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EDC 2013 June 21-23: Ticket sales begin Jan 9th at Noon PST (pg. 34)
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| DJ RANN |
| quote: | Originally posted by in2muzikk
5 year contract, and the mayor proclaims EDC Week in Vegas every year? Brings in a ton of money to the city and needs a huge space unless it goes to a 3 weekend event. I can't imagine it leaving, but I thought the same thing about San Bernardino... |
Contract is an option to do it not a guarantee.
The big hotel groups run Vegas and the problem with EDC for them is that demographic doesn't gamble high or hard and that's where the groups make their money - they make nothing on rooms when you calculate the running costs.
The majority of EDC'ers don't book the expensive rooms so only the cheaper/ghetto hotels are full, and the majority don't buy the expensive drinks at the bars nor eat at the expensive restaurants.
Sure it's busy and more people but it's not the big spenders and the big hotel groups don't make anywhere near the money that they do with normal high rollers (who stay away during EDC weekend - I know some guys from a major computer/tech company who go each year as their bonus and drop a couple of hundred thousand in a weekend between them, they've had to move to a different weekend to avoid the the EDC swarm).
It will be a change in the law that basically means EDC would not be viable next year. And the hotels are lobbying for it, and as I said at the start, the Hotels run vegas. |
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| wma8706 |
| quote: | Originally posted by scatterbrain
nice videos! looks awesome and considering checking it out next year.
At EDC in LA and other events like Monster Massive at Sports Arena, it seemed to me that 90% of the people were rolling balls. Curious, but at EDC Vegas, would you say it's still like that? |
The infamous E puddles are still there but I think the Vegas raceway is much larger than the sports arena so your not tripping over anybody! |
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| 72hrpartyanimal |
| quote: | Originally posted by DJ RANN
Contract is an option to do it not a guarantee.
The big hotel groups run Vegas and the problem with EDC for them is that demographic doesn't gamble high or hard and that's where the groups make their money - they make nothing on rooms when you calculate the running costs.
The majority of EDC'ers don't book the expensive rooms so only the cheaper/ghetto hotels are full, and the majority don't buy the expensive drinks at the bars nor eat at the expensive restaurants.
Sure it's busy and more people but it's not the big spenders and the big hotel groups don't make anywhere near the money that they do with normal high rollers (who stay away during EDC weekend - I know some guys from a major computer/tech company who go each year as their bonus and drop a couple of hundred thousand in a weekend between them, they've had to move to a different weekend to avoid the the EDC swarm).
It will be a change in the law that basically means EDC would not be viable next year. And the hotels are lobbying for it, and as I said at the start, the Hotels run vegas. |
i thought the mob ran Vegas :) |
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| Cool1g |
| quote: | Originally posted by DJ RANN
Contract is an option to do it not a guarantee.
The big hotel groups run Vegas and the problem with EDC for them is that demographic doesn't gamble high or hard and that's where the groups make their money - they make nothing on rooms when you calculate the running costs.
The majority of EDC'ers don't book the expensive rooms so only the cheaper/ghetto hotels are full, and the majority don't buy the expensive drinks at the bars nor eat at the expensive restaurants.
Sure it's busy and more people but it's not the big spenders and the big hotel groups don't make anywhere near the money that they do with normal high rollers (who stay away during EDC weekend - I know some guys from a major computer/tech company who go each year as their bonus and drop a couple of hundred thousand in a weekend between them, they've had to move to a different weekend to avoid the the EDC swarm).
It will be a change in the law that basically means EDC would not be viable next year. And the hotels are lobbying for it, and as I said at the start, the Hotels run vegas. |
I agree that EDC attendees tend not to spend as much $ as same some other group. Partly by their finances, partly by being at EDC physically itself so they aren't at the casinos.
However your argument has many holes.
EDC is the #1 hotel room revenue generating weekend now in Vegas for the entire year. Also summer is historically a slower season due to the heat. So they hotels are taking in millions more of $ in room rates that usual that weekend. The clubs themselves seem to be very full with tables all sold etc. Agreed that gambling income is down during EDC weekend as are sales to Circ shows but gambling last year made up just under 50% of total casino revenues so the hit isn't massive.
Also, the head of the Las Vegas Events Board of Directors who is also the President of the MGM Grand was the one who first mentioned 2 weekends of EDC back in April. He seemed excited about it. Which goes contrary to your opinion.
I assume the law change you are mentioning is the LET tax being applicable? Too soon to say how that will play out but as its a tax I believe it would be added onto the ticket price anyway... at $330 versus $300 this past year I don't see how that would make any difference. Also with the improved stage setups all i see is demand increasing. |
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| Dream Beamz |
| quote: | Originally posted by djjoshuaallen
Carl's set was much better on Sunday main stage I thought. He ended with like 20-25 minutes of sick breaks. |
Drum and bass, not breaks. They were some good pretty old tracks, if I still had a scene for DnB I would have remembered the names of the tracks |
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| Sadface |
| quote: | Originally posted by DJ RANN
Contract is an option to do it not a guarantee.
