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Palestinian-Israeli Conflict Thread (pg. 7)
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| shaolin_Z |
| quote: | Originally posted by Subey
Lucky for me the example is meant to be related to in spirit :D |
Haha :p. |
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| Q5echo |
| quote: | Originally posted by Magnetonium
Um, they live there, they were there first. |
wrong. >link<
| quote: | | There is a huge number of Palestinians living in Syria, Turkey, Jordan, Egypt, Saudi Arabia, USA, Europe, and other countries, while countries like Syria, Lebanon and Jordan still have massive Palestinian refugee camps, also within Israel. These Arab states cannot accomodate all these people, they have their own problems to settle. |
there are more Palestinians living in Israel today than all of those countries you've listed COMBINED. >LINK<
so again, you are wrong.
| quote: | | The only reason its so prosperous is because its subsidized by USA and Jewish interests around the world. |
"Israel has a technologically advanced market economy with substantial, though diminishing, government participation. It depends on imports of crude oil, grains, raw materials, and military equipment. Despite limited natural resources, Israel has intensively developed its agricultural and industrial sectors over the past 20 years. Israel imports substantial quantities of grain, but is largely self-sufficient in other agricultural products. Cut diamonds, high-technology equipment, and agricultural products (fruits and vegetables) are the leading exports. Israel usually posts sizable trade deficits, which are covered by large transfer payments from abroad and by foreign loans. Roughly half of the government's external debt is owed to the US, which is its major source of economic and military aid. The bitter Israeli-Palestinian conflict; difficulties in the high-technology, construction, and tourist sectors; and fiscal austerity in the face of growing inflation led to small declines in GDP in 2001 and 2002. The economy rebounded in 2003-05, growing at a 4% rate each year, as the government tightened fiscal policy and implemented structural reforms to boost competition and efficiency in the markets. The conflict with Lebanon in summer 2006 dampened slightly GDP growth estimates for the year, but continuing strong foreign investment, tax revenue, and private consumption levels helped the economy recover quickly."
GDP (purchasing power parity):
$166.3 billion (2006 est.) <------YOU CAN'T SUBSIDIZE THAT.
GDP (official exchange rate):
$121.6 billion (2006 est.)
GDP - real growth rate:
4.8% (2006 est.)
GDP - per capita (PPP):
$26,200 (2006 est.)
GDP - composition by sector:
agriculture: 2.6%
industry: 30.8%
services: 66.6% (2006 est.)
Labor force:
2.6 million (2006 est.)
Labor force - by occupation:
agriculture, forestry, and fishing 1.8%, manufacturing 1.8%, construction 5.3%, wholesale and retail trade 15.7%, transport, storage, and communications 6.3%, finance and business 5.3%, personal and other services 11.5%, public services 28.6% (1996)
Unemployment rate:
8.5% (2006 est.)
Population below poverty line:
22.6% (2005)
so again you are wrong.
| quote: | | Does Syria, Lebanon, Egypt, Jordan have massive oil deposits? |
they don't need it. well i should say they get by without it without getting too technical. except Syria but Syria is a hopeless hole. we give Egypt over $2 billion in subsidies every year. thats more than Israel minus our weapons.
| quote: | | Saudi Arabia does, and they live well, well under a dictatorship sanctioned by guess who - USA. |
wrong.
| quote: | | Lybia is the only country in the region that hasnt been butt focked by USA and who had substantial oil supplies |
WRONG! we bombed the living out of them in 1986, and rightly so, it had nothing to do with oil. |
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| Subey |
| quote: | Originally posted by shaolin_Z
Haha :p. |
"sod monday, I worked all weekend, work can jam it up their bum"
See how she lured me into a trap with the "work can jam it up their bum" phrasing. I cry foul! Judges, judges! |
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| shaolin_Z |
| quote: | Originally posted by Subey
"sod monday, I worked all weekend, work can jam it up their bum"
See how she lured me into a trap with the "work can jam it up their bum" phrasing. I cry foul! Judges, judges! |
Hehe :). So I'm curious, I've always been under the impression that you're from the SF Bay Area. But I'm guessing that's probably just an unfounded assumption on my part :p. |
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| Magnetonium |
Apart from you using the word WRONG so much, you are WRONG in your claims since you failed to check before posting. I picked out the first thing that you linked that you claimed made me wrong, so I would like you to re-read your links:
| quote: | Originally posted by Q5echo
wrong. >link<
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You have to get more technical with regards to Palestinians NOT having rights to the lands they've lived on for hundreds of years. The link you gave me to Palestine only proves my point.
