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Sex, Death And The Meaning Of Life (pg. 2)
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| Kylle |
| quote: | Originally posted by Lira
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So it would be fine if democracy decides everyone should go to church on Sunday? |
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| pkcRAISTLIN |
| quote: | Originally posted by Lira
Quoting the kid above me, that's absolutely false. It is pointless - and, if this becomes the justification for these debates, it's also hopelessly misguided, reason why contemporary anti-theism does more harm than good. |
More harm than good, lol! yeah, angry forum or youtube posts make the world go round!
| quote: | Originally posted by Lira
It should be obvious that, in a democracy (the kind of government we both live in), not only should divergence of opinion be tolerated, it should actually be expected - otherwise one person calling all the shots would be more than enough. If Christianitards seek to impose their views on everyone else, instead of promoting good old Christian values of tolerance, we should confront their anti-democratic claims (which should be easier to tackle) and not the core of their beliefs... lest we start to do the same and start spouting intolerance towards diverging views ourselves. |
“good old Christian values of tolerance”. Good one!!
The point you’re so painfully missing is that their “anti-democratic claims” are the same ing thing as their core beliefs- the former is merely the legislative manifestation of the latter. THEY will be the ones that bring the debate back to their core beliefs, because that’s the very basis for their opinions. Not anything else.
Being intolerant of irrelevant viewpoints steeped in superstition is a-ok in my book. Such beliefs have no role in the rule of law.
| quote: | Originally posted by Lira
In short, repealing belief in unicorns is uncalled for. |
Nobody ever suggested that lira. Indeed I specifically referred to legislation did I not?
Stop pissing me off. |
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| Lira |
| quote: | Originally posted by Kylle
So it would be fine if democracy decides everyone should go to church on Sunday? |
I answered this not just once, but twice, in my earlier post. I refuse to believe you can't understand it. |
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| Lira |
By the way, before we continue, no, I don't know why there are Chinese ideograms in your post. I didn't put them there :p
| quote: | Originally posted by pkcRAISTLIN
More harm than good, lol! yeah, angry forum or youtube posts make the world go round! |
Actually, they do have an impact we shouldn't underestimate, as they're not just confined to the internet, as the numerous books, authors, talks, and adverts on buses show.
And, before this turns into a "but they're worse!" kind of debate in which we argue that religious folks have a worse reputation than armchair atheists, let's not forget that recent fundamentalism does owe a fair share of its nuttiness to the ongoing dialogue in the public sphere between theism and (science driven) atheism - here's a concise interview with three different experts on fundamentalism addressing this issue in a short period of time (in case you can't be arsed to read whole books about it, this is actually quite short).
| quote: | Originally posted by pkcRAISTLIN
“good old Christian values of tolerance. Good one!! |
Christianity is, at heart, a tolerant other-cheek turning unto-others doing soul-above-community saving religion - I was raised one and, although Christians in general are terrible at following what their own religion says (which I believe is mostly human, communists weren't good with communism either), that's what their theology says.
Now, if you want to talk about Christian followers, I'd agree with you that tolerance is not always their forte.
| quote: | Originally posted by pkcRAISTLIN
The point you’re so painfully missing is that their “anti-democratic claims are the same ing thing as their core beliefs- the former is merely the legislative manifestation of the latter. THEY will be the ones that bring the debate back to their core beliefs, because that’s the very basis for their opinions. Not anything else. |
No, it isn't. The core beliefs of Christianity are, for instance, the 10 commandments - none of which clash with democracy as they're mainly tailored for individuals, not whole communities (I mean, a person can commit adultery, but a community? Even if that's ganbangly plausible, it's unlikely to be the intended meaning). There's absolutely nothing in the core of Christianity that addresses homosexuality, for example, reason why fundamentalists actually need to go through an extensive quote mining process to find something that supports their prejudice... and ignore much else.
| quote: | Originally posted by pkcRAISTLIN
Being intolerant of irrelevant viewpoints steeped in superstition is a-ok in my book. Such beliefs have no role in the rule of law. |
Yes, such beliefs have no role in the rule of law, but no, being intolerant of these irrelevant viewpoints will only make these people more vocal, more radical, and worst of all, even more unhinged.
