You seem to have a poor understanding of how the religious right complex works.
Pushing a conservative agenda is the same as pushing a leftist agenda.
Pushing a religious agenda is entirely different.
revitalizedbeat
honestly, we cant afford having more retrograded mistakes. obama/biden, may not have all the solutions, but at least its a steppingstone heading to progress.
R!CH
quote:
Originally posted by CND
Because you are a zealot and a crusader for your own views, morality and causes. No different from whom you hold in such contempt.
Nothing wrong with that as you are more than entitled to your views, just as they are. As a matter of fact I admire the passion . . . but leftist zealots are no different than right wing zealots.
I don't know you, never met you, but that’s the perception I get when reading your posts . . . that’s all.
Sweet dreams.
i see what you're saying, but your comparison is wrong. my views are fundamentally opposed to both the far left and far right. both push their views upon the entire population through federal law. the left has its welfare state agenda, the right has its police state agenda. the religious agenda had the rhetorical capacity to align with either agenda, but they chose the police state.
the most basic tenet of my ideology is that government has no business deciding the civil liberties of the people, period. if someone wants to commit suicide, do drugs or terminate their pregnancy, it is their unalienable right to do so and nobody's right to prevent them from doing it. we don't need a government to tell us what we can and can't do to ourselves, we never have. that whole notion is socially toxic - unwanted pregnancies and victimless crimes breed social decay. that is precisely why the founding fathers emphasized the separation of church and state. the government exists only to provide basic services that we can't on our own and that we shouldn't entrust to free enterprise. services such as energy production, water treatment, utility and transportation infrastructure, business regulation, environmental protection, consumer safety, law enforcement, defense, etc.
furthermore i believe the federal government is largely unnecessary and ineffective in the vast majority of the roles it has taken upon itself today. many of these roles are in fact unconstitutional. social issues such as gun control, abortion, gay marriage, drug policy, education and the enforcement of law should be managed by the state and local level government. the atf, dea, doe, fema, ssa, and the hundreds of federal acts that support them need to be repealed so that their relative importance can be decided by voters of each state based on each state's specific needs. if you look at how incredibly diverse the needs of americans are from state to state, you cannot possibly expect a single federal law to serve the people of california just as well as those of idaho. that is precisely why state rights are protected under the 10th ammendment. that is precisely why (some) supreme court justices recognize its importance to the great social experiment that is america.
these worthless federal institutions consume the majority of people's income taxes, and yet the state and local governments are the ones shouldering the majority of the ACTUAL services provided to the people. so where do all your federal tax dollars end up? well if it isn't wasted in some gigantic bureaucracy, it's sent down a vast redistribution of wealth from the prosperous states to the poor states. every dollar in federal tax california pays, it receives 78 cents in return. in turn every dollar in federal tax mississippi pays, it gets 2.02 in return. washington dc gets 5.55 for every dollar it puts in. alaska gets 1.84...hmm? sarah palin says she denied funding for bridge-to-nowhere pork spending, but do you know the truth of her record? do you know how many times california has paid for the rebuilding of a hurricane-torn city or a congressional pay raise? this is government gone awry and if you really care to know, what i stand for is less of it.
i realize that obama isn't the perfect candidate as it relates to this ideology, but i do recognize that he's the best choice for a positive change in america's international, economic, social and environmental future. john mccain has already turned his back on his past convictions. sarah palin has shown where her myopic priorities lie and she neither has the tools nor the knowhow to affect positive change in this country. obama possesses, if nothing else, the ever important ability to think critically based on his experience with legal reasoning. he's able to see the forest from the trees in policymaking. he is in my view the most grounded person and most capable of building consensus in national and international politics. the fact that he writes his own speeches and is able to convey such profound messages while still connecting with average americans demonstrates a high degree of intelligence. he's like that one science teacher you had in high school that not only understood the material, but also how to teach it to kids in a way that reaches them.
DaveT
This thread has given me a headache.
nchs09
quote:
Originally posted by |Thrax|
:eyes: :eyes:
haha that video is so INTENSE
nchs09
quote:
Originally posted by T.A.S.D.
Wow. R!ch seems to have a hard-on for Sarah Palin! Let's take a closer look at her counterpart: Sen Joe Biden. He's an uber-leftarded-30+ year Washingtonian who's only famous for his RAVE act. With his sneaky legislation, he wanted to eliminate EDM altogether. That's right you Libtards, he wanted you in prison for paraphernalia (i.e. pacifiers and waterbottles) with or without MDMA on your person or in your system. Biden wanted to imprison promoters, even if they did the best they could in security and drug-free measures.
