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Palestinian-Israeli Conflict Thread (pg. 10)
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| Magnetonium |
Yoepus - THERE ARE STILL REFUGEE CAMPS WITHIN ISRAEL full of Palestinians. And Arab states didnt encourage Palestinians to leave Israel - who the hell wants to have hundreds of thousands of refugees? Where's the logic in that, especially when we all know how much the Arab states welcomed the idea of the state of Israel, LOL. Yoepus, you lost this argument long ago. |
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| Magnetonium |
Yoepus, show me the proof of an agreement where Arabs and Jews decided to swap spaces to allow Jews their own state on the place of the people living there. Dont tell me the crap where Jews DECIDED the create their own state, call in all their friends in the region, while expecting at the same time for Arab states to sit there, nod, clap and do accordingly the same for Arabs. They never agreed and you know it. Jews did all this, and then you blame Arab states for not agreeing to expulsion by force of over 700,00 Palestinians who didnt want to move. And Jews moved on their own. There was no chant HEY, THERE IS A PALESTINIAN STATE FORMING, LETS ALL GO THERE! Your arguments are unfounded because you ASSUME that just because Jews decided to one day create their own state, somewhere in the world there will instantaneous a similar Palestinian state will form. :haha: If Jews wanted to move, they should have made arrangements for Palestinians, otherwise if the other party refuses, there is no deal and your proceedings are criminal, which is what EXACTLY Israel did. |
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| Fir3start3r |
| quote: | Originally posted by Magnetonium
Yoepus - THERE ARE STILL REFUGEE CAMPS WITHIN ISRAEL full of Palestinians. And Arab states didnt encourage Palestinians to leave Israel - who the hell wants to have hundreds of thousands of refugees? Where's the logic in that, especially when we all know how much the Arab states welcomed the idea of the state of Israel, LOL. Yoepus, you lost this argument long ago. |
Since you're little confused on this whole situation, here's a primer...
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WHO ARE THE PALESTINIANS?
WHAT & WHERE is PALESTINE?
Please Note: The terms B.C. (Before Christ or Before the Christian Era) and A.D.("Anno Domini" Latin for "In the Year of Our Lord") have been replaced with B.C.E (Before the Common Era, or Christian, Era) and C.E. (the Common Era) so as to respect all visitors to this site. The terms are interchangeable and both are based upon the Gregorian Calendar.
These and other questions will be addressed more fully as you go through this website. However, there is a preliminary historical fact that must be established now. There has never been a civilization or a nation referred to as "Palestine" and the very notion of a "Palestinian Arab nation" having ancient attachments to the Holy Land going back to time immemorial is one of the biggest hoaxes ever perpetrated upon the world! There is not, nor has there ever been, a distinct "Palestinian" culture or language. Further, there has never been a Palestinian state governed BY Arab Palestinians in history, nor was there ever a serious Arab-Palestinian national movement until 1964... three years BEFORE the Arabs of "Palestine" lost the West Bank [Judea and Samaria] and Gaza as a result of the 1967 Six-Day War (which the Arabs started). Even the so-called leader of the "Palestinian" people, Yasser Arafat, is EGYPTIAN! In short, the so-called Arab "Palestinians" are a manufactured people...a people with no history and no authenticity... whose sole purpose for existence is to destroy the Jewish State!
Israel first became a nation in 1312 B.C.E., two thousand years before the rise of Islam! Seven hundred and twenty-six years later in 586 B.C.E. these first ancient Jews in the Land of Israel [Judea] were overrun and Israel's First Jewish Temple (on Jerusalem's Old City Temple Mount) was destroyed by Nebuchadnezzar, king of ancient Babylon. Many of the Jews were killed or expelled; however many were allowed to remain. These Jews along with their progeny and other Jews who would resettle over the next 500 years, rebuilt the Nation of Israel and also a Second Temple in Jerusalem upon the Temple Mount. Thus the claim that Jews suddenly appeared fifty years ago right after the Holocaust and drove out the Arabs is preposterous!
