Originally posted by shaolin_Z
For the love of God stop merging threads.
I've only merged 3 since I became a mod, and the reason why I merged this one is because the guy is talking about Palestinian life - do we really all those threads about the very same topic?
shaolin_Z
quote:
Originally posted by Lira
I've only merged 3 since I became a mod, and the reason why I merged this one is because the guy is talking about Palestinian life - do we really all those threads about the very same topic?
Check your PMs.
M.Johan
quote:
Originally posted by shaolin_Z
Look at this stupid bitch:
the same thing ,the same situation (no cameras)
Posted in p.3 of this thread
Dopey
quote:
Originally posted by shaolin_Z
Please stop spamming and post in the other thread. You already requested a title change, and it ain't going to happen. That's was the whole point of that thread, the title and what it implies.
:nervous:
shaolin_Z
quote:
Originally posted by Dopey
:nervous:
LOL, what's with the " :nervous: " dude :p ?
Magnetonium
quote:
Originally posted by M.Johan
the same thing ,the same situation (no cameras)
Posted in p.3 of this thread
How come I have never ever seen Western media show how Jews are throwing rocks, bashing and hating Palestinians while there's plenty of the other side? Ummmm, we know both sides have issues, but judging by the media, its like mainly Palestinians are at fault here. "We come to your land, take it, and you become the one at fault." LOL
shaolin_Z
quote:
Originally posted by Magnetonium
How come I have never ever seen Western media show how Jews are throwing rocks, bashing and hating Palestinians while there's plenty of the other side? Ummmm, we know both sides have issues, but judging by the media, its like mainly Palestinians are at fault here. "We come to your land, take it, and you become the one at fault." LOL
Dude, haven't you heard? There's an "anti-Israeli bias" in Western media, especially American media!
Dopey
quote:
Originally posted by Magnetonium
How come I have never ever seen Western media show how Jews are throwing rocks, bashing and hating Palestinians while there's plenty of the other side? Ummmm, we know both sides have issues, but judging by the media, its like mainly Palestinians are at fault here. "We come to your land, take it, and you become the one at fault." LOL
:stongue: You think there are no white teenagers throwing rocks at Mexicans in Texas? Maybe they should be suicide bombing the Palestinians instead of throwing rocks? I'm not saying it is excusable, but they are generally brainwashed kids, not 30-year-old jihadists.
shaolin_Z
So I posted this in the state sponsored terrorism thread, but I think it belongs here too. Any of you curious about the US' intimate and unusual relationship with Israel? Well, I think this indicates that the US is Israel's bitch, not the other way around:
quote:
The Washington Report on Middle East Affairs, March 2004
THOSE NOT INVITED TO SPEAK
STEAL THE SHOW
AT STATE DEPARTMENT LIBERTY DISCUSSION
By Delinda C. Hanley
The Department of State hosted on Jan. 12, 2004 a highly charged panel discussion on Israel's June 8, 1967 attack on the USS LIBERTY, which killed 34 Americans and wounded 172. Panelists included historians, an Israeli author, a bankruptcy judge, and a plucky investigative reporter. The State Department did not invite as speakers LIBERTY survivors or other military experts who played key roles in the tragedy. Nonetheless, despite clumsy attempts to silence them, the voices of survivors and their supporters came through lound and clear.
Moderator Dr. Marc Susser, the State Department historian, opened the two-day conference, called to mark the release of the third volume of a trilogy focusing on U.S. foreign policy during the Johnson administration. The latest volume documents U.S. policy directly before, during and after the June 1967 Arab-Israeli war and includes newly declassified documents concerning Israel's attack on the USS LIBERTY.
According to Susser, historians were granted full access to all the Johnson administration's files, and "selected those documents that best told the history of U.S. foreign policy." By law, Susser said, U.S. government documents are open to public scrutiny -- although he admitted that after nearly 37 years, some documents still could not be declassified. In a democracy, the State Department historian stated, people have the right to know, and their government must ensure its actions are not secret forever. (See text on the Offrice of the Historian Web site, .)
