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Palestinian-Israeli Conflict Thread (pg. 31)
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| Krypton |
| quote: | Originally posted by Fir3start3r
Yet Palestinians will continue to honour their POS terrorists as 'holy martyrs'... :rolleyes: |
That's because they see them as martyrs fighting oppression, just as Koran says. Is that too hard for you to understand? Calling them terrorists is not going to stop them. Why? Because terrorism is not the root of the conflict. You, my friend, have been distracted.
| quote: | >>Source<<
The Palestinians are great with their International media propaganda that's for sure - they have that down pat... |
I'm sure CNN, BBC, CBC, FOX NEWS are all dominated by their Palestinian masters...:eek: |
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| Fir3start3r |
| quote: | Originally posted by Krypton
That's because they see them as martyrs fighting oppression, just as Koran says. Is that too hard for you to understand? Calling them terrorists is not going to stop them. Why? Because terrorism is not the root of the conflict. You, my friend, have been distracted.
I'm sure CNN, BBC, CBC, FOX NEWS are all dominated by their Palestinian masters...:eek: |
It's funny that you don't see the dichotomy in this at all - In one hand they'll have the camera ready for the International media lapdogs to garner 'sympathy' and in the other, a camera for propoganda to their own people and children.
You, my friend, have been duped. |
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| Krypton |
| quote: | Originally posted by Fir3start3r
It's funny that you don't see the dichotomy in this at all - In one hand they'll have the camera ready for the International media lapdogs to garner 'sympathy' and in the other, a camera for propoganda to their own people and children.
You, my friend, have been duped. |
I'm duped? I'm focusing on the root of problem which is not terrorism, which you think it is, but on the occupation and suppression of the Palestinians. You are distracted by whoever you are listening to (probably AM talk radio) into thinking the problem comes from terrorism. Guess what, that is only a distraction, which you here are focused on. Nice try though on a come-back..;)
I'm surprised you think coverage of civilian casualties in conflict is propaganda. That really is laughable...:o |
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| Fir3start3r |
| quote: | Originally posted by Krypton
I'm duped? I'm focusing on the root of problem which is not terrorism, which you think it is, but on the occupation and suppression of the Palestinians. You are distracted by whoever you are listening to (probably AM talk radio) into thinking the problem comes from terrorism. Guess what, that is only a distraction, which you here are focused on. Nice try though on a come-back..;)
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If the Palestinians were anywhere near truthful in their willingness to resolve their situation, why is it they turn down everything that's practically handed to them?
Isn't it amazing that everything they get close to anything resembling a resolution, a suicide bomber shows up somehow.
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I'm surprised you think coverage of civilian casualties in conflict is propaganda. That really is laughable...:o |
Hardly laughable and yes, in the manner that the Palestinians use it, absolutely.
The Palestinians are saying one thing to the world and doing another behind closed doors and you don't think that's a problem?
What's truly sickening is the brainwashing they feed their children to perpetuate their ideology.
Just do a Google search on "Palestinian school books" and you'll see where I'm coming from in all this... |
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| celestial thug |
| whats an israel? The occupied Palestine should definately get more help from the world against its apprently nazi oppressors, that settled there with permission from the UK that got it from.....well youre guess is as good as mine,but it didnt come from the palestinians. |
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| Krypton |
| quote: | Originally posted by Fir3start3r
If the Palestinians were anywhere near truthful in their willingness to resolve their situation, why is it they turn down everything that's practically handed to them?
Isn't it amazing that everything they get close to anything resembling a resolution, a suicide bomber shows up somehow. |
Please cite a resolution and we'll see why the Palestinians reject almost every resolution. To begin with, the Palestinians or Arabs for that matter never accepted the partition of Israel because why? Because the majority Palestinians were against it. Now how can the UN partition a land in which the majority of the people are against the decision? |
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| Lebezniatnikov |
| quote: | Originally posted by Krypton
Please cite a resolution and we'll see why the Palestinians reject almost every resolution. To begin with, the Palestinians or Arabs for that matter never accepted the partition of Israel because why? Because the majority Palestinians were against it. Now how can the UN partition a land in which the majority of the people are against the decision? |
I dunno, ask Serbia. |
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| Krypton |
| quote: | Originally posted by Lebezniatnikov
I dunno, ask Serbia. |
The Kosovars were not immigrants to the region unlike the Jewish immigrants to the British Mandate in Palestine. |
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| Lebezniatnikov |
| quote: | Originally posted by Krypton
The Kosovars were not immigrants to the region unlike the Jewish immigrants to the British Mandate in Palestine. |
Sure they were.