:wtf:
kabelicious
It is scary to think that we could become a Republican nation again after this election. If anything, Hilary had better be out there telling her previous supporters to vote for Obama and NOT Palin simply because she's a woman. I think those folks commenting they would vote for McCain just because Hilary didn't get the nomination are the stupidest folks I've seen speak out in this election. So you're telling me because it has a vag yet no POLITICAL or SOCIAL SIMILIARITY with the person you originally voted for, you'll vote for them to spite what? Yourself in the long run? ARGH!
Regardless of the outcome, this will be a historic presidency in the fact that there will be a WOMAN as VP or a black man as President. The severity of the nation at least led to some stereotypes being broken down.
Regarding the commentary on what is taught in our schools and the "sheep" thinking of this country, the conservative backlash in this country hopefully peaks - and the timeframe for it will be determind by this election. If Obama wins, it will hopefully peak and then decline. If McCain is elected......look forward to another decade or so of it.
Our country was fraught with excess socially in the 80's and 90's - now the other side of the equation is going, "holy ! The weirdos are out!".
Look in particular at anything related to sex or drugs - two social taboos of society that blossomed in those two decades. The United States is still one of most puritanical Western countries in our views on sex and drugs. With the advent of homosexuality and fetish "awareness" raised in our country (s&m, internet porn, furries, etc), our sexually strict religious brethren are running scared! Oh no - it's okay to have those dirty thoughts or to love whoever you choose! Crap! It must not be! Abortion is another part of this - mostly religiously motivated due to what consists of a soul and how early it forms. As for drugs, - no comment needed there. From prescription to street, they're out there. In my mind, pot is better for you than cigarettes and should be legalized. Heck, the taxes from pot alone would get this country's deficit knocked down a good notch or two.
More important motivation is to look at how these have affected our nation's children. It's now acceptable to swear at younger and younger ages. Everytime you go out, you can see 10-12 year olds wearing clothing that two decades ago, there parents wouldn't let them be caught outside in. *I* even constantly want to go cover them up! Kids are getting high in middle school or taking prescription drugs like crazy. More and more kids have sex at early ages.
Watching your children manifest themselves like this is enough to make most parents want to go back to "simpler, better times". One argument I've always been fascinated with is the statement that those "simpler, better times" might just have been a figment of most folk's imagination due to the restraints on media. Back in the days of FDR, there was commentary that if the nation could see that he was in a wheelchair, he might not have been elected. Communication abilities in this century have become so advanced that we can even videotape a fireball going off in rural country within minutes! Before that, it could take days or more to broadcast - and it might not have been considered newsworthy then to begin with.
Parents who have these motivations to vote McCain or believe in the "better, simpler times" need to take care of their kids better - they are *parents* after all and responsible for their own children. And folks in general need to respect the right of people in this country to live their own life without harm to others. If I want to tie up my boyfriend and blindfold him, it's my choice and my life or if I want to marry my girlfriend and adopt children with her, it's my life and my choice.
Those are my semi-unstructured thoughts on all of this. I am not the most political person but I am socially motivated in most of my life. And the state of our country is hard-pressed when it comes to social morals and I firmly believe this backlash is what is going to make or break this election.
That and the price of gas. But that's a whole other ballgame.
For myself as a woman, Palin. She has definitely worked her way into the "good ol' boys" network with her hunting and other such "masculine" denoted activities but that does not a politician make. And shopping at Walmart is hardly something to brag about - nor is knowingly giving birth to a child that has birth defects and will perhaps never be able to fend for itself. In my mind, she represents the worst in women in this country - not because she hunts or shops at Walmart but because she actively supports legislation blocking the fundamental right of any woman to make a choice about their own body. I will never understand anyone who is pro-life but I will respect them when it comes to their own individual choice on the matter. After all, it is supposed to be a choice.
That's the end of my rant - now my head hurts too.
DJ RANN
As a foreigner, living in the US, it has been so interesting to see the presidential election campaign over the past year.
I write this purely from an observational point of view, not as a democrat or republican - I am neither - I do not have the right to vote and even though I understand the American political system,being from the UK, I have a completely partisan view on American politics and the candidates.
Unfortunately through this process called the political system it seems it has become a popularity contest, waged on a war of PR and who can shout the loudest regardless of content or policy.
Sadly, it is the republican candidates who have pioneered this form of "politics" and are now engaged in the lowest common denominator style of character assassination - yes, even with the current tide of bad press against palin.
Just looking at the facts, not rhetoric or rumors, The McCain Palin campaign is scarily reminiscent of the actions taken by Bush to secure both of his presidencies, not to mention the same policies, infrastructure, PR spin and even personnel involved with this campaign.