Ambassador David Satterfield, deputy assistant secretary of the Bureau of Near Eastern Affairs, next described the historical importance of the 1967 war, as Israel and the Arabs today make painful choices. Repeatedly referring to Palestinian terrorism, he neglected Israel's brutal attacks on Palestinian civilians, although he did say that Israeli settlement activity in Arab land captured in 1967 must stop. Satterfield's remarks dampened aud- ience expectations for an even-handed U.S. approach to peacemaking.
According to trilogy editor Dr. Harriet Schwar, her department took 26 years to compile this 1,100-page history of U.S. policy in the Middle East, weeding through documents culled from the White House, State Department, CIA, NSA, Navy and other U.S. government records. The most important documents have now been released, Schwar said, with only a few not declassified and a few excised.
As for Israel's attack on its ally's ship, Schwar said her staff found no evidence that the U.S. had overheard Israel's orders to attack the LIBERTY, or any indication that there ever had been any such recordings.
Dr. David Robarge of the Central Intelligence Agency's history staff was proud of the CIA's accurate analysis and unpoliticized intelligence in 1967. U.S. foreign policy mainly consisted of keeping out of the Arab-Israeli war, he said, in order to avoid a larger confrontation with the Soviet Union. As tensions rose in the region, Israel had begged for U.S. arms and assistance, claiming to be the underdog. But CIA intelligence contradicted this claim, indicating Israel would quickly win a war wiwth Arab states without U.S. assistance.
According to University of Arizona Professor Charles Smith, the Johnson administration was well aware that Israel fired the war's first shots. Egypt had been about to send a delegation to Washington, DC to make peace -- but Israel wanted U.S. sympathy, as well as Arab territory. Had the Egyptian delegation met with U.S. officials, Israel would have had no justification to attack.
+++++++++++++++++++++
Johnson's administration, Smith explained, believed that once Israel had conquered Arab territory, the Jewish state would be able to negotiate a lasting peace settlement from a position of strength.
Dr. David Hatch, technical director at the Center for Cryptologic History, began his remarks on the LIBERTY controversy by saying, "The good news is that information long sought by researchers is now out -- and the bad news is that it does not set- tle it." For three and a half decades the NSA withheld transcripts from an intercept of Israeli helicopter pilots speaking with air controllers and puzzling over the identity of the LIBERTY -- because, Hatch said, they didn't know it was important. The pilots were told to identify the ship, and take any English- speaking survivors to one place and Egyptians to another.
Next to speak was Judge A. Jay Cristol, whose recent book, THE LIBERTY INCIDENT: THE 1967 ATTACK ON THE U.S. NAVY SPY SHIP, was described by one retired government official in the audience as a "brief for a guilty client: Israel." Cristol asked the audience to applaud two LIBERTY survivors in the audience, his "friends" Joe Lentini and Phil Tourney. (In the all-too-brief 15 minutes allotted for questions, the survivors denied being Cristol's friends.) Cristol spent his 15 minutes of fame listing real or imagined fans of his book.
Eventually the bankruptcy court judge turned to Admiral Isaac C. Kidd's Naval Court of Inquiry, which concluded that Israel's attack on the LIBERTY was a mistake. Cristol acknowledged the recent declaration by Captain Ward Boston, the former U.S. Navy attorney who helped Kidd investigate the attack. This document was submitted to State Department panel organizers, but had not been mentioned until that point. Alison Weir, founder of If Americans Knew, passed out copies of the declaration to members of the audience.
Boston states that, despite overwhelming evidence to the con- trary, he and the admiral had been ordered to make a false report and say the attack was an accident. Cristol lambasted Boston both for breakikng his oath to tell the truth in court and for dishonoring the name of Admiral Kidd, who was another of Cris- tol's "friends," as evidenced by a signed photo hanging in the judge's office. The case on the LIBERTY should be closed, Cristol argued, because every investigation has concluded the attack was an accident.