And anyway - you can certainly argue that the Albanians already have a state, and the Jews did not. |
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| Krypton |
| quote: | Originally posted by Lebezniatnikov
Sure they were.
And anyway - you can certainly argue that the Albanians already have a state, and the Jews did not. |
1. This whole argument is irrelavent to the thread.
2. In Kosovo, there is a majority of one nation. This is different from Palestine which has experienced first a huge forced exodus of natives and then a gradual ethnic clensing of the region
3. I don't think your comparison of Kosovo and Palestine are relevant to each other because of the completely different factors. |
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| Lebezniatnikov |
| quote: | Originally posted by Krypton
1. This whole argument is irrelavent to the thread.
2. In Kosovo, there is a majority of one nation. This is different from Palestine which has experienced first a huge forced exodus of natives and then a gradual ethnic clensing of the region
3. I don't think your comparison of Kosovo and Palestine are relevant to each other because of the completely different factors. |
I think they're extraordinarily relevant to compare.
I just find it interesting that you support the independence of Kosovo, despite an already independent Albanian state in the region, but don't support the independence of Israel. Your sampling is interesting as well - Kosovo isn't ethnically homogeneous, and certainly used to be much more diverse than it is today, as a result of forced expulsions.
In this comparison, Kosovars = Israelis, and Serbians = Palestinians. Serbia doesn't like the Kosovars breaking away, and yet... it's ok? |
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| Fir3start3r |
| quote: | Originally posted by Krypton
Please cite a resolution and we'll see why the Palestinians reject almost every resolution. To begin with, the Palestinians or Arabs for that matter never accepted the partition of Israel because why? Because the majority Palestinians were against it. Now how can the UN partition a land in which the majority of the people are against the decision? |
*sigh*
You know you can Google this as well as anyone but ok...I'll even hi-light the important parts for you...
| quote: |
MYTH
"A secular, democratic Palestinian state in the West Bank and Gaza Strip is the solution to the conflict."
FACT
There is no such thing as a secular or democratic state in the Arab world. Islam is the official state religion in nearly every Arab country. The only place where mention is made of a "secular, democratic Palestinian state" is in the West, where the slogan is used to generate sympathy.
The PLO has never been democratic. Leadership in the PLO is determined by bullets — not ballots. Representation is determined by the size of each faction's militia. Opponents are not voted out of power; they are murdered. Moreover, if anything, the PLO has become less secular in recent years, in part to counter the growing influence of Islamic groups such as Hamas, which would never countenance mention of such a state.
In 1947, the Arabs rejected the UN partition plan, which would have created a Palestinian state. From 1948-67, when the West Bank and Gaza were ruled by Arabs, no thought was given to forming such a state. It is therefore ironic that the Arabs demand that Israel do for the West Bank and Gaza what they were unwilling to do when they occupied the area.
While Israel long opposed the creation of a Palestinian state, today Israelis recognize this will be the outcome of negotiations and that the Palestinian Authority is already a state in all but name. Israel would feel more comfortable with a democratic neighbor, but it has not imposed any conditions on the type of government the Palestinians adopt in the territories they control.
If the Palestinians were content to have a state in the West Bank and Gaza, the prospects for a final settlement would be very good; however, they have consistently held out for much more. Prior to the Oslo agreements, the Palestinians laid claim to all of Israel, but they have subsequently recognized Israel's right to exist (though their rhetoric often suggests the dream of returning to their homes in Jaffa, Haifa and elsewhere has not died). Still, today they want not only the entire West Bank and Gaza but Jerusalem, which they demand as their capital.
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>>Source<<
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WHO IS STANDING IN THE WAY OF A PALESTINIAN STATE?
There have been allegations that it is the Israeli “occupation” that is standing in the way of Palestinian statehood -- but it this the truth?
THE FIRST CLEAR CHANCE FOR A PALESTINIAN STATE WAS REJECTED BY THE ARAB NATIONS, NOT THE ISRAELIS
• In 1517 “Palestine” and most of the Middle East came under the control of the Ottoman Empire. After the Ottoman Turks were defeated in 1917, the region was temporarily assigned to Britain and France by the League of Nations to prepare for self-government.