You, as Americans, Have NO IDEA, how much of the rest of the world wants Barack Obama as the next president - there is not a single country in Europe where McCain's popularity is even within 15% of Obama. The middle and far east is even worse for McCain, whcih some of you republicans may laugh at but when you consider upwards 10% of America is owned by interests in the middle east alone, you should really worry how the choice will affect the American Economy.
For the rest of the world, McCain is the loosing choice for the next president.
Which brings me on to the realization, which simply beggars belief, that another presidential campaign is mainly being fought on the principles of religion, national security, hunting, and who you would most like to have a beer with (remember that from the Bush Campaign(s)? - it's being repackaged under your eyes people).
The worst two problems America faces now is the Economy and Health care. Go out, look around. People are losing jobs and getting ill, and it's only going to get worse. Don;t choose your candidate because you worship the same deity (that came from a book based on chinese whispers written 300 years after the fact and selectively edited over the next 1700 years to serve the current editor's devices.
Don't misunderstand this. There is nothing wrong with having religion or faith, at all.
IT HAS NO PLACE IN POLITICS OR GOVERNMENT.PERIOD.
The founding fathers of this country did their best to separate the church (which was even much stronger and stricter then) from state. There is irrefutable proof of this, including a document called the constitution, upon which most US law is based. AMERICA IS A SECULAR SATE. No one religion has a stake on America, so stop voting or making elections about religion, or matters that concern religious beliefs.
Now about that economy problem. I'm sure McCain is actually a decent guy, but that doesn't make a good president for the task in hand, just as much as just being a female does not qualify you as the vice president. Just ask yourselves do you need more republican economic mismanagement, because they same guys who are in place unitl bush gives the keys back are going to remain if McCain gets in:
These (individually) are some of the worst figures America has seen in the better part of a century, let alone together (source: the Economist, wiki).
Seriously, if you want America to not get left behind as both China, the Middle East and Russia, increase their global Economic and political power, you need a real change from:
To what Barack Obama has been proposing from the start. A tax on those who earn above $250,000 a year and a tax break on those who earn less than that. When times are hard the state needs to look after people, not the state looking after companies.the republican view of looking after companies so they can get rich and in turn make their workers rich is a clear history proven fallacy. Companies have got richer, Amercians have become poorer.
Back to the subject, Palin.
Never before has there been so much controversy about a nomination for VP, and it's not because she's a women as the republicans would have you believe.
It's because (and I am only going to list factual points):
There has never been a VP nomination where the presidential candidate has only met them once before.
There has never been VP candidate with less experience (and not this little by a longshot)
There has never been a VP candidate that only 20 months before was the mayor of a town with less than 6000 inhabitants (my old High school in a quiet part of England has only slightly less pupils).
There has never been a VP candidate with such a well documented record of fiscal mismanagement (Clear: in 6 years managed to take a balanced sheet and turn it in to a $22,000,000 debt.
There has never been a VP candidate who claimed to have put a state owned jet on ebay (as a cheap publicity stunt) only to sell it to a business aquaintance for $600,000 less than it's market value.
There has never been a VP candidate with so many court documented accusations of abuse of power (from the trooper Wooten inquiry to firing of state employees for not agreeing with her).
There has never been a VP candidate that has avoided questions from the press for this long.
There has never been a VP candidate that tried to sue standing government to allow the hunting of the Polar Bear, an endangered species.
There has never been a VP candidate that believes that Global Warming is caused by human behavior: "In an interview for the September issue of the conservative magazine Newsmax, Gov. Sarah Palin, R-Alaska, said she does not believe climate change is caused by human behavior. "I'm not one though who would attribute it to being man-made,” Palin said in the interview, which was posted online Friday."
I could go on, just stating her own interviews and the facts.
The only fact that matters is that this person should not be the next vice predisent, or president should the oldest candidate in history die (he is already at above the national mortality age).
Regardless of the amount of rumors going around about her, it is clear: She has abused her power in the past. She has a terrible record in fiscal management. She uses unsuccessful publicity stunts as highlights of her resume. The uses religion as a vote pull point. She believes all the conclusive data from the last 30 years on global warming is made up. She likes to kill endangered species for fun. She won't face the press. Her speeches are written by Bush's speechwriter. She only met her running mate once before and has never worked with him on any political matter. She thinks if your AIDS infected brother rapes you, you should keep the child, and not even have the option of aborting.
Again, Barack-Biden are not the shining light either, but their policies have a well thought out strategy to get the economy back on target, a viable health system in place for all and foreign policy that will make America less of a target and more of a ally on the global stage, both politically and economically.
