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Vinyls vs. CDs (pg. 29)
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| Nemesis44 |
| quote: | Originally posted by Gunyouken
I wonder.... One can just as well do it with 2 sessions of winamp going at once then. Why bother with all the equipment? It's not as if 90% of the crowd knows what beat matching is, and/or gives a whether it happens or not, they just want to be happy.
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Well I wasn't refering to your typical trance crowd.
Here in the UK, if you can't DJ, quite often you will have a crowd wanting to let you know about it rather quickly.
When I said you didn't have to beat match, I was refering more to parties and music in general as this topic isn't just refering to Trance.
If you are talking about Trance, then smooth mixing and good harmonic lifts are paramount.
In the UK, there is a considerable portion of the crowd that want to see a particular DJ because of his tune selection and skill.
That however is really a different thread and doesn't refer to vinyl vs CDs and both methods need skill and creativity.
Cheers
Nem |
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| mute9003 |
| cds vinyl fuk all dat i use tapes i dont see the point of discussion tapes replace vinyl, cds replace tapes, mp3 replace cds... theres no better or worse its personal preference lets start an thread aout japanese and american cars instead |
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| djlithium |
| quote: | Originally posted by Chrill
I have been a CD DJ for about 3 years but i bought a 1210 5 weeks ago to try it out because many talks about the "real feeling". But I don't get the feeling every vinyl DJ talks about. I still like the CD a lot more, it feels like I have more control with CD's.
I don't have any opinion about the time that is remain on the track, don't like the pitch (feels like it's not so precise like a cd player, I must pitch bend a lot more in the mix), don't like the sound (feels like the sound isn't mellow like a cd, sounds bad when mixing from cd to vinyl)
Well, maybe the feeling will come but i have almost lost all my good expectation for vinyl... |
Your problems with going to vinyl come from the fact that your probably are unaware as to what you are looking at and touching and have at your finger tips for control. This is normal for any DJ starting out on vinyl. Period. What is scary is that most people who play CDs and mix with software still have no clue as to "what its all about" and when they jump to vinyl or came from vinyl in the first place - generally they suck - because they have no clue as to what the record is TELLING THEM about the music. You never get this from a CD or a file. However if you have worked with music sequencing softare (like Cubase VST 32 or SX or Logic) you will probably be able to figure out the relation there from a composition stand point vs. "time remaining on disc" << a completely useless factor in determining what to do when you need to mix in a new record.
Sad.
BTW, I will be raising some serious e on this thread in the next few months KILLING DEAD digital mixing now and forever.
Yes, it can be done. |
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| Chrill |
| quote: | Originally posted by djlithium
- generally they suck - because they have no clue as to what the record is TELLING THEM about the music.
"time remaining on disc" << a completely useless factor in determining what to do when you need to mix in a new record.
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I acutally was surprised when i started with vinyl because it was much easier than i had expect. I thought that I would suck but I didn't..
Today I have get a little more feeling but not as good as CD's, The remain time that you can see when you play cd's felt strange in the beginnig when vinyl don't have it cause when i played I hadn't any opinion about the remaining time, yes i know that it dosen't matter but anyway i'm used to it from cd's.
Now I almost know how fast a record end's. |
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| djlithium |
Visually there is an indication on the record in the form of breaks in the bands. If you understand how that translates into the math behind the music in terms of bars, measures and time signature, time remaining is no longer a concern, it then becomes a simple matter of understanding that all music follows a conventional formula that will introduce and remove or reduce instruments as a track builds or breaks apart from begining to end. Therefore by using this knowledge you can physically look at the record being played and know where your cue points are for release of the record coming in next and where things need to be faded in based on beat, bar, phrase and measure count, not "time remaining" which is useless and incorrect. From there you can use what is visually represented on the record mixed in and determine what an appropriate plan of attack you should have in your head for mixing out - working with those instruments falling off and instruments coming in from record to record. The results are a more natural transition with out really have to "know" the tracks selected inside and out. Once you understand this stuff, you can essentially grab any two records out of say a mail order package you have had come to your door just before you leave to go play at a club and pull them out and mix them more or less with ease (providing they are in the pitch range that feels appropriate going from one to the other in terms of tempo - and no key shifting doesn't really fix this problem) simply by looking at them!
Amazing stuff.
Brutally obvious but many people including a lot of "pro djs" are clueless to this fact. Also many people who teach others how to play are clueless about this technique and why you should use it from a musical stand point (the process essentially being billed over the years as phrase mixing) right from the get go. It helps to ensure a proper understanding of first beat (not release off kick) cueing and that translates into faster and better beat matching skill development - leaving DJs to pay further attention to appropriate EQing technique, crowd interaction, fader control etc. All around a good thing.
After a while as you have discovered from what you have described above, you "just come to know how much time is left" - this is correct, you will essentially gain the skill to just time left but not in minutes and seconds really but "band distance/width to matching band distance/width" (usually ending up being an equal amount of bars which again gets back to the math of music) each of the records. Think of it as lego. If it doesn't smack you in the head with what I mean with that statement, hit my website end email me off of there and I will explain further. |
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| DJ STEEVROCK |
The battle is now over. Lets all now thank and praise the dj gods. |
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| djlithium |
nice idea but poorly implimented. Major flaws in that design, but at least someone is thinking.
Still we have to cover off the other end of it. Technology is one thing, filtering through the "noise" is another. |
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| jdat |
It's totally true that the whole "visual" aspect of the medium is certainly a downside with cds compared to vinyl where you can see the track.
But the cdj1000 do have the wave display form ..... granted it's worthless compared to the "visual" of a vinyl but it's still a step into playing out somewhat properly with cd. |
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| Gandido |
| quote: | Originally posted by ionized
If anything, CDs are harder to mix on. You can't see the buildups of the track like you can in Vinyl so you need to know the track better. The pitch shifters are less tactile that touching the edge of the platter or twisting the spindle like you do on Vinyl, hence take more getting used to.
Plus if you want to take advantge or loops, samples and reverse play it means you can take your techniques to a much higher level which in turn makes mixing that much harder.
Saying someone lacks the 'skills' because they mix on CDs is just showing your complete ignorance of new technology. Infact I feel sorry for you, since your obviously going to be left behind when more forward thinking DJs embrace the digital format.
Fair enough, if its all about collecting hard to find tracks for you, then Vinyl certainly has it. Your not going to find that kind of nostalgia in the digital realm. But if you mix because you love expressing yourself and creating technical mixes that push forward the genre, then baby... CDs have got it! |
I had a post like this written up but I just wanted to make sure that if someone else said it first then he should get the credit.
Exactly what he said. I use both. CDs don't have that "feel" (tactile feel) that vinyl has but they are so much more powerful when you want to get creative. |
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| Nemesis44 |
Saying that CD's are easier or harder to mix on is absolute horse . (Pardon the expression) ;)
It's just a question of what you are used to and which one you start with.
You may have to know the track but you should know that with vinyl too and besides the Pioneer has a wave display which may not be perfect but is more than enough to tell you what you need to know.
djlithium says it very well, and to be honest you should know these things as a DJ.
Cheers
Nem |
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| jusware |
| The only reason I'm considering migrating to Cds is because I spin psytrance and dark trance. Psytrance is almost impossible to find on vinyl. 99.5% of all new releases are being released on CD. |
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| djlithium |
LIE~!!!
You are obviously looking on the wrong end of the planet for your Psytrance. Try hongkong. :) Not London. |
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