| quote: |
there are more Palestinians living in Israel today than all of those countries you've listed COMBINED. >LINK<
so again, you are wrong. |
Here's an image courtesy of Wikipedia to freshen up your memory, cause thats what I am talking about :
| quote: |
"Israel has a technologically advanced market economy with substantial, though diminishing, government participation. It depends on imports of crude oil, grains, raw materials, and military equipment. Despite limited natural resources, Israel has intensively developed its agricultural and industrial sectors over the past 20 years. Israel imports substantial quantities of grain, but is largely self-sufficient in other agricultural products. Cut diamonds, high-technology equipment, and agricultural products (fruits and vegetables) are the leading exports. Israel usually posts sizable trade deficits, which are covered by large transfer payments from abroad and by foreign loans. Roughly half of the government's external debt is owed to the US, which is its major source of economic and military aid. The bitter Israeli-Palestinian conflict; difficulties in the high-technology, construction, and tourist sectors; and fiscal austerity in the face of growing inflation led to small declines in GDP in 2001 and 2002. The economy rebounded in 2003-05, growing at a 4% rate each year, as the government tightened fiscal policy and implemented structural reforms to boost competition and efficiency in the markets. The conflict with Lebanon in summer 2006 dampened slightly GDP growth estimates for the year, but continuing strong foreign investment, tax revenue, and private consumption levels helped the economy recover quickly."
GDP (purchasing power parity):
$166.3 billion (2006 est.) <------YOU CAN'T SUBSIDIZE THAT.
GDP (official exchange rate):
$121.6 billion (2006 est.)
GDP - real growth rate:
4.8% (2006 est.)
GDP - per capita (PPP):
$26,200 (2006 est.)
GDP - composition by sector:
agriculture: 2.6%
industry: 30.8%
services: 66.6% (2006 est.)
Labor force:
2.6 million (2006 est.)
Labor force - by occupation:
agriculture, forestry, and fishing 1.8%, manufacturing 1.8%, construction 5.3%, wholesale and retail trade 15.7%, transport, storage, and communications 6.3%, finance and business 5.3%, personal and other services 11.5%, public services 28.6% (1996)
Unemployment rate:
8.5% (2006 est.)
Population below poverty line:
22.6% (2005)
so again you are wrong.
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So what, Saudi Arabia, Egypt have higher GDP. But Israel has a much smaller population. Just like China is a very rich country, but because of its sheer massive population, its poor. So is here, by per capita statistics, Israelis live better than Saudis, as wrong as that seems. And I dont understand why you again used WRONG to this quote from me, please explain:
"Saudi Arabia does, and they live well, well under a dictatorship sanctioned by guess who - USA."
You think Israel will do fine if USA and other Israeli allies cut the funding of Israel (free money)? You will have to admit, that USA/UK pplayed a vital role in the region, massively funding, arming and supporting Israel - without their never-ending support Israel today would not exist.
| quote: |
WRONG! we bombed the living out of them in 1986, and rightly so, it had nothing to do with oil. |
You are getting really annoying here, and you really are pulling this out of your ass, arent ya? That happened 20 years ago, and in 20 years, things can change very much. Have you seen Lybia's foreign policy lately? LOL
"The Libyan economy depends primarily upon revenues from the oil sector, which constitute practically all export earnings and about one-quarter of gross domestic product (GDP). These oil revenues and a small population give Libya one of the highest GDPs per person in Africa and have allowed the Libyan state to provide an extensive and impressive level of social security, particularly in the fields of housing and education.[38]
Compared to its neighbours, Libya enjoys an extremely low level of both absolute and relative poverty. Libyan officials in the past three years have made progress on economic reforms as part of a broader campaign to reintegrate the country into the international fold.[39] This effort picked up steam after UN sanctions were lifted in September 2003, and as Libya announced in December 2003 that it would abandon programs to build weapons of mass destruction.[40]
Libya has begun some market-oriented reforms. Initial steps have included applying for membership of the World Trade Organisation, reducing subsidies, and announcing plans for privatisation.[41] The non-oil manufacturing and construction sectors, which account for about 20% of GDP, have expanded from processing mostly agricultural products to include the production of petrochemicals, iron, steel and aluminium. Climatic conditions and poor soils severely limit agricultural output, and Libya imports about 75% of its food.[39] Water is also a problem, with some 28% of the population not having access to safe drinking water in 2000.[42]
Under the previous Prime Minister, Shukri Ghanem, and current prime minister Baghdadi Mahmudi, Libya is undergoing a business boom. Many government-run industries are being privatised. Most US sanctions have been lifted; and as of May 2006, the remaining vestiges are scheduled for removal pending US Congressional approval. Many international oil companies have returned to the country, including oil giants Shell and ExxonMobil.[43] Tourism is on the rise, bringing increased demand for hotel accommodation and for capacity at airports such as Tripoli International. A multi-million dollar renovation of Libyan airports has recently been approved by the government to help meet such demands.[44] At present 300,000 people visit the country annually; the Libyan government hopes to increase this figure to an ambitious 10,000,000 by 2015.[45]"
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lybia
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| Cyrus King |
| THE ISRAELI DEATH FORCES |
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| Subey |
| quote: | Originally posted by shaolin_Z
Hehe :). So I'm curious, I've always been under the impression that you're from the SF Bay Area. But I'm guessing that's probably just an unfounded assumption on my part :p. |
Because SF are my first two initials? or you figured my obituary will involve a leap and the Golden Gate Bridge? :D
I've never been to the western part of the continent. I live in the shadow of the Peace Tower. |
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| Q5echo |
| quote: | Originally posted by Magnetonium
You have to get more technical with regards to Palestinians NOT having rights to the lands they've lived on for hundreds of years. The link you gave me to Palestine only proves my point. |
oh now it's just "hundreds of years" as opposed to your moronic assertion of "they were there first" a few minutes ago.:rolleyes:
way to prove my point again.