Then in 70 C.E. (nearly 2000 years ago), it was the Roman Empire's turn to march through ancient Israel and destroy the SECOND Jewish Temple, slaughtering or driving out much of its Jewish population. Many Jews left on their own because conditions for life were made unbearable in many respects... yet thousands upon thousands stayed and rebelled on for centuries in order to once again rebuild a Jewish Nation in this Holy Land.
Over 3250 years, various Peoples, Religions and Empires marched through Jerusalem, Israel's ancient capital. The region was successively ruled by the Hebrews [Jews], Assyrians, Babylonians, Persians, Greeks, Maccabeans, Romans, Byzantines, Arabs, Egyptians, the Crusaders, Mamelukes, the Turks (who indifferently governed the backward, neglected territory from the 16th century until the British drove them out during World War I) and then once again by the Jews in 1948. None bothered, nor were they in the least bit inclined, to build a Nation of their own... EXCEPT the Jews!
It must be noted that in 636 C.E., when the Arabs marauders came to the land and uprooted even more of its Jews, they did not form any Arab nation there... and certainly not a "Palestinian" nation. They were simply "Arabs" who, as did others before them, moved into a geo-political area called "Palestine!" And remember this one fact... it was not the Jews who "usurped" (a favorite word from the Arab propagandists) the land from the Arabs. If anything, it was the Arabs in 636 C.E. who overran and stole it from the Jews!
No nation, other than the ancient nation of Israel and later again in 1948 with the rebirth of the 2nd Nation of Israel, has ever ruled as a sovereign national entity on this land. A mighty Jewish empire extended over this entire area before the Arabs --- and their Islam --- were even born! The Jewish People have one of the most legitimate Birth Certificates of any nations in the world. Every time there is an archaeological dig in Israel, it does nothing but support the fact that the Jewish People have had a presence there for well over 3,000 years. The national coins, the pottery, the cities, the ancient Hebrew texts... all support this claim. Yes, other peoples have passed through, but there is no mistaking the fact that Jews have always had a continual presence in that land for over 3,000 years. This predates and certain dwarfs any claims that other peoples in the regions may have. The ancient Philistines are extinct. Many other ancient peoples are extinct. They do not have the unbroken line to this date that the Jews have. And if you want to talk religion, fine. G-d GAVE the Land of Israel to the Jewish People. And G-d does nothing by accident!
ANCIENT MAPS
The Kingdom of David and Solomon - 1077 - 997 BCE
Kingdom of Herod- 30 BCE to 70 CE
Jewish Communities in the Land of Israel -7th-11th Centuries
"PALESTINE?"
The term "Palestine" came from the name that the conquering Roman Empire gave the ancient Land of Israel in an attempt to obliterate and de-legitimize the Jewish presence in the Holy Land. The name "Palestine" was invented in the year 135 C.E. Before it was known as Judea, which was the southern kingdom of ancient Israel. The Roman Procurator in charge of the Judean-Israel territories was so angry at the Jews for revolting that he called for his historians and asked them who were the worst enemies of the Jews in their past history. The scribes said, "the Philistines." Thus, the Procurator declared that Land of Israel would from then forward be called "Philistia" [further bastardized into "Palaistina"] to dishonor the Jews and obliterate their history. Hence the name "Palestine."
One more thing. Very often one hears the revisionists and propagandists finding ancient historical links between the "Philistines" ("Invaders" in Hebrew) and the Arab "Palestinians." There is no truth to this claim! The Philistines were one of a number of Sea Peoples who reached the eastern Mediterranean region approximately 1250-1100 B.C.E. They were actually an amalgamation of various ethnic groups, primarily of Aegean and south-east European origin [Greece, Crete and Western Turkey] and they died out over 2500 years ago! Those Philistines were not Arab... and neither was Goliath! The Arabs of "Palestine" are just that... Arabs! And these Arabs of "Palestine" have about as much historical roots to the ancient Philistines as Yasser Arafat has to the Eskimos!
