesticated
I didn't say anything about it further up the thread, but your statement that American cars can afford to be gas guzzlers because fuel is cheap and your roads are wide is nonsense. I'm very surprised that someone who is so passionate about global warming could make such a statement. It shows your desperation to defend a car which clearly contradicts something you believe in. Just because you can use more resources doesn't mean you should. It is this attitude of Western wastefulness which is depleting the world at such a rapid rate. For no change in price or performance, gas guzzlers like the Corvette could easily reduce their impact on the environment. Such an example would be the implementation of VCM (link). However, most American auto manufacturers wouldn't currently bother to implement such a technology as standard. As you said, they operate on the basis of 'we don't really need to', rather than 'we don't really need to but we know we should'.
Buying a performance car and caring about mileage is simply hilarious to me. I made a point of illustrating that engine size does not correlate directly to how fuel efficient a car is. That was my only point. Anyone who's buying a car they intend to drive fast, or on a race track, or get performance out of, should not be worried about mileage. My old Golf GTI got great mileage, over 32mpg on the highway, but when I tracked it, it got 5mpg. Again, performance cars all get ty mileage if they are used like intended. End of story.
quote:
Originally posted by Domesticated
On the cost of a Corvette (Z06) versus power; there are cars with similar performance for the same price. Admittedly, Europe doesn't do this well. However, if you step back to passenger cars rather than performance vehicles, European models are price competitive and deliver a far better product. However, for sheer sports usage, Asian cars are better than a Corvette. A Nissan GT-R is only about $5,000 more and is a far superior car. The Subaru WRX STi Spec C. is $40,000 (almost half the price of a Corvette), but rates almost as well on a track. The Mitshubishi Lancer Evo X GSR performs similarly to the Corvette with a similar price tag. Hell, if you want to be completely stupid and eschew quality, interior and looks as the Corvette does, buy an Ariel Atom for $70,000, or a Caterham CSR for $46,000. All the cars I've named employ superior technology and design.
The GTR costs almost as much as the Corvette, but its service costs are outrageous. Service intervals cost thousands of dollars. Tracking the car (and all I've heard about people tracking them is the car going into limp mode, or the transmission overheating after a few laps) requires a mandatory service otherwise your warranty gets voided. It also has poor support from its producing company, IE illustrating an ability the car has and then proclaiming to its owners "yeah but if you use this feature, we won’t warranty the car. They even went so far as to remov the launch control entirely from the next production year. Also, if anything goes wrong its catastrophically expensive to fix. There was a thread on a UK GTR owner’s forum about a tiny rear end impact that cost the owner 10,000 pounds to fix. ONE FIFTH of the cars value, there goes your price advantage on the GTR. The Evo and STI are great cars to drive, but as I explained earlier, they are GARBAGE to sit in.
There are even European automotive journalists who like American cars. Take Jeremy Clarkson, a man who takes almost any opportunity to berate the Americans for their cars. He LOVES the Ford Mondeo. He has even gone so far as to say "Every time I drive one of these things, I always get out wondering why we buy anything else". Jeremy Clarkson’s opinion obviously isn't gospel, but if a man that typically lampoons everything American can even admit that sometimes they get it right, maybe you can realise you're being ridiculous. Newsflash, the Japanese don't always make the best car, neither do the Americans, neither do the Euros. That's because NO ONE IS RIGHT ALL THE TIME. EVER.
Fine we get it, your anti American Fanboisism knows no bounds. We’re not going to convince you that the Americans make some good cars, and you're not going to convince us that only the Japanese and Europeans make good cars. This thread is about cars you love, so take your ridiculous hate elsewhere. It's boring.
Colin Andrews
I probably shouldn't have even responded to that post.
Let's stop the hate and get this back on track.
I just picked up this to be my new project/daily driver
I've always loved these things. They're great to sit in and drive and the VR6 power plant does very well when boosted. My plan over the next year or so is to build a custom GT35R turbo kit for it. I'm shooting for 450AWHP.
