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Palestinian-Israeli Conflict Thread (pg. 12)
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| Fir3start3r |
| quote: | Originally posted by PETRAN
Very well said mate! Apparently i'm shocked with the "pseudo-logical" responses of these people who, in order to pass their view, they claim extremely ridiculous analogies and arguments such as the guy before who said one of the most disturbing and utterly stupid arguments which went like:
"Oh, if someone came and built a villa near your poor house wouldn't you be jealous?"(!?!)
WTF! What kind of bloody capitalist-western faulse-as-hell analogy do you bring to the current situation? Do you think that these people think like you do? Do you think that most of these people seat at their homes in front of the 20" monitors surfing in various random internet sites, alternating between "trance forums" and "child-porn" like you do? Is this a fault simplified version of what (unfortunately) seems to be an "argument"? Can you, even for a while (2 secs) take another perspective for a while seriously now? And i don't mean to close your eyes and think where could you buy hard-drives and the new nokia mobile if you lived in Palestine. I ask you to really de-individualise yourself, drop all your values, attitudes and beliefs for a while and think, how would it have been if you were a small poor child who sees its parents get violently killed by some people that you've never seen before?No villas, no bloody poor houses, not jealousy. Just watching deaths. The same goes to israel and to suicide bombings.You would be outraged and blindly angry . And since it seems that there are gaps in your religion (it seems most religions)which allow you to express your anger since most religions postulate and pre-determine the right and wrong- a kind of universal justice-and since this justice was broken by some enemy of yours, religion could justify your anger and even allow you to freely express it.
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While tragic, the question remains, what exactly ARE the 'Palestinians' doing about it to help themselves?
The question is rhetorical of course because the answer is so plain unless someone can actually give a coherent, logical explanation.
Sorry if the house analogy isn't to your liking but honestly, what relevance is it if it's right-wing, left-wing, socialist, etc?
It's an analogy; that's it.
It's a realistic situation and happens all the time.
I still haven't read WHY it's so wrong though (other than some political hogwash) so I'm guessing I must be pretty close to the mark otherwise.
Are we denying such a thing happens?
Why wouldn't this apply?
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People seem not being able to understand the complexity of the situation. They like to pseudo-logicaly deduce their ideas,and state simplified phrases such as "Israel-Westernised-Good", "Arabs-Fanatic-Bad". Do you really think that this is the case? Has anyone ever thought that this kind of religious extremism could be the result of the continuous supression that these people continuously receive? I believe that there is a mechanism that when a culture/social system is found under severe strain (of any sorts), it would tend to return to its more traditional views and values, such as the strengthening of religion and the overall increase of the "moral codes". It is not islam that makes these people to desperately go and sacrifice themselves by bombing innocent poor civilians. It is rather the desperation of human that makes him/her to go extreme by means of his/her religion. I can easily think of an imaginary scenario, where a severely supressed USA (in which frequent attacks by some imaginary attacker would be the norm)could be rulled by a kind of an extreme evangelist party that in turn would preach about the return to "the moral values", about how everyone should stick together and have a strong belief to the "one and only god",about how science is evil ,about how the people that don't believe to the "one and true" god are evil, and on how the "enemies" of the state should be destroyed once and for-all with the help of sweet lord jesus christ. Do you find it "extreme" and "impossible"? It unfortunately wouldn't be and it seems that this crazy retarted cowboy who rules the nation seems to allready phrase similar "godly" statements...
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Again, no one is denying that the situation isn't complex.
But complex problems are solved by breaking them down into their simplest forms and going through things, one step at a time.
There's no 'good vs. evil' or 'West vs. East' or whatever it is you're trying to say or deduce.
It's about what's going on NOW.
What's being done NOW.
You don't go forward by looking backward and it's about using the past's experience to write the future.
There's lots of whining and gnashing of teeth but no solutions coming from one side in particular; am I wrong? Prove it.
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Its an endless cycle, the whole system flows reciprocally in both dimensions. Blood brings more blood and nothing else. It is THAT simple. I honestly can't see how is this difficult to understand. I am terrified though when i see people state "logical" arguments that seem to certify the killings of innocent humans. "HUMANS" that is! Not Arabs. Not Israelis. HUMANS. |
No one is condoning the killing of ANYONE here sorry. |
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| Yoepus |
| quote: | Originally posted by Magnetonium
There's really no point arguing you. You can live in your little world. Reality speaks louder than your words of blame on the enemy. What fascinated me the most, is that you think that Israel is innocent of any wrongdoing or mistakes, errors it did to Arabs throughout its existence, which blemishes your view. You ignore the crimes of Israelis, and for that you have little credibility because you have no sense of guilt, remorse or understanding for Arab suffering at the hands of Israel. Any decent person will see your warped view of the world as selfish and people will not believe you. You are the kind that people become anti-semitic from, videos pictures and articles dont lie when you see Israel shedding blood of innocent Palestinians. There's a reason for the ever-strong anti-semitism around the world, and it will not subside anytime soon because of people like you.
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No, obviously you misunderstand me.
I do not ignore the crimes of Israel, it is no saint, but there are never saints in war. That is to be expected. I am very content that Israel has a free press that exposes the wrong doing and that its population of liberal-thinking citizens will not let Israel cross many moral barriers and always attempt to correct the right and fight for justice.
The thing that gets me, is that yes, Israel has committed atrocities but they pale in comparison to real atrocities.