The ancient, indigenous inhabitants of Palestine are long perished from the earth. Canaanites, Phoencians, and then Philistines, all were dominated by the Israelites before 1060 B.C.E. Most of these cultural identities dissolved completely by the neo-Babylonian age, or, the 6th century B.C.E. Arabs weren’t even in Palestine until the mid-7th century C.E., over a thousand years later, after Palestine’s 1,300-year Jewish history. Arabs later living in Palestine never developed themselves or the land, but remained nomadic and quasi-primitive.
Even the word "Palestine" has no meaning in Arabic - every word in Arabic has some meaning deriving from the Koran, but the word "Palestine" does not. Even the term "Palestinian people" is rather ironic since the letter "P" is non-existent in the Arab language. If anything, the name "Palestine" was associated with Jews. In the years leading up to the rebirth of Israel in 1948, those who spoke of "Palestinians" were nearly always referring to the region's Jewish residents. For example, the "Palestine Post" [forerunner of today's Jerusalem Post] newspaper and the Palestine Symphony Orchestra were all-Jewish. The "Palestine Brigade Regiment" was composed exclusively of Jewish volunteers in the British World War II Army. In fact, Arab leaders rejected the notion of a unique "Palestinian Arab" identity, insisting that Palestine was merely a part of "Greater Syria."
THE RETURN TO ZION
A return through both time and space to their ancestral homeland
The Land of Israel was never devoid of Jews, although at times she numbered only in the tens of thousands. This was because the land was virtually uninhabitable when the Jews once again began their God-given right AND duty to return en masse to the land of their forefathers (the Zionist Movement) in the 1880s. The silly rhetoric about a massive Arab presence being overrun by "invading Jews" is quickly dispelled by Mark Twain, who visited the area in 1867. From his book, "The Innocents Abroad"... "A desolate country whose soil is rich enough, but is given over wholly to weeds... a silent mournful expanse.... a desolation.... we never saw a human being on the whole route.... hardly a tree or shrub anywhere. Even the olive tree and the cactus, those fast friends of a worthless soil, had almost deserted the country."
The Jews did not displace anyone, because very few of the people who were there actually owned the land. Most were absentee owners residing elsewhere. Another fact hardly mentioned by the "new historians" is that the arriving Jews never threw anyone off any land. All land was purchased legally from the original owners... whether they be from "Palestine" itself or elsewhere. Furthermore, top dollar was paid for this land which, in many cases, was uninhabited and hardly more than swamp land and rocky terrain. Only about 120,000 Arabs resided in an area that now comprises the State of Israel, Jordan and the so-called "West Bank" [Judea and Samaria] in between. By 1890, the number of Jews who had settled in Palestine reached 50,000 and, by 1907, numbered 100,000. In Jerusalem alone the Jews numbered more than 25,000, out of a total population in the city of only 40,000 Jews, Christians and Arabs. The Arabs did, however, constitute a majority over the sparsely populated countryside abutting Jerusalem.
1880's
For more remarkable early photos of the Holy Land click Here
From 1888 until 1915 there were about six locust plagues that made the land nearly uninhabitable. In the 1915 locust plague alone some 40,000 people died and large numbers of Jews and Arabs left the land. Those that returned did not do so until about 1922 when the Zionist money to reclaim the land started coming in and a pipe line was laid. Then both Arabs and Jews started to come in in large numbers.
Palestine's early Jewish Zionists were idealistic pioneers who arrived in pre-state Israel with every intention of living in peace alongside their Arab neighbors and upgrading the quality of life for all of the land's inhabitants. These pre-Israel Zionists (and later, Israelis) had tried to develop peacefully for the dual benefit of Jews and Arabs in the land. But the Arab leadership always, starting in the earliest days, took the low road of insisting that the only solution was for the Jews to get out, even if that meant continued poverty and stagnation. When Arab demands were not met, they always resorted to violence.