The big hotel groups run Vegas and the problem with EDC for them is that demographic doesn't gamble high or hard and that's where the groups make their money - they make nothing on rooms when you calculate the running costs.
The majority of EDC'ers don't book the expensive rooms so only the cheaper/ghetto hotels are full, and the majority don't buy the expensive drinks at the bars nor eat at the expensive restaurants.
Sure it's busy and more people but it's not the big spenders and the big hotel groups don't make anywhere near the money that they do with normal high rollers (who stay away during EDC weekend - I know some guys from a major computer/tech company who go each year as their bonus and drop a couple of hundred thousand in a weekend between them, they've had to move to a different weekend to avoid the the EDC swarm).
It will be a change in the law that basically means EDC would not be viable next year. And the hotels are lobbying for it, and as I said at the start, the Hotels run vegas. |
That's an interesting point. If EDC really is terrible for hotels then I could see you being right, but I bet it's not terrible, just slightly worse than normal. Hopefully the mayor/city government can take a longer term view and realize there's a lot of long term value in having such a massive younger crowd come to vegas and getting to see what it has to offer. Lots of EDC attendees are in Vegas for the 1st time and are going to always associate their fond memories of EDC with the city of Las Vegas. It might not pay off now or next year, but in 5 years when they've got nice jobs and are thinking about where to go for a bachelor(ette) party or weekend getaway, Vegas will have already sold itself to them on a more personal level than any TV commercial or movie or pop culture reference ever could. |
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| modthispny |
in case you wanted to see the massive scale of EDC.
rukes has some great pics. |
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| in2muzikk |
| quote: | Originally posted by Sadface
That's an interesting point. If EDC really is terrible for hotels then I could see you being right, but I bet it's not terrible, just slightly worse than normal. |
http://thesceneisdead.com/2013/05/1...public-hearing/
"According to Smith Travel Research and the Las Vegas Convention and Visitor’s Authority, the weekend of EDC has the highest weekend occupancy rates of the year. Occupancy is 98.3% county wide. Prior to EDC, that same weekend did not rank in the top ten for occupancy."
"Average Daily Spending Per Person:
$334 Non-Locals ($63.52 transportation, $25.42 retail, $34.16 entertainment, $55.84 gambling, $62.20 food, $92.88 accommodations)
$252.60 Locals ($55.90 transportation, $24.84 retail, $22.2o entertainment, $36.71 gambling, $66.70 food, $46.24 accommodations)"
If the above stats are true, then I really don't see how the hotels are losing out so much on EDC. 98.3% occupancy vs. a weekend that's not even in the top 10, in the middle of hot as hell summer. I just checked next week's room rates for the casino I stayed at, and they are about half the rates for EDC weekend (I had booked months in advance, so maybe more like a third of the EDC rates if booked later).
Add up the revenue from all those rooms that would have sat empty otherwise, the associated food, gambling, entertainment, etc. and it's hard to believe that could be offset by a small number of "high rollers."
This sounds more like a political windstorm to me, similar to what happened in San Bernardino or even Berlin, Germany. Groups of people get upset, raise a furor and take it to city councils, and then it's over until the next election cycle when everything is reevaluated. Probably an oversimplification, but would make more sense to me. |
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| DJ RANN |
| quote: | Originally posted by in2muzikk
http://thesceneisdead.com/2013/05/1...public-hearing/
"According to Smith Travel Research and the Las Vegas Convention and Visitor’s Authority, the weekend of EDC has the highest weekend occupancy rates of the year. Occupancy is 98.3% county wide. Prior to EDC, that same weekend did not rank in the top ten for occupancy."
"Average Daily Spending Per Person:
$334 Non-Locals ($63.52 transportation, $25.42 retail, $34.16 entertainment, $55.84 gambling, $62.20 food, $92.88 accommodations)
$252.60 Locals ($55.90 transportation, $24.84 retail, $22.2o entertainment, $36.71 gambling, $66.70 food, $46.24 accommodations)"
If the above stats are true, then I really don't see how the hotels are losing out so much on EDC. 98.3% occupancy vs. a weekend that's not even in the top 10, in the middle of hot as hell summer. I just checked next week's room rates for the casino I stayed at, and they are about half the rates for EDC weekend (I had booked months in advance, so maybe more like a third of the EDC rates if booked later).
Add up the revenue from all those rooms that would have sat empty otherwise, the associated food, gambling, entertainment, etc. and it's hard to believe that could be offset by a small number of "high rollers."
This sounds more like a political windstorm to me, similar to what happened in San Bernardino or even Berlin, Germany. Groups of people get upset, raise a furor and take it to city councils, and then it's over until the next election cycle when everything is reevaluated. Probably an oversimplification, but would make more sense to me. |
Certainly interesting but bear in mind that many of those aren't actually official figures and that study was paid for by EDC, as a lobbying argument for EDC to avoid the new law relating to taxes.