Yes, Israel has put checkpoints and conducts military operations in heavily dense areas which as a result has made life very difficult for Palestinians. But you know what, this is much better than the atrocities that were committed in your Chechnya, or that today are being committed in Somalia (up until several weeks ago), Darfur, Iraq, Iran, Russia, and China, to name a few.
Israel could have very easily, done with the Palestinians as the Russians did with the Tartars, making it very easy for the problem to have been eradicated 50 years ago, and we would not be complaining about how horribly the Palestinians have it because there would simply be no Palestinians.
And that is my primary beef with the whole issue, yes there is a lot to complain about, but put it into context, at least the Palestinians are alive to complain about it. Had the situation been reversed and Palestinians were the stronger power, there would be no Israelis to complain about it. |
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| LazFX |
| quote: | Originally posted by Capitalizt
Oh boy shaolin, did I hit a nerve?
There are many reasons to oppose Israel. I just revealed the one that dominates all others in your subconscious. A little truth can be painful eh? |
anyone, and it could be GOD her self, that doesn't agree with him gets called an ignorant/racist/stupid/ and so forth. I like how he has in his sig that little thing about ignorance, but its people like him and the some others here that don't see both sides of the issue, especially when it comes to the middle east. They sit here in the luxery of the US/Canada/UK and denounce every thing the West does..
Its like breast feeding from your mother then calling her a whore, all at the same time....
but what the hell do I know, I am a man 30+ that has the education of a sophmore in high school.
Example: I support the Palastinians in the Middle east, I do not accept the War in Iraq, The whole Iran situation is stupid and the US should stop putting its nose where it is not wanted. But I make a simple comment on how I am sick and tired of seeing posts about, "BOO HOO HOO, I AM AN ARAB or MUSLIM and PEOPLE are making fun of me" how instead of complaining about it, do something about it. Stand up for yourself and your race,,, but I get the shaft from him and his little Get Along Gang of like minded children. ;)
Oh well thats why there is an ignore button
:rolleyes: |
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| Q5echo |
| quote: | Originally posted by LazFX
Its like breast feeding from your mother then calling her a whore, all at the same time.... |
ahh those were the days, huh?
man i wish i could re-live 8th grade all over again!;) |
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| LazFX |
| quote: | Originally posted by Q5echo
ahh those were the days, huh?
man i wish i could re-live 8th grade all over again!;) |
ummmmmmm, :D
mothers milk, especially if she is not actually your mother. lol |
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| Q5echo |
| quote: | Originally posted by LazFX
ummmmmmm, :D
mothers milk, especially if she is not actually your mother. lol |
yeah, i don't know what the big deal is
seriously i've tasted breast milk (other than my mom's)
wasn't bad...it was warm. any milk served warm is not the ideal approach, but it comes from a boobie...and i like boobies.:D |
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| LazFX |
| quote: | Originally posted by Q5echo
yeah, i don't know what the big deal is
seriously i've tasted breast milk (other than my mom's)
wasn't bad...it was warm. any milk served warm is not the ideal approach, but it comes from a boobie...and i like boobies.:D |
Ha ha ha , when my ex gave birth to my son, she went from a size 36b to 36d like over night. I use to stare at her all the time, he he untill she shot me in the eye with the left nipple, ha ha ha it was warm, tasted a little interesting, but nah, I will just take my milk from the cartons.. ;) |
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| shaolin_Z |
| LOL, that's a bit off topic. |
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| shaolin_Z |
| quote: | Originally posted by LazFX
anyone, and it could be GOD her self, that doesn't agree with him gets called an ignorant/racist/stupid/ and so forth. I like how he has in his sig that little thing about ignorance, but its people like him and the some others here that don't see both sides of the issue, especially when it comes to the middle east. They sit here in the luxery of the US/Canada/UK and denounce every thing the West does..
Its like breast feeding from your mother then calling her a whore, all at the same time....
but what the hell do I know, I am a man 30+ that has the education of a sophmore in high school.
Example: I support the Palastinians in the Middle east, I do not accept the War in Iraq, The whole Iran situation is stupid and the US should stop putting its nose where it is not wanted. But I make a simple comment on how I am sick and tired of seeing posts about, "BOO HOO HOO, I AM AN ARAB or MUSLIM and PEOPLE are making fun of me" how instead of complaining about it, do something about it. Stand up for yourself and your race,,, but I get the shaft from him and his little Get Along Gang of like minded children. ;) |
That has so much to do with the topid doesn't it? Why do some of you post here really? If you want to rant like that, there's always the COR. Care arguing the topic at hand for a change? Hmmm... what did Lira say about ad hominems...
| quote: | Originally posted by LazFX
Oh well thats why there is an ignore button
:rolleyes: |
Yeah, it's also a great way to avoid an argument LOL. |
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| LazFX |
| quote: | Originally posted by shaolin_Z
Hmmm... what did Lira say about ad hominems...
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When you resort to calling someone ignorant, stupid or deluded you are guilty of ad hominems....
check your text book on that one there bud, on what it means,
An ad hominem fallacy consists of asserting that someone's argument is wrong ...
Ad hominem can be abusive (also called argumentum ad personam) usually and most of all abusive about one's point of view.
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Yeah, it's also a great way to avoid an argument LOL. |
Simply, yeah.
and I apologize for taking this thread off topic. |
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| shaolin_Z |
| Dude, seriously, this is getting old. |
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