The vast majority of Arabs came to the area after these early Zionist pioneers began draining the malaria-infested swamps (above photo) and plowing the land! In doing so, these Jews created the economic opportunities and medical availabilities which attracted Arabs from both surrounding territories and far-away lands! In fact, over 90% of the Arabs migrated there within the last one hundred years. Most of the Arabs in "Palestine" were interlopers and squatters originating from Syria, Jordan, Egypt, Iraq and other lands who simply took possession of pieces of land. So much for their unfounded claims that they have been there since "time immemorial!" These Arabs came from disorganized collections of tribes with a tradition of constantly terrorizing each other and trying to seize land from their neighbors. Many of them were social outcasts and criminals who could not find jobs in their own countries so they searched for their luck elsewhere. Unfortunately, those Arab immigrants imported into the Holy Land their age-old culture of terrorizing neighbors in order to seize land. In fact, today's Arab "Palestinians", let by Arafat and his PLO (sanitized to the PA, or Palestinian Authority...which is nothing more than A Network of Murderers Masquerading As Government!) are still nothing more than street thugs, bullies and 'Little Saddams' found elsewhere throughout most of the most Arab world.
Yet while the returning Jews were highly motivated to restore the land, the Arabs seethed with envy and hatred for they lacked both the leadership to inspire and motivate them for they were, in fact, historical strangers to this land! Unlike the Jews, those Arabs who immigrated there had no ancient attachments to or historical memories of this homeland ... this ancient Land of the JEWS!
The real problem facing those Arabs today is not the lack of a homeland. The historical root-cause of their problem and frustration is the fact that the countries they came from have not agreed to accept them back in. This is why so many of them live, up until today, in refugee camps, in neighboring Arab countries, lacking fundamental civil rights. In their frustration they feel that the only hope and choice they have is to try and steal someone else's country!
In Conclusion:
There was no "Arab Palestinian" history before the Arabs manufactured one shortly after 1948, and then especially after the June 1967 Arab-Israeli War! In an interview with the Dutch newspaper "Trau" (March 31, 1977), PLO executive committee member Zahir Muhsein said, "The Palestinian people does not exist. The creation of a Palestinian state is only a means for continuing our struggle against the state of Israel for our Arab unity. In reality today there is no difference between Jordanians, Palestinians, Syrians and Lebanese. Only for political and tactical reasons do we speak today about the existence of a Palestinian people, since Arab national interests demand that we posit the existence of a distinct 'Palestinian people' to oppose Zionism. It is also been a "conceptual" war for ownership of the term "Palestinian" which has been transferred over to the Arabs whereas, before 1967, "Palestine" has always been synonymous with Eretz Israel and the Land of Israel.
Archeological sites to this very day continue to yield artifacts with Hebrew writing, not some fictitious "Palestinian" or Arabic text! The so-called "Palestinian" Arabs were simply then, as they are now, Arabs no different culturally, historically or ethnically from other Arabs living in any of the 24 Arab countries from which they emigrated. The suggestion that the "Palestinians" are some sub-group of Arabs with their own unique identity is pure fiction! Great propaganda... but still pure fiction! And had not the Arabs continued to brainwash generation upon generation into believing this HISTORICAL HOGWASH about some ancient "Arab Palestinian" ties to the Holy Land, most could have gotten themselves a real life by now with much less bloodshed and suffering for everyone concerned!
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>>Source<<
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Disclaimer: I'm not necessarily propping this website either, I just grabbed the article for it's insite before you go making any more assumptions... |
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| Magnetonium |
| quote: | Originally posted by Fir3start3r
Since you're little confused on this whole situation, here's a primer...
>>Source<<
[edit]
Disclaimer: I'm not necessarily propping this website either, I just grabbed the article for it's insite before you go making any more assumptions... |
I have books and even Wikipedia information that suggests that the areas now inhabited by Israelis have had populations of over a million people (not including Jews).