Like a breath of fresh air, investigative journalist James Bamford took his turn at the podium. He gave a concise account of the "planned and deliberate" attack on the LIBERTY and the subsequent cover-up, comparing it to Iran-Contra and other scandals Bamford has investigated over the years. "I wouldn't be in business if the government didn't cover things up," he said.
He expressed indignation that two of the panelists selected by the U.S. State Department represented Israel, while no one was there to represent American LIBERTY survivors.
Scoffing at claims that Israelis believed the ship was an Egyptian horse carrier, Bamford cited a TV interview with the Israeli who was tasked to identify the ship in JANE'S FIGHTING SHIP manual. He then proceeded to read the hard-hitting Boston declaration.
Israel intentionally tried to sink the LIBERTY, Bamford argued, to cover up the massacre of Egyptian prisoners of war in the Sinai. President Johnson's administration then hid the facts to avoid harming ties with Israel.
Bamford, whose book BODY OF SECRETS includes a chapter on the LIBERTY, charged that there never has been an independent investigation of the attack -- in sharp contrast to painstaking, if in- conclusive, investigations after attacks on the USS COLE, U.S. embassies, or the Khobar Towers. Israel investigated the attack, Bamford acknowledged, but said that was like asking Enron to investigate itself. He concluded by calling for a full investigation of the attack on the LIBERTY while those who were there could still tell their story.
Dr. Michael Oren, author of SIX DAYS OF WAR: JUNE 1967 AND THE MAKING OF THE MODERN MIDDLE EAST, said he'd hoped his research into hundreds of pages of Israeli documents would provide the last word. Oren, who works for the Jerusalem-based Shalem Center, said he sympathized with LIBERTY survivors because he, too, had survived a tragic "friendly fire incident" when he was a paratrooper with the Israeli army. He also noted that in 1967 the U.S. endured 5,000 friendly fire incidents in Vietnam.
Oren shifted the blame for the LIBERTY "accident" directly onto the shoulders of Washington, DC, because the U.S. government didn't know the ship was still in the area. The National Security agancy should have notified Israel that its spy ship was in international waters nearby, Oren charged.
Numerous Israeli overflights observed by sunbathing LIBERTY survivors prior to theattack were made by Israeli cargo planes, not surveillance planes, Oren claimed, and therefore Israel had no reports that the ship was in the area. According to Oren, no Israeli planes had noted the ship's American flag or the huge Latin -- not Arabic -- letters on the hull.
The Israeli author -- who sounds like he was born and bred in this country -- then stretched attendees' credulity by saying the marker noting the LIBERTY as a friendly vessel had inexplicably been removed from the Israeli war board. Oren claimed that Israeli fighters were so exhausted by the war they may have committed unfortunate errors, but the they certainly weren't crim- inally negligent.
Oren characterized Americans who still believe the attack on the LIBERTY was intentional as belonging to anti-Israel hate groups or as religious extremists. It would be impossible to hush up evidence of Israeli wrongdoing, he claimed, due to the "porousness of Israeli society."
Oren, too, called for an independent investigation -- although he promised nothing new will turn up. The U.S. would have to answer to why a lightly armed U.S. spy ship was sent into a war zone, he warned.
Dr. Smith summarized the common ground, disagreements and flaws in panelists' interpretation of historical documents. There is still evidence, he suggested, that the government is reluctant to reveal.
Newspaper accounts of the conference concluded that Israel and the U.S. share the blame for Israel's attack on the LIBERTY.
Although the conference was broadcast live on C-SPAN 2, most mainstream media reports did not include the very moving comments and questions posed by LIBERTY survivors in the audience. Joe Lentini said he was appalled to hear "gentlement who were in diapers in 1967" justify what happened to his shipmates. When panel moderator Susser asked Joseph Lentini to ask one question instead of making a comment, Lentini responded there were so many half-truths and misstatements spoken at the conference, he didn't know which question to ask first.