The more important point which only get's one like mention (and no figures given which is telling on a such a detailed financial report) is the gambling figures. In fact, the word "gambling" is only mentioned twice in a 3000 word financial document about Vegas. Seems they really wanted to avoid that subject, no?
The hotels really do not make much money on the rooms; the hotels are built and operated usually at a loss, even at full capacity to facilitate gambling.
Even when they charge $500 a night (which is what my room at the Encore was going to cost me for the Saturday night before I had to cancel) they make little to nothing on that.
A couple of my buddies are semi pro poker players. They don;t even win that big and their rooms are always comped, because the hotel don't give a about taking $500 off you for a room. They care about taking $5000 off you in one sitting at the card table.
EDC crowd although good for all the peripheral businesses like cafes, restuarants, food stores, merchandise, but they don't spend on gambling, and that's why the hotels are lobbying the out of getting the live performance tax exemption taken away.
I bet you that $55.84 spent on gambling is far higher in relation to overall daily spend with any other demographic.
The other thing that document doesn't mention is the same weekend, is the largest health, wellness, spa and salon show in the world , with 20,000 people a day attending that, not including all the staff and logistics for all the vendors, so probably close to another 80,000 in vegas for that weekend, unrelated and uncredited to EDC.
EDIT: I just checked at the average Gambling spend per person per visit is normally $559 for a three day trip. That would mean, by EDC's figures, an attendee would have to stay there for just over 10 days.
I could be wrong about this but from what i know of the hotel industry and my friends who are there many times a year to gamble, it all makes sense that the big Hotel groups don't want EDC, yet all the other businesses do. |
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| in2muzikk |
The Luxor hotel had watermelon carved into the letters "EDC" with glowsticks poking out at the buffet, so at least someone there seemed to like it. ;)
As for me, I actually stay longer in Vegas for EDC weekend, sometimes up to a week. A regular trip would be one or two nights by comparison. I don't gamble much either way, so I'm sure they're not really that enthused when I visit...lol. |
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| Cool1g |
Someone else noted this before but with a lot of these EDC attendees its probably their first time going to Las Vegas.
I suspect more than a few will really like it out there and be more inclined to return for a non-EDC trip and spend more typical #s (since they won't be spending $400 for the ticket and shuttle pass).
So even if they don't hit the average revenue per person on gambling it is in a way one big advertisement to get people to return to Vegas.
That's an interesting question that Rann poses.... does a non-EDC, non-holiday weekend make the casinos more profit once gambling is included versus EDC week.
My guess is no but that's just an educated guess based on the room occupancy % and rates last week. Wish I had the time or motivation to actually figure that out.... |
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| DJ RANN |
| quote: | Originally posted by Cool1g
Someone else noted this before but with a lot of these EDC attendees its probably their first time going to Las Vegas.
I suspect more than a few will really like it out there and be more inclined to return for a non-EDC trip and spend more typical #s (since they won't be spending $400 for the ticket and shuttle pass).
So even if they don't hit the average revenue per person on gambling it is in a way one big advertisement to get people to return to Vegas.
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I think sadface posed that and I certainly think that it's a valid point. Probably a lot of people who have never been to vegas went for EDC, especially as they sold nearly 350,000 tickets to 46 countries.
Also, when you look at the normal demographics for vegas visitors, the largest portion is California residents (mainly due to economic reasons) and close proxmimity, and even though Cali still ranks high, EDC weekend brings so many more people from other states.
| quote: | Originally posted by Cool1g
That's an interesting question that Rann poses.... does a non-EDC, non-holiday weekend make the casinos more profit once gambling is included versus EDC week.
My guess is no but that's just an educated guess based on the room occupancy % and rates last week. Wish I had the time or motivation to actually figure that out.... |
I would love to know too. Certain weeks/events though do have a massive advantage in terms of gambling potential:
Three of the busiest periods are Superbowl, March Madness and Special Sports events (like a big boxing or MMA match).
These events while being incredibly busy in terms of occupancy have the added advantage of the demographic being sportfans and therefore far more likely to gamble. It aligns with the event itself, where EDC does not naturally lend itself to a gambling Demo.
They make revenue off different methods with different groups though; when Ricky Hatton fought Pac Man there were tons of Brits in Vegas, and they set a record for the most amount of alcohol ever consumed in a single vegas weekend. It was actually the only time the MGM (including all it;s backup warehouses and suppliers) have ever run out of Booze. they had to send out extra trucks to other depositories outside of Vegas to get more. Apparently gambling revenue was insane that weekend and drunk Brits who are crap at gambling hit the tables.
All of the big holiday weekends rank highly according to the figures I could find and apparently when July 4th (or loss of the colonies, as I call it) falls on a Saturday or Monday, they set new records for occupancy and gambling revenue.
To be honest, I think the hotels are being dumb about the whole tax thing; The long term benefits are there for introducing a new generation to vegas (who will probably turn in to gamblers eventually) and they should remember 2009 when nearly all the large groups posted massive losses and Steve Wyn had to get a $1bn personal line of credit to weather it out. |
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