Haha, this is an Israeli website, LOL, go on the main page ... Masada, with Israeli flag!! LMAO, Mossad anyone? LOL, thats pure and clear propaganda. People lived there, and 700,000 Palestinians WERE forcefully removed (and they werent Jews). So you are saying that these areas werent populated, and then the 700,000 number was taken out of the ass? This article contradicts a lot of things. People did live there, and they WERE FORCED OUT ILLEGALLY. It doesnt matter if they lived there 20, 50, 100, 1000 years - it was their home, they had good lives and then Israel came and forced them off to refugee camps. Easy as that! Refugee camps didnt appear out of nowhere, you know! :haha:
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LOL, here a random quote from that same propaganda website about the refugees:
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Once and for all, Israel must remind whoever has to be reminded that the responsibility for the displaced Arabs lies wholly and absolutely on the shoulders of the Arab states. Their utterly unprovoked invasion of the territory of Israel in May 1948 was a crime.
Indeed, the Israeli government should long ago have declared - but even now it is not too late: "We shall not participate in any discussion of the so-called refugee problem. This is a problem the Arab nation must solve for itself in its own spacious territories."
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The writer, a co-founder with Menachem Begin of the Herut Party and member of the first Knesset, is a biographer and essayist.
Just Say "No!"
Thus - and by other more expectable means of humanistic falsification we have, in the third generation, a large amorphous mass of Arabs, all of them comfortably lumped together in official UN lists as Arab refugees, described as "victims of Israeli aggression" and demanding the right of "return."
While everybody in Israel has rejected the Arab demand for accepting the return of the "refugees," the government has not rejected the idea that if negotiations for a settlement take place the problem of the refugees will be discussed. Moreover, there has been talk of "compensation" by Israel.
There have even been voices suggesting the return of a "symbolic few" of the refugees. Israel must, from the outset and forever, unequivocally reject such ideas.
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LOL LOL LOL
LOL!!! AND THEN ISRAEL INVADED SUEZ CANAL, WEST BANK, LEBANON, SYRIA, AND THAT WAS NOT A WAR CRIME! Lol, wow ... bwahahaha, I love the stupidity.
Let me reiterate my main point: Arab states did not agree to Palestinian uprooting, and Jews came to Israel on their own, from provisions and Zionist campaign around the world. There were far more Jews that came to Israel from Europe, North America, Soviet Union than from Arab states. Here's some common sense: if all Palestinians moved out and only Jews were left, whose land is it now? It would be the same as the Hebrew expulsions by the Romans!
If you were to decide to move elsewhere, and the other party refuses to do theirs accordingly, the deal is off. And what Israel did, proceeding anyway, was a crime, a crime against humanity, especially when you still see refugee camps WITHIN ISRAEL ITSELF, and I am not talking about the ones in Syria, Lebanon, that are overpopulated countries as it is with their own problems. |
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| Fir3start3r |
| quote: | Originally posted by Magnetonium
I have books and even Wikipedia information that suggests that the areas now inhabited by Israelis have had populations of over a million people (not including Jews).
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It's nice that you have books, everyone should.
No one here is questioning the number btw...
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Haha, this is an Israeli website, LOL, go on the main page ... Masada, with Israeli flag!! LMAO, Mossad anyone? LOL, thats pure and clear propaganda.
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I've already disclaimered that it's a pro-Israli site but if you want to point that out again to try and give yourself credence, be my guest.
So let me follow this logic shall we? (Hey if you can make wild assumptions, I guess I'm obliged then)
Are you saying then that all French Canadian websites from Quebec are propaganda then as well?
(Trying to chuckle it up with the rest doesn't exactly support your arguments any further either by the way...)
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People lived there, and 700,000 Palestinians WERE forcefully removed (and they werent Jews).
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There's that number again. I should try typing it too. 700,000.
There. Doesn't it just somehow magically give one's argument a stronger position? 700,000. I feel better now.
And how long have those 700,000 been there wasting away?
When do those 700,000 plan to move on and doing something with their lives?
Pointing to Israel for their folly, for what, 2-3 generations ago, is getting REAL old. They need to pull themselves up by their own bootstraps. It's not like the rest of the world will ignore them if they actually see something positive being done.