Josie Toth Linen, whose brother Stephen was killed as he tried to identify the marking on the attacking planes, said she had questions about how Israelis knew which frequencies to jam if they didn't know the ship was American. She wondered who recalled the planes sent from the 6th Fleet to help the ship. She asked about the think tank that financed Oren's book... until an irate Susser abruptly cut her questions short and brought the session to a close.
The moderator's treatment of survivors bordered on abusive, according to former Congressman Paul Findley, who watched the session from his home in Illinois. Frustrated audience members shouted, "Let's hear from another survivor [referring to USS LIBERTY Survivor Association President Phil Tourney, who was waiting to speak], one more survivor! Two Israelis and one survivor ... one more survivor has the right to talk."
Others angrily accused the State Department of helping cover up Israel's actions. Few of those in the long line at the mic- rophone had the opportunity to pose their questions in the 15 minutes allotted.
As attendees filed out, journalists swarmed around survivors and their supporters, who finally were given the chance to speak -- even if not by representatives of their own government. A young man wearing a YARMULKE was heard to comment, "I can't believe people are still so upset after all these years!"
While LIBERTY survivors and their supporters were prepared and eager to present their evidence and eyewitness accounts of the Israeli attack on a lightly armed American intelligence ship, they instead were witness to a cover-up in action by the U.S. State Department.
Americans who had the chance to watch the hearing might wonder why their government is afraid to release every document in its possession, no matter how damaging, and hold a congressional investigation in order to set the historica record straight -- once and for all.
Note: The Washington Report on Middle East Affairs is one of the few magazines in the world that supports the Liberty survivors and where you can get the truth about the Middle East. It supports the UN resolutions and traditional American support for human rights, self-determination, and fair play. If you've never seen this magazine, call 1-800-368-5788. They'll send you a free sample copy, and hope to welcome you as a subscriber.
WAR CRIMES REPORT FILED BY USS LIBERTY SURVIVORS USS
HTML Version of War Crimes Report
The USS Liberty Veterans Association has filed a formal Report with the Department of Defense of War Crimes Committed Against U.S. Military Personnel on June 8, 1967, by elements of the Israeli military forces.
The United States is obligated by law and by international treaty to investigate all reports of war crimes by or against United States Forces. This report obligates such an investigation. We are still waiting patiently for a reply.
A Report: War Crimes Committed Against U.S. Military Personnel, June 8, 1967 Submitted to the Secretary of the Army in his capacity as Executive Agent for the Secretary of Defense, June 8, 2005.
...
In 2003, an independent commission of highly regarded experts was created to look into the matter. The Commission consisted of Admiral Thomas H. Moorer, United States Navy (Ret.), Former Chairman, Joint Chiefs of Staff; General Raymond G. Davis, United States Marine Corps, (MOH), Former Assistant Commandant of The Marine Corps; Rear Admiral Merlin Staring, United States Navy (Ret.), Former Judge Advocate General Of The Navy; and Ambassador James Akins (Ret.), Former United States Ambassador to Saudi Arabia.