• The Arabs received a total of twelve independent states and 3,500,000 square miles of land. In 1920, the League of Nations gave Great Britain the Mandate for Palestine which included 45,000 sq. miles to hold in trust for a Jewish homeland. But in 1921 the British subtracted 4/5ths (34,000) of that land and made it into a new Arab country called Jordan.
• This time period was marked by tensions between the Jewish and Arab populations which culminated in the Arab riots of 1936. In 1937 the British Peel commission recommended that the Mandate be partitioned further into a Jewish state and an Arab state. The Jewish state would comprise a tiny strip of land running from Tel Aviv to Haifa and a little strip east of Haifa -- about 20% of what remained of Palestine.
• The Zionist Congress accepted the concept of partition, but the Arab leadership rejected it and so the idea was abandoned by the British.
THE SECOND CLEAR CHANCE FOR A PALESTINIAN STATE WAS REJECTED BY THE ARAB NATIONS, NOT THE ISRAELIS
• On November 29, 1947, the UN General Assembly adopted Resolution 181 partitioning the Mandate into a Jewish state, an Arab state and a corpus separatum under international jurisdiction for Jerusalem. On December 17, 1947 the Arab League adopted a resolution totally rejecting the partition, declaring that they would use all means at their disposal, including armed force, to prevent it.
• Had the Arab nations accepted UN Resolution 181, not a single Palestinian or Jew would have become a refugee and an independent Arab state would now exist beside Israel.
THE THIRD CLEAR CHANCE FOR A PALESTINIAN STATE WAS REJECTED BY THE ARAB NATIONS, NOT THE ISRAELIS
• Israel declared Independence on May 14, 1948. The very next day the League of Arab States collectively attacked the new Jewish State, vowing to wipe it off the face of the earth. The territory that was to have been the Arab Palestinian State under U.N. Resolution 181 disappeared.
• From 1948 until 1967, Gaza and the West Bank were occupied by Egypt and Jordan respectively. Neither country offered this land for an independent Palestinian State. And there were no calls for Palestinian Statehood on the part of the international community or the Palestinians themselves until Israel took control of these territories.
THE FOURTH CLEAR CHANCE FOR A PALESTINIAN STATE WAS REJECTED BY THE ARAB NATIONS, NOT THE ISRAELIS
• On May 16, 1967, Egyptian President Gamal Nasser ordered U.N. peacekeeping forces out of the Sinai Peninsula. During the three weeks from May 16 to June 5 2007, Egypt, already in an alliance with Syria, formed an emergency military pact with Jordan, Iraq, Algeria, Saudi Arabia, Sudan, Tunisia, Libya and Morocco and began sending forces to join the coming fight. President Nasser blocked the Straits of Tiran cutting off Israel’s only oil supply. With troops and armor massing on Israel’s every border, Egypt openly announced that “[t]he battle has come in which we shall destroy Israel” (Cairo Radio). and the collective armies of Egypt, Jordan, and Syria with assistance from Iraqi, Saudi, Algerian and Kuwaiti troops lined up on the borders of Israel. There was no question of the Arab intent.
• Israel launched a pre-emptive airstrike when they got intelligence that Egypt was within hours of attacking them. Israel thus acquired the West Bank, Gaza, Sinai and Golan Heights in self-defense.
• Days after the 6-day war of 1967, Israel tried to open negotiations for land in return for peace treaties. But the League of Arab States responded by saying: NO peace with Israel
NO recognition of Israel, NO negotiations with Israel.
THE FIFTH CLEAR CHANCE FOR A PALESTINIAN STATE WAS REJECTED BY THE ARAB NATIONS, NOT THE ISRAELIS
• Israeli Prime Minister Ehud Barak made an initial offer at Camp David in 2000 which involved portions of the West Bank. Yasser Arafat rejected the offer, made no counter offers and walked out of the summit.
• In December -- just as his presidency was coming to an end, President Clinton made a final proposal to both sides. It was offered as a last and final -- take it or leave it -- deal. He verbally proposed that the Palestinians would get all of Gaza, 97% of contiguous territory on the West Bank, East Jerusalem as the capital of a State of Palestine, 3/ 4 of the Old City and a $30 billion dollar fund to compensate refugees.
• The Israelis accepted this offer -- the Palestinians did not.
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>>Source<<
despite the actual reference source (it was a random Google search to prove the point) the fact remains that a number of resolutions have been before the Palestinians that they've turned down, yet try and find ONE Palestinian resolution easily as the above examples. |
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