Help is there, but they're simply not going everything they need because they're crying about it. Help comes to those that help themselves. Learn it.
Why not cry about the plight of the Native North American Indians while you're at it; were they not 'forcefully removed' as well?
I certainly don't hear anything coming on that front.
What about all the Sudanese that were forced to evacuate in the war there?
There are MILLIONS of displaced people that have been 'forcefully removed' in conflicts all around the world and certainly more recently than this one.
The tragedy isn't that it happened, the real tragedy is that they've done ZERO about their situation and now generations of children are suffering for it.
Not only have done NOTHING but have turned down a number of olive branches for what? Pride? Honor?
Whatever it is, they need to get the pickle out of their ass and think seriously about what they're doing to THEMSELVES.
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So you are saying that these areas werent populated, and then the 700,000 number was taken out of the ass?
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You either need to rephrase that question or stop insulting my intelligence...
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This article contradicts a lot of things. People did live there, and they WERE FORCED OUT ILLEGALLY. It doesnt matter if they lived there 20, 50, 100, 1000 years - it was their home, they had good lives and then Israel came and forced them off to refugee camps. Easy as that! Refugee camps didnt appear out of nowhere, you know! :haha:
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What you don't seem to realize is that Israel ALREADY EXISTED before the Jews were forced to flee European and Arabs lands.
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Historical roots
See also: History of ancient Israel and Judah, Jewish history, and History of the Jews in the Land of Israel
The first historical record of the word "Israel" comes from an Egyptian stele documenting military campaigns in Canaan. Although this stele which referred to a people (the determinative for 'country' was absent) is dated to approximately 1211 BCE,[7] Jewish tradition holds that the Land of Israel has been a Jewish Holy Land and Promised land for four thousand years, since the time of the patriarchs (Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob). The land of Israel holds a special place in Jewish religious obligations, encompassing Judaism's most important sites (such as the remains of the First and Second Temples of the Jewish People). Connected with these two versions of the temple are religiously significant rites which stand as the origin for many aspects of modern Judaism.[8] Starting around the eleventh century BCE, the first of a series of Jewish kingdoms and states established intermittent rule over the region that lasted more than a millennium.[9]
The holy Menorah sacked from Jerusalem, as seen on the Arch of Titus. Traditionally, Jews are forbidden from walking under the arch as it is taken to express the sovereignty of Titus over the Jews.
The holy Menorah sacked from Jerusalem, as seen on the Arch of Titus. Traditionally, Jews are forbidden from walking under the arch as it is taken to express the sovereignty of Titus over the Jews.
Under Assyrian, Babylonian, Persian, Greek, Roman, Byzantine, and (briefly) Sassanian rule, Jewish presence in the region dwindled because of mass expulsions. In particular, the failure of the Bar Kokhba's revolt against the Roman Empire in 132 CE resulted in a large-scale expulsion of Jews. It was during this time that the Romans gave the name Syria Palaestina to the geographic area, in an attempt to erase Jewish ties to the land.[10] Nevertheless, the Jewish presence in Palestine remained constant. The main Jewish population shifted from the Judea region to the Galilee. The Mishnah and Jerusalem Talmud, two of Judaism's most important religious texts, were composed in the region during this period. The land was conquered from the Byzantine Empire in 638 CE during the initial Muslim conquests. The Hebrew niqqud was invented in Tiberias during this time. The area was ruled by the Omayyads, then by the Abbasids, Crusaders, the Kharezmians and Mongols, before becoming part of the empire of the Mamluks (1260-1516) and the Ottoman Empire in 1517.
