The proof is quite the same, based on voting records. %95 sided with Bush.
You really thing someone like Mccain is going to jump up and change his mind after he's elected? Probably not. That is why there are public records.
revitalizedbeat
have u guys heard about the North American Union?
Clovis
quote:
Originally posted by djjoshuaallen
Barack resides quite far left on the politcal spectrum, much more so then say the clintons. Claiming his ideas are anything but socialist would be a bit misleading i think. Why else would you think most of western europe supports him.
Because none of his policies are remotely socialist.
Originally posted by |Thrax|
The proof is quite the same, based on voting records. %95 sided with Bush.
You really thing someone like Mccain is going to jump up and change his mind after he's elected? Probably not. That is why there are public records.
Mccain is quite moderate by todays republican standards, why do you think he had to pick such a jesus loving conservative as his running mate? It was neccessary to get the extreme conservative votes.
And candidates always drift off to the left or right approaching elections to appeal to the party, but often move toward the middle once elected.
Had he picked Mitt Romney i may have voted for him on Romney's sheer economic success. They guy has made over 290 million dollars from scratch via international business, i think he would have done wonders for our economy.
The main reason i contemplated to vote McCain is his ability to work with BOTH sides (this is what clinton was good at) He has been involved in the U.S. senate for more than 20 years (first took office in 1984). Throughout his terms he has voted on, and proposed many bills that most claim to be "Democratic" (The McCain-Feingold Bill is a great example).
Obama has no track record of accomplishments as he has only been in the senate for 3 years and has not even voted the past 1.5 because of the campaign. So I am supposed to judge him on 1.5 years in the senate? Maybe i should just become convince because he can deliver a speech well?
djjoshuaallen
quote:
Originally posted by Clovis
Because none of his policies are remotely socialist.
i dont claim to be a political philosopher, but universal health care, higher taxes, higher spending, and more government regulation over corporate america and everything else, all smell like socialist ideas to me.
Clovis
quote:
Originally posted by djjoshuaallen
i dont claim to be a political philosopher, but universal health care, higher taxes, higher spending, and more government regulation over corporate america and everything else, all smell like socialist ideas to me.
Well then, you don't know what socialism is, at all. You never studied it in school?
Also, what you listed is not Obama's platform at all. If anything all that has been accomplished on Bush' watch minus universal health care. Obama's plan isn't quite universal health care, we still would have to buy it, but he will provide affordable plans to those in need.
clovis, do you really think Obama isnt going to raise taxes through the roof the second he gets into office? I heard him say himself the other day he would expand government regulations using the freddie mae/mac debacle as reasoning, that will be just the beginning.
Hilary's health care plan was much more realistic and affordable then obama's, we just cant afford what he wants to do.
If there was one thing bush did do worth mentioning its cut our taxes and allow us to spend more of our own money. And after the tax cuts (which have proven time and time again to work) he still brought in 20% more tax revenues then clinton did in the 90's.
but of course congress allowed bush to spend spend spend spend and spend so what does it matter anyway.
djjoshuaallen
quote:
Originally posted by Clovis
Obama's plan isn't quite universal health care, we still would have to buy it, but he will provide affordable plans to those in need.
and he has retracted a bit since the primaries i think. He used the terms universal many time in the primaries in an attempt to seperate himself from hilary, but since she is no longer in the picture, he can now back off such a strong position.
Clovis
Ok, but we were talking about what socialism is.
As for the rest, I think based on information I've collected.
Obama is going to raise taxes on the people who can afford to pay more taxes. You and I won't see an increase, unless I'm mistaken and you're in the top 1.5% of income earners.
72hrpartyanimal
quote:
Originally posted by djjoshuaallen
i dont claim to be a political philosopher, but universal health care, higher taxes, higher spending, and more government regulation over corporate america and everything else, all smell like socialist ideas to me.
i like more government regulation over corporate america. :D
