Originally posted by djjoshuaallen
lets face it, we are all going to have to pay for this mess. If you think that we (us making 30-60k) are not going to be effected by Obama's tax increases you are sadly mistaken.
The GOP tax cuts have proven time and time again to work. Bush cut taxes in huge amounts when compared to the Clinton administration, yet brought in %20 more revenues then clinton did
of course congress allowed him to blow it all on the war, but thats besides the point, and should be blamed on both parties anyways.
I know what you're trying to say - I too think Clinton was no white Knight.
But seriously you are being misled about the tax plans. All bull in this thread aside (dem vs rep, etc.), McCain really is lying about him saving the average american taxes. Please just watch with an open mind.
The bottom one's from Fox, and even they think McCain's tax info and attacks on Obama are pure lies. Watch him squirm and dodge.
Like this.... copy the Embed code and paste in your post.
lowski
oh that's easy, thanks !!
Bondor
ing lefties… "let communism reign!”
R!CH
quote:
Originally posted by Bondor
ing lefties… "let communism reign!”
good point!
R!CH
an article written by joe klein about john mccain's lying strategy.
joe klein is liberal, but he's also a respected journalist and nothing he writes is misleading or false.
you be the judge and read for yourself...
John McCain and the Lying Game
Politics has always been lousy with blather and chicanery. But there are rules and traditions too. In the early weeks of the general-election campaign, a consensus has grown in the political community — a consensus that ranges from practitioners like Karl Rove to commentators like, well, me — that John McCain has allowed his campaign to slip the normal bounds of political propriety. The situation has gotten so intense that we in the media have slipped our normal rules as well. Usually when a candidate tells something less than the truth, we mince words. We use euphemisms like mendacity and inaccuracy ... or, as the Associated Press put it, "McCain's claims skirt facts." But increasing numbers of otherwise sober observers, even such august institutions as the New York Times editorial board, are calling John McCain a liar. You might well ask, What has McCain done to deserve this? What unwritten rules did he break? Are his transgressions of degree or of kind?
Almost every politician stretches the truth. We journalists try to point out the exaggerations and criticize them, then let the voters decide. When McCain says, for example, that Barack Obama favors a government-run health-care system, he's not telling the truth — Obama wants a market-based system subsidized by the government — but McCain's untruth illuminates a general policy direction, which is sketchy but sort of within the bounds. (Obama's plan would increase government regulation of the drug and insurance industries.) Obama has done this sort of thing too. In July, he accused McCain of supporting the foreign buyout of an American company that could lead to the loss of about 8,000 jobs in Wilmington, Ohio. McCain did support the deal, but the job loss comes many years later and was not anticipated at the time. That, however, is where the moral equivalency between these two campaigns ends.
McCain's lies have ranged from the annoying to the sleazy, and the problem is in both degree and kind. His campaign has been a ceaseless assault on his opponent's character and policies, featuring a consistent—and witting—disdain for the truth. Even after 38 million Americans heard Obama say in his speech at the Democratic National Convention that he was open to offshore oil-drilling and building new nuclear-power plants, McCain flatly said in his acceptance speech that Obama opposed both. Normal political practice would be for McCain to say, "Obama says he's 'open to' offshore drilling, but he's always opposed it. How can we believe him?" This persistence in repeating demonstrably false charges is something new in presidential politics.
Worse than the lies have been the smears. McCain ran a television ad claiming that Obama favored "comprehensive" sex education for kindergartners. (Obama favored a bill that would have warned kindergartners about sexual predators and improper touching.) The accusation that Obama was referring to Sarah Palin when he said McCain's effort to remarket his economic policies was putting "lipstick on a pig" was another clearly misleading attack — an obnoxious attempt to divert attention from Palin's lack of fitness for the job and the recklessness with which McCain chose her. McCain's assault on the "élite media" for spreading rumors about Palin's personal life — actually, the culprits were a few bloggers and the tabloid press — was more of the same. And that gets us close to the real problem here. The McCain camp has decided that its candidate can't win honorably, on the issues, so it has resorted to transparent and phony diversions.
