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Sex, Death And The Meaning Of Life (pg. 3)
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| Mattsanity. |
| God bless you mate. If I ever have the chance, I hope I can dine out with you. |
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| Looney4Clooney |
| quote: | Originally posted by Mattsanity.
Jesus Christ WILL come down to earth for a second time - I'm dead serious. |
go to any big city. There are probably right now 200 people claiming they are jesus. He probably already came back and realized his little wine trick sucks compared to an ipad. |
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| Lira |
| quote: | Originally posted by Kylle
Many believers suffer the same disease |
So are you ignoring what I said to prove a point? Find me an example of religious folks being unable to understand what is being said, and I can comment on that, otherwise we'll be focusing on strawmen.
| quote: | Originally posted by InnerReflection
No one's saying that there shouldn't be debate tolerated. However it can be said that since their views are pushed politically based on religious grounds then perhaps religion should be debated in the same way political ideologies are. Similarly, you could argue that changing the religion of people is important for political reasons. Most of all though, I think it's about opening up things for more debate. |
All right, you're making quite a few points here, and they all need to be addressed separately.- Religion should be debated in the same way political ideologies are: I wholeheartedly agree, and I would even say thateverything should be debated, not just political ideologies and religion;
- Changing people's religion is important for political reasons: And this is where we disagree. Debating beliefs, in order to correct flawed ideas and incorrect assumptions is essential - seeking to change the belief of others implies you know what is right and that you're somehow entitled to lead the way. None of this is justified, as you can't know for certain you're absolutely right and they're absolutely wrong, so suppressing rival ideas will just make sure potentially good ideas will die out and potentially bad ideas will no longer be able to show us what the mistakes we should avoid are.
| quote: | Originally posted by pkcRAISTLIN
I just knew you’d respond with a massive wall of text :( |
:D
| quote: | Originally posted by pkcRAISTLIN
Bollocks. A religion can only be judged by the acts/behaviours of its adherents. Just the way communism is judged by the societies it helped create. You are what you eat. And Christianity ate a whole bunch of horrible cunts. |
This is a very dangerous belief to hold. How much damage should the followers of a certain religion/practitioners of a particular craft do to warrant their extinction?
American doctors, for example, did experiments on unsuspecting patients from Guatemala, not to mention the unintentional screw ups and the somewhat unpopular atomic solution to WWII - would this be enough to seek to repel science from the public sphere? I should hope not!
Likewise, the Catholic church backed the Solidarność Movement in Poland, and did its fair share of good works since its inception. How much good should the Church to do justify its existence, despite the numerous atrocities it has supported?
See where this leads us to? That's why it's pointless when atheists and theists alike resort to body counts in other to justify their (ir)religion.
| quote: | Originally posted by pkcRAISTLIN
Im not necessarily talking about the “core beliefs of Christianity, but of Christians. Said beliefs can include all manner of personal prejudiced nonsense. That indeed form a “core part of their theism. |
Does it form the core part of their theism, or do they use it as an excuse to justify their bigotry? If it's the latter, you can disprove the existence of God, angels, saints, and what have you, and they'll still try to push legislation against whatever it is that they're biased against.
It's just like Global Warming denialists - they don't need a religion to justify their beliefs.
| quote: | Originally posted by pkcRAISTLIN
em. They’ve been allowed to terrorise the world since day zero. Stupid ideas/people should be challenged. Why should their mental instability be seen as a possible weapon to be afraid of, rather than something to be corrected, or at the very least, mocked? |
I'm not against challenging ideas. I was expelled from a Catholic school for doing just that, remember? Challenging an idea, however, is different from trying to (de)convert people and eliminate these ideas entirely despite the will of those who hold it... which seems to be what you're supporting here.
| quote: | Originally posted by pkcRAISTLIN
You ARE wrong. Christianity should be like a child- seen but not heard. Actually, not even seen. Should be a private activity engaged in appropriate places, like my masturbation. Once it enters the public sphere it should be shut the down. |
But I never said it should have any sway in the public sphere - quite on the contrary, I'm defending people's right to believe whatever the hell they want, as long as they don't interfere with the rights of those who disagree with them. That's why I didn't even bother answering Kylle.