Oh yeah, and as for gas prices, Shut the up already, Seriously.
Europe and a lot of the rest of the world has had these gas prices, that you are just beginning to moan about for the last decade.
You know what? Gas prices should be double what they are now in the US, and extra tax money the money should go to healthcare and the environment. Europeans drive 1 to 2 litre engine cars (and they are faster and nicer than SUV/pickup guzzlers). Please, someone expalain why, unless you are a farmer, in a tractor, you need a 4, 5 or 6 litre engined vehicle to sit there in 3mph traffic for an hour.
Oh and don't let your head hurt with these discussions - it's what deciding your countries future is all about - otherwise it just breeds apathy and another Bush adminstation.
Go McBush and Failin'! ;)
bigperf
ok people start doing something in your community...actually, start doing something that can affect Ohio, Colorado, New Mexico, Pennsylvania,Michigan.
Obama WILL win the popular vote....
kabelicious
I was registered in Michigan but switched to Colorado - decided they would need more help than Michigan which has gone Democratic in the past.....
Gas prices, I agree - but the average American was raised with cars and are loathe to give them up. And our public transportation BLOWS over here compared to Europe. In Detroit, you're *lucky* if you can find a bus that goes within a mile of where you work that is on time more than twice a week. If you don't have a car in Detroit, you're effed for work for the most part. The Big Three made sure of that back in the 60's & 50's (Taken For a Ride - excellent book on this).
You want to talk about a beleagured state? Check out Michigan - it's dying as we speak. I would like to hear how Obama proposes to change the auto industry and save my birthplace seeing as the Michigan governor seems to be in the dark as well. It's a great example of how America is failing - economy, healthcare, mortage foreclosures - it's got all of it at the worst rates or percentages.
DJ RANN
quote:
Originally posted by kabelicious
I was registered in Michigan but switched to Colorado - decided they would need more help than Michigan which has gone Democratic in the past.....
Good for you. I hope more people think this way and sway the vote.
quote:
Originally posted by kabelicious
Gas prices, I agree - but the average American was raised with cars and are loathe to give them up.
No excuse - There is nothing you can't do in a 2 litre that you can do in 6 litre (except use up way more fuel for the same journey). Behavior is changing because of gas prices, and it needs keep to changing.
quote:
Originally posted by kabelicious
And our public transportation BLOWS over here compared to Europe. In Detroit, you're *lucky* if you can find a bus that goes within a mile of where you work that is on time more than twice a week. If you don't have a car in Detroit, you're effed for work for the most part. The Big Three made sure of that back in the 60's & 50's (Taken For a Ride - excellent book on this).
True, but that's why you need a government that looks out for social interests and the well being of people, not corporations, and that is not a republican government.
quote:
Originally posted by kabelicious
You want to talk about a beleagured state? Check out Michigan - it's dying as we speak. I would like to hear how Obama proposes to change the auto industry and save my birthplace seeing as the Michigan governor seems to be in the dark as well. It's a great example of how America is failing - economy, healthcare, mortage foreclosures - it's got all of it at the worst rates or percentages.
It's a sad thing that has happened to Michigan, and it's dire situation was even brought to major attention in several film over the last 8 years or so (think Bowling for columbine, 8 ball etc.)
....howver, it's the car giant that really ed this one up. The CEO for General Motors, Rick Wagoner, constantly pushed out vehicles with larger and larger engines, while the rest of the world was screaming out for fuel effiency. Which is why all those pesky japanese cars are the number one choice now. Ford did the same and now the amercian car industry is paying the price, unfortunately with Michigan taking the brunt. This all happened under a pro petrol administration.
rann you are preaching to the choir brother. 99% of the people on this forum are intelligent free-thinkers and understand what is at stake here. we have no intention of supporting the disastrous republican ticket. it is also reassuring to know that those who do support mccain in california will cast a meaningless vote as this state will hand democratic delegates to the federal election commission in november. the concern lies in low-education low-income bible belt states, where people treat national elections like an episode of american idol. you know the roman emperors were the first to realize the danger of the "will of the people" and their ability to remove mismanaging authority. it was because of this realization that they built the enormous roman coliseums to keep the masses entertained, distracted, indolent and under control. today america is the best entertained and least informed nation in the world and it is by no coincidence. most people are too busy being productive, being consumptive and being distracted from their banal existence to concern themselves with complex and often abstact issues that affect them deeply. many political scientists refer to the constant struggle between democracy and capitalism and how neither can be achieved in full effect along with the other. sadly we live in an american age where the dollar is worshiped and capitalism is guarded as democracy was, once upon a time.