This new strategy emerged during the first week of Obama's overseas trip in late July. McCain had been intending to contrast his alleged foreign policy expertise and toughness with Obama's inexperience and alleged weakness. McCain wanted to "win" the Iraq war and face down the Iranians. But those issues became moot when the Iraqis said they favored Obama's withdrawal plan and the Bush Administration started talking to the Iranians. At that point, McCain committed his original sin — out of pique, I believe — questioning Obama's patriotism, saying the Democrat would rather lose a war than lose an election. Ever since, McCain's campaign has been a series of snide and demeaning ads accompanied by the daily gush of untruths that have now been widely documented and exposed. The strategy is an obvious attempt to camouflage the current unpopularity of his Republican brand, the insubstantiality of his vice-presidential choice, and his agreement on most issues — especially economic matters — with an exceedingly unpopular President.
The good news is that the vile times may be ending. The coming debates will decide this race, and it isn't easy to tell lies when your opponent is standing right next to you. The Wall Street collapse demands a more sober campaign as well. But these dreadful weeks should not be forgotten. John McCain has raised serious questions about whether he has the character to lead the nation. He has defaced his beloved military code of honor. He has run a dirty campaign.
djjoshuaallen
They are both telling alot of lies right now in their campaign adds, its getting dirty.
Im not saying Mccains tax plan is right, im just saying that Obama's plan isnt. He has not proposed anything different then democrats have been proposing the past 40 years. Raise taxes and government spending. Its our government spending that is ruining the economy. Im still looking for all this change he keeps proposing...
starboy
quote:
Originally posted by djjoshuaallen
They are both telling alot of lies right now in their campaign adds, its getting dirty.
Im not saying Mccains tax plan is right, im just saying that Obama's plan isnt. He has not proposed anything different then democrats have been proposing the past 40 years. Raise taxes and government spending. Its our government spending that is ruining the economy. Im still looking for all this change he keeps proposing...
Wrong,
Obama is lowering taxes for 95% of americans. If you make less than 250k a year, you will get a bigger tax break than you are right now.
Mcsame is giving tax breaks to the rich and companies exporting jobs over seas.
DJ RANN
quote:
Originally posted by djjoshuaallen
They are both telling alot of lies right now in their campaign adds, its getting dirty.
Im not saying Mccains tax plan is right, im just saying that Obama's plan isnt. He has not proposed anything different then democrats have been proposing the past 40 years. Raise taxes and government spending. Its our government spending that is ruining the economy. Im still looking for all this change he keeps proposing...
You're right and wrong - All BS aside, neither has the golden solution. The difference, and where you are incorrect (kind of) is that it's not government spending that has ruined the economy.
firstly, It was mainly caused by a bill (I hate to say it, pushed though by a republican) that allowed the complete deregulation of the American Stock market. This allowed banks to get away with things that should never have happened (Sub-prime mortgages, short sell market manipulation, etc).
Now when you say government spending, I think you're talking about federal resources for federal government (etc.) in the classical democratic method, which is not the problem.....
War spending is one major problem. You can't spend $10 billion a month, especially the way the trade deficit has been building over the last few years, and not expect to run out of money pretty soon. Now think about all the money it will take to get 100,000+ soldiers and all that equipment back to the US or stationed bases. Now think about the veteran costs (which are going to be huge). It's waaaay bigger than "just" 10 billion a month, and the big bills will continue to roll in (and be paid for by us) for many a year.
The other major problem is that all these companies which are being bailed out (nationalized) now, are going to be paid for using tax payers money.
My question is this: if this war is so incredibly expensive for the taxpayer, your savings are going to hell and you earn under $250,000 a year, why on earth would you vote for McCain?
Seriously, figure out how much you earn a year then look at both candidates - there are cacluation website out there now which will show you how much you will save with each candidate. Hands down, Obama is going to save far more you money, PERIOD. He is going to create huge amounts of money from taxing the very rich, and out it into getting this country back in to shape.
And don't be misguided in to thinking "well, my boss needs to make a lot of money so he can pass it on to us". Look at what is happening; they are getting bailed out with your tax money, and they aren;t passing it along. Look at history - companies and their owners get rich, very few people working for them do.
DJ RANN
Try this site: Not affiliated with Obama in any way!