| quote: | Originally posted by pkcRAISTLIN
Nobody ever suggested that lira. Indeed I specifically referred to legislation did I not? |
Reason why that sentence went together with the following one ;)
| quote: | Originally posted by pkcRAISTLIN
Stop pissing me off. |
No, I will make a hippy out of you! Hal's become a hippy, I've become a hippy, and I'm sure even Arbiter will become a hippy the moment she finds the android of her dreams, so it's just a matter of time until you join the hippernity, and you gotta be prepared :D
Jokes aside, I know you're a smart bloke, and I wouldn't want to miss the opportunity of debating you in case I'm wrong. |
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| pkcRAISTLIN |
I just knew you’d respond with a massive wall of text :(
| quote: | Originally posted by Lira
Christianity is, at heart, a tolerant other-cheek turning unto-others doing soul-above-community saving religion - I was raised one and, although Christians in general are terrible at following what their own religion says (which I believe is mostly human, communists weren't good with communism either), that's what their theology says. |
Bollocks. A religion can only be judged by the acts/behaviours of its adherents. Just the way communism is judged by the societies it helped create. You are what you eat. And Christianity ate a whole bunch of horrible cunts.
| quote: | Originally posted by Lira
No, it isn't. The core beliefs of Christianity are, for instance, the 10 commandments - none of which clash with democracy as they're mainly tailored for individuals, not whole communities (I mean, a person can commit adultery, but a community? Even if that's ganbangly plausible, it's unlikely to be the intended meaning). There's absolutely nothing in the core of Christianity that addresses homosexuality, for example, reason why fundamentalists actually need to go through an extensive quote mining process to find something that supports their prejudice... and ignore much else. |
Im not necessarily talking about the “core” beliefs of Christianity, but of Christians. Said beliefs can include all manner of personal prejudiced nonsense. That indeed form a “core” part of their theism.
| quote: | Originally posted by Lira
Yes, such beliefs have no role in the rule of law, but no, being intolerant of these irrelevant viewpoints will only make these people more vocal, more radical, and worst of all, even more unhinged. |
em. They’ve been allowed to terrorise the world since day zero. Stupid ideas/people should be challenged. Why should their mental instability be seen as a possible weapon to be afraid of, rather than something to be corrected, or at the very least, mocked?
| quote: | Originally posted by Lira
Jokes aside, I know you're a smart bloke, and I wouldn't want to miss the opportunity of debating you in case I'm wrong. |
You ARE wrong. Christianity should be like a child- seen but not heard. Actually, not even seen. Should be a private activity engaged in appropriate places, like my masturbation. Once it enters the public sphere it should be shut the down. |
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| Kylle |
| quote: | Originally posted by Lira
I answered this not just once, but twice, in my earlier post. I refuse to believe you can't understand it. |
Many believers suffer the same disease |
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| InnerReflection |
| quote: | Originally posted by Lira
Quoting the kid above me, that's absolutely false. It is pointless - and, if this becomes the justification for these debates, it's also hopelessly misguided, reason why contemporary anti-theism does more harm than good.
It should be obvious that, in a democracy (the kind of government we both live in), not only should divergence of opinion be tolerated, it should actually be expected - otherwise one person calling all the shots would be more than enough. If Christianitards seek to impose their views on everyone else, instead of promoting good old Christian values of tolerance, we should confront their anti-democratic claims (which should be easier to tackle) and not the core of their beliefs... lest we start to do the same and start spouting intolerance towards diverging views ourselves.
In short, repealing belief in unicorns is uncalled for. Fighting the tyranny of those who want us all to conform to the rules of the Supreme Single-Horned Master, on the other hand, is essential for democracy. |
No one's saying that there shouldn't be debate tolerated. However it can be said that since their views are pushed politically based on religious grounds then perhaps religion should be debated in the same way political ideologies are. Similarly, you could argue that changing the religion of people is important for political reasons. Most of all though, I think it's about opening up things for more debate. |
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| Looney4Clooney |
I would only go so far as to say most debates are pointless for the simple fact that the religious are kinda dumb. Like arguing with a monkey. Those debates never really change anyone's mind. You would have to be younger than 6 to not sort of unravel the idiocy of religion and say , um ya, pretty sure this is all bull.
but considering how religion likes to with others, i see no issue ing with religion. |
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| Mattsanity. |
| Jesus Christ WILL come down to earth for a second time - I'm dead serious. |
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| srussell0018 |
| quote: | Originally posted by Mattsanity.
I'm dead. |
:gsmile: |
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