The "Moorer Commission" (Chaired by Adm. Moorer) investigated the attack and made the following findings:
"We, the undersigned, having undertaken an independent investigation of Israel's attack on USS Liberty, including eyewitness testimony from surviving crewmembers, a review of naval and other official records, an examination of official statements by the Israeli and American governments, a study of the conclusions of all previous official inquiries, and a consideration of important new evidence and recent statements from individuals having direct knowledge of the attack or the cover up, hereby find the following:
That on June 8, 1967, after eight hours of aerial surveillance, Israel launched a two-hour air and naval attack against USS Liberty, the world's most sophisticated intelligence ship, inflicting 34 dead and 173 wounded American servicemen (a casualty rate of seventy percent, in a crew of 294);
That the Israeli air attack lasted approximately 25 minutes, during which time unmarked Israeli aircraft dropped napalm canisters on USS Liberty's bridge, and fired 30mm cannons and rockets into our ship, causing 821 holes, more than 100 of which were rocket-size; survivors estimate 30 or more sorties were flown over the ship by a minimum of 12 attacking Israeli planes which were jamming all five American emergency radio channels;
That the torpedo boat attack involved not only the firing of torpedoes, but the machine-gunning of Liberty's firefighters and stretcher-bearers as they struggled to save their ship and crew; the Israeli torpedo boats later returned to machine-gun at close range three of the Liberty's life rafts that had been lowered into the water by survivors to rescue the most seriously wounded;
That there is compelling evidence that Israel's attack was a deliberate attempt to destroy an American ship and kill her entire crew; evidence of such intent is supported by statements from Secretary of State Dean Rusk, Undersecretary of State George Ball, former CIA director Richard Helms, former NSA directors Lieutenant General William Odom, USA (Ret.), Admiral Bobby Ray Inman, USN (Ret.), and Marshal Carter; former NSA deputy directors Oliver Kirby and Major General John Morrison, USAF (Ret.); and former Ambassador Dwight Porter, U.S. Ambassador to Lebanon in 1967;
That in attacking USS Liberty, Israel committed acts of murder against American servicemen and an act of war against the United States;
That fearing conflict with Israel, the White House deliberately prevented the U.S. Navy from coming to the defense of USS Liberty by recalling Sixth Fleet military rescue support while the ship was under attack; evidence of the recall of rescue aircraft is supported by statements of Captain Joe Tully, Commanding Officer of the aircraft carrier USS Saratoga, and Rear Admiral Lawrence Geis, the Sixth Fleet carrier division commander, at the time of the attack; never before in American naval history has a rescue mission been cancelled when an American ship was under attack;
That although Liberty was saved from almost certain destruction through the heroic efforts of the ship's Captain, William L. McGonagle (MOH), and his brave crew, surviving crewmembers were later threatened with "court-martial, imprisonment or worse" if they exposed the truth; and were abandoned by their own government;
That due to the influence of Israel's powerful supporters in the United States, the White House deliberately covered up the facts of this attack from the American people;
That due to continuing pressure by the pro-Israel lobby in the United States, this attack remains the only serious naval incident that has never been thoroughly investigated by Congress; to this day, no surviving crewmember has been permitted to officially and publicly testify about the attack;
That there has been an official cover-up without precedent in American naval history; the existence of such a cover-up is now supported by statements of Rear Admiral Merlin Staring, USN (Ret.), former Judge Advocate General of the Navy; and Captain Ward Boston, USN, (Ret.), the chief counsel to the Navy's 1967 Court of Inquiry of Liberty attack;
That the truth about Israel's attack and subsequent White House cover-up continues to be officially concealed from the American people to the present day and is a national disgrace;
That a danger to our national security exists whenever our elected officials are willing to subordinate American interests to those of any foreign nation, and specifically are unwilling to challenge Israel's interests when they conflict with American interests; this policy, evidenced by the failure to defend USS Liberty and the subsequent official cover-up of the Israeli attack, endangers the safety of Americans and the security of the United States.
How many other nations can you think of who would carry out an act of war against the US and not recieve a response (which would be the end of that nation btw)? AIPAC, those little Zionist pricks, have absolutely no influence in the US right? :rolleyes:
Dopey
you guys crack me up
read a few more sources on that incident that are not from:
a. the ship that got attacked
b. arabs
shaolin_Z
quote:
Originally posted by Dopey
you guys crack me up
read a few more sources on that incident that are not from:
a. the ship that got attacked
b. arabs
LOL, Arabs? Hahahahaha! I didn't know Moore Commission had a bunch of Arabs on it :rolleyes: :haha: :haha: :haha: ! Oh yeah, the Moore Commission was an independent commission, maybe you missed that part too LOL.
Dopey
quote:
Originally posted by shaolin_Z
LOL, Arabs? Hahahahaha! I didn't know Moore Commission had a bunch of Arabs on it :rolleyes: :haha: :haha: :haha: ! Oh yeah, the Moore Commission was an independent commission, maybe you missed that part too LOL.
yes arabs, show me some sources that have no agenda, no personal involvement...