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>>Source<<
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LOL!!! AND THEN ISRAEL INVADED SUEZ CANAL, WEST BANK, LEBANON, SYRIA, AND THAT WAS NOT A WAR CRIME! Lol, wow ... bwahahaha, I love the stupidity. |
Ok you REALLY need to learn your history and this just exemplifies it in the highest. |
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| M.Johan |
| quote: | Originally posted by Fir3start3r
Ok you REALLY need to learn your history and this just exemplifies it in the highest. |
So u want to say that middle east is a Jewish land |
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| shaolin_Z |
| LOL, the "Palestinians don't exist" argument. :haha: :haha: :haha: |
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| Yoepus |
| quote: | Originally posted by Magnetonium
Yoepus - THERE ARE STILL REFUGEE CAMPS WITHIN ISRAEL full of Palestinians. |
Name one. |
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| George Smiley |
| quote: | | Please Note: The terms B.C. (Before Christ or Before the Christian Era) and A.D.("Anno Domini" Latin for "In the Year of Our Lord") have been replaced with B.C.E (Before the Common Era, or Christian, Era) and C.E. (the Common Era) so as to respect all visitors to this site |
It's political correctness gone mad I tell you!!! :eyes: |
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| Magnetonium |
You guys are arguing whether its fair to call these people Palestinian or not. I am talking about whether these people who lived for many years on those lands having rights to their lands. The fact is, these people were forced out whether you like it not. And they weren't "100% Palestinian" but a mixture of cultures from historic developments. That impurity does not warrant and allow the forceful and illegal expulsion of these people from their lands.
"http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palestinian_refugees
About two thirds of Palestinian Arabs fled or were expelled from the territories which came under Israeli control after the 1948 Arab-Israeli War. This exodus continued during the war until after the armistice that ended it (see Palestinian Exodus.) These refugees were generally not permitted to return to their homes. Shlomo Ben-Ami, the former Israeli foreign minister, sheds some light on what brought the Palestinian refugee problem into exisitence:
“The reality on the ground was that of an Arab community in a state of terror facing a ruthless Israeli army whose path to victory was paved not only by its exploits against the regular Arab armies, but also by the intimidation and at times atrocities and massacres it perpetrated against the civilian Arab community.” [6]
The number of refugees who fled or were expelled is controversial. Estimates range from a low-end figure of around 400,000 claimed by the Israeli government, to over 950,000 according to some Arab sources and human rights organizations [7]. The official UN estimate is 711,000. [5]
"The Israeli government passed the Absentee Property Law, which cleared the way for the confiscation of the property of refugees. The government also demolished many of the refugees' villages, and resettled many Arab homes in urban communities with Jewish refugees and immigrants."
The Palestinian refugees claim the right of return, based on Article 13 of the Universal Declaration of Human Rights ("Everyone has the right to leave any country including his own, and to return to his country") and United Nations General Assembly Resolution 194, paragraph 11, where the General Assembly:
Resolves that the refugees wishing to return to their homes and live at peace with their neighbors should be permitted to do so at the earliest practicable date, and that compensation should be paid for the property of those choosing not to return and for the loss of or damage to property which, under principles of international law or in equity, should be made good by the governments or authorities responsible...
Instructs the Conciliation Commission to facilitate the repatriation, resettlement and economic and social rehabilitation of the refugees and the payment of compensation.
Here's A RANDOM example of refugee camp WITHIN Israel:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Khan_Yunis
aGH, what the heck, have the whole list of them all:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o...n_refugee_camps
Here's United Nations data:
http://www.un.org/unrwa/refugees/images/map.jpg
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| Yoepus |
| quote: | Originally posted by Magnetonium
Let me reiterate my main point: Arab states did not agree to Palestinian uprooting, and Jews came to Israel on their own, from provisions and Zionist campaign around the world. There were far more Jews that came to Israel from Europe, North America, Soviet Union than from Arab states. Here's some common sense: if all Palestinians moved out and only Jews were left, whose land is it now? It would be the same as the Hebrew expulsions by the Romans! |
I don't know exactly why I am continuing this discussion, as it looks like you have clearly gone mad. But perhaps for those lurkers that might actually be following this thread...
The British gave the UN which gave Israel the land.