Also, and this is the really amusing bit: The "useless" bickering I mentioned was about the meaning of life (the last third of the book challenges the idea that this is a question we can - or should - ask). But I'm glad we're having this discussion instead :p |
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| pkcRAISTLIN |
| quote: | Originally posted by Lira
This is a very dangerous belief to hold. How much damage should the followers of a certain religion/practitioners of a particular craft do to warrant their extinction? |
We’re not talking “genocide”. But throughout history certain social norms have become “extinct” just via “free” choice; inherited ideologies simply die out under when future generations inherit less and less. Nothing wrong with helping that process along.
| quote: | Originally posted by Lira
American doctors, for example, did experiments on unsuspecting patients from Guatemala, not to mention the unintentional screw ups and the somewhat unpopular atomic solution to WWII - would this be enough to seek to repel science from the public sphere? I should hope not! |
That’s an absurd argument unless you can equate the usefulness of actual religion in the public sphere. I can see you’ve tried to do so below.
| quote: | Originally posted by Lira
Likewise, the Catholic church backed the Solidarność Movement in Poland, and did its fair share of good works since its inception. How much good should the Church to do justify its existence, despite the numerous atrocities it has supported? |
I have no issues with churches acting as charitable organisations. Of course, I see a complete divorce between religion and the charitable acts performed. NGOs for instance provide lots of charity, but they are not religious. I see churches as being the same, they provide charity to those less fortunate, and they just happen to be a religious organisation.
| quote: | Originally posted by Lira
Does it form the core part of their theism, or do they use it as an excuse to justify their bigotry? |
Does it make a difference?
| quote: | Originally posted by Lira
I'm not against challenging ideas. I was expelled from a Catholic school for doing just that, remember? Challenging an idea, however, is different from trying to (de)convert people and eliminate these ideas entirely despite the will of those who hold it... which seems to be what you're supporting here. |
It’s their free choice to discard silly ideas (or not). just as it’s mine to help them to make that decision, or mock them for it.
| quote: | Originally posted by Lira
But I never said it should have any sway in the public sphere - quite on the contrary, I'm defending people's right to believe whatever the hell they want, as long as they don't interfere with the rights of those who disagree with them. That's why I didn't even bother answering Kylle. |
Yeah but you’re ignoring the demonstrable examples of theism doing exactly that, now, today. The separation of church and state in the US is probably the cruellest joke ever. And that’s not even touching on the theocracies around the world. |
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| itsamemario |
| quote: | Originally posted by Lira
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This book is far superior.
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| itsamemario |
| quote: | Originally posted by pkcRAISTLIN
You ARE wrong. Christianity should be like a child- seen but not heard. |
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| itsamemario |
Also yes @ pkc and no @ lira.
Religion is detrimental to the progress of humanity. Just like srrussels fat gut, there is no room for it anywhere. |
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| de+ |
Think about the parents who are waiting to tell their children about the realities of life, because they believe they are unable to grapple with it, and that the children will react completely hysterical at any criticism of their unfounded habits.
It's the same kind of kid gloves many are treating religious people. They don't dare to criticize believers and therefore choose a (often taken on) respectful attitude towards them.
And they delude the faithful (and probably themselves) into thinking that their pure fantasy worlds deserve respect, simply because it's wrapped into intricate stories, rituals and other clothes lent by the emperor. |
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| Kylle |
| quote: | Originally posted by Lira
So are you ignoring what I said to prove a point? Find me an example of religious folks being unable to understand what is being said, and I can comment on that, otherwise we'll be focusing on strawmen. |
The Pope! he may be said to be an enlightened man who understands science, yet it is as if he doesn't. Is he dyslexic?
It's kind of funny that the ultimate democracy will take away the possibility of certain forms of governance, and democracy also has to bow to a reality where compromises have to be made and some people thoughts can't be realized because others have the majority to something else. |
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| Vivid Boy |
The problem with atheism is that it bashes other religions but won't stop preaching harder and louder then any other religion out there. Atheists seem to care more about what You believe in and won't stop bombarding you with videos and flyers like they're the Jehovah Witness' of Science. `You would think if atheists believed in one life to live they would be a little more serious about what they want to accomplish and less compelled to give a what you think happens after death.
In my mind I got eternity after this life, i got time. You guys are on a timer I'd focus more on what I want to accomplish with your limited time. Don't worry about what we think, just go get your done before your time expires. |
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| Mattsanity. |
| quote: | Originally posted by Looney4Clooney
go to any big city. There are probably right now 200 people claiming they are jesus. He probably already came back and realized his little wine trick sucks compared to an ipad. |
Jesus answered: “Watch out that no one deceives you. For many will come in my name, claiming, ‘I am the Messiah,’ and will deceive many. - Matthew 24:4-5 |
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| Halcyon+On+On |
| quote: | Originally posted by Vivid Boy
The problem with atheism is that it bashes other religions but won't stop preaching harder and louder then any other religion out there. Atheists seem to care more about what You believe in and won't stop bombarding you with videos and flyers like they're the Jehovah Witness' of Science. `You would think if atheists believed in one life to live they would be a little more serious about what they want to accomplish and less compelled to give a what you think happens after death.
In my mind I got eternity after this life, i got time. You guys are on a timer I'd focus more on what I want to accomplish with your limited time. Don't worry about what we think, just go get your done before your time expires. |
Every single human being is an Atheist at birth, though. And every last human being is an agnostic, because nobody ing knows for sure. It's everyone else who divorces themselves from these two labels, in order to assert something they don't know, who strike worry in those who know enough to know that they just don't know. You know? |
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