The British won this land during WWI from the Ottoman empire. This is akin to how the nations of Poland, Serbia, Croatia, South Korea, North Korea, South Africa, Kenya, Iran, Saudia Arabia, Syria, Egypt, Iraq, Greece, Albania, Jordan, Libya, Morocco, Algeria, Taiwan, Belarus, Ireland, every single Caribbean and Pacific country... and I could go on and on and on.
Most of the countries in the world are very young, many less than 50, most under a 100.
So why should Israel be singled out?
Lets all recreate the Ottoman empire, right? I'm sure you would like that, Crimean War anyone?
How exactly did Russia obtain those territories? Isn't it time it was given back to the people there? Who were massacred and weren't provided with the opportunity to stay in refugee camps?
Free Crimean Tartaria!
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If you were to decide to move elsewhere, and the other party refuses to do theirs accordingly, the deal is off. And what Israel did, proceeding anyway, was a crime, a crime against humanity, especially when you still see refugee camps WITHIN ISRAEL ITSELF, and I am not talking about the ones in Syria, Lebanon, that are overpopulated countries as it is with their own problems. |
Israel is more densely populated than any other Arab country. Seriously, where do you come up with this nonsense? |
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| M.Johan |
| quote: | British Jews break away from 'pro-Israeli' Board of Deputies
By Martin Hodgson
Published: 05 February 2007
A new organisation to represent British Jews is to be launched today in response to a perceived pro-Israeli bias in existing Jewish bodies in the UK.
The founders of Independent Jewish Voices, IJV, which will include such luminaries as the Nobel Prize-winning playwright Harold Pinter and the historian Eric Hobsbawm, say that the group is being established as a counter-balance to the uncritical support for Israeli policies offered by established bodies such as the Board of Deputies of British Jews.
More than 100 high-profile British Jews have already signed the group's founding declaration: "Those who claim to speak on behalf of Jews in Britain and other countries consistently put support for the policies of an occupying power above the human rights of the occupied people."
Other signatories include the film director Mike Leigh, human rights lawyer Geoffrey Bindman, fashion designer Nicole Farhi and the actors Stephen Fry and Zoe Wanamaker. The initiative was born out of frustration with the assumption by non-Jews that Jewish opinion in the UK is monolithic in its support for Israel's policies.
Professor Hobsbawm told The Independent: "It is important for non-Jews to know that there are Jews ... who do not agree with the apparent consensus within the Jewish community that the only good Jew is one who supports Israel."
Supporters hope to create an opportunity for Jews of different political affiliations to express opinions "without being accused of disloyalty or being dismissed as self-hating", said a spokeswoman. "The idea is to create a platform for critical debate about the situation in the Middle East that until now has not existed."
IJV is not positioning itself as a replacement for the Board of Deputies of British Jews, but its charter includes an implicit rebuke for the Board. "The broad spectrum of opinion among the Jewish population of this country is not reflected by those institutions which claim authority to represent the Jewish community as a whole," it says.
Founded in 1760, the Board of Deputies has long been seen as the established mouthpiece for British Jews. But its unstinting support for Israel has drawn censure from critics of the country's tactics in the occupied territories. The psychologist Susie Orbach, who has also signed the IJV declaration, said: "As a Jew, I feel a particular duty to oppose the injustice that is done to Palestinians ... The Israeli government does not speak for me."
Mr Bindman said: "The easy assumption that all Jews support Israel and its ill-treatment of Palestinians is an insidious form of racism. I, like many Jews in and outside Israel, am appalled and disgusted by the illegal occupation by Israel of Palestinian territory and its brutal treatment of Palestinians."
At the height of the bombardments of Lebanon and Gaza last year, the Board of Deputies organised a rally to support Israel.
David Goldberg, the author and emeritus rabbi of the Liberal Jewish Synagogue, said: "When Israel's Jewish supporters abroad don't speak out against disastrous policies, that neither guarantee safety for her citizens nor produce the right climate in which to try and reach a just peace with the Palestinians ... then they are ... acting against Israel's own long-term interests." |
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Not all Jews support wat is done by Israel |
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