| quote: | Here's an image courtesy of Wikipedia to freshen up your memory, cause thats what I am talking about :
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do you still stand by this then? "These Arab states cannot accomodate all these people"
Israel's economy is their own. far from what you assert that "The only reason its so prosperous is because its subsidized by USA and Jewish interests around the world" which is absurd.
thats just anti-Israel talking points and you have no idea how to substatiate it, do you?
what i posted is all you really need to know that, in fact, it does exist and prospers at 5% growth rate.
| quote: | "Saudi Arabia does, and they live well, well under a dictatorship sanctioned by guess who - USA."
You think Israel will do fine if USA and other Israeli allies cut the funding of Israel (free money)? You will have to admit, that USA/UK pplayed a vital role in the region, massively funding, arming and supporting Israel - without their never-ending support Israel today would not exist. |
your not making any sense. what does that have to do with your assertion "Saudi Arabia is a sanctioned dictatorship by the US"?
| quote: | | That happened 20 years ago, and in 20 years, things can change very much. |
i agree. things have changed in Lybia (so far on the surface. you always have to be wary) i would argue as a direct result of Western anti-terror doctrine and vigilance, beginning with the strikes in 1986 followed by the PanAm/Lockerbie bombing investigation concluded by the current Bush Doctrine. again, oil had nothing to do with this. it was exported terrorism 20 years before the "war on terror"
| quote: | Have you seen Lybia's foreign policy lately?
"The Libyan economy depends primarily upon revenues from the oil sector, which constitute practically all export earnings and about one-quarter of gross domestic product (GDP). These oil revenues and a small population give Libya one of the highest GDPs per person in Africa and have allowed the Libyan state to provide an extensive and impressive level of social security, particularly in the fields of housing and education.[38]
Compared to its neighbours, Libya enjoys an extremely low level of both absolute and relative poverty. Libyan officials in the past three years have made progress on economic reforms as part of a broader campaign to reintegrate the country into the international fold.[39] This effort picked up steam after UN sanctions were lifted in September 2003, and as Libya announced in December 2003 that it would abandon programs to build weapons of mass destruction.[40]
Libya has begun some market-oriented reforms. Initial steps have included applying for membership of the World Trade Organisation, reducing subsidies, and announcing plans for privatisation.[41] The non-oil manufacturing and construction sectors, which account for about 20% of GDP, have expanded from processing mostly agricultural products to include the production of petrochemicals, iron, steel and aluminium. Climatic conditions and poor soils severely limit agricultural output, and Libya imports about 75% of its food.[39] Water is also a problem, with some 28% of the population not having access to safe drinking water in 2000.[42]
Under the previous Prime Minister, Shukri Ghanem, and current prime minister Baghdadi Mahmudi, Libya is undergoing a business boom. Many government-run industries are being privatised. Most US sanctions have been lifted; and as of May 2006, the remaining vestiges are scheduled for removal pending US Congressional approval. Many international oil companies have returned to the country, including oil giants Shell and ExxonMobil.[43] Tourism is on the rise, bringing increased demand for hotel accommodation and for capacity at airports such as Tripoli International. A multi-million dollar renovation of Libyan airports has recently been approved by the government to help meet such demands.[44] At present 300,000 people visit the country annually; the Libyan government hopes to increase this figure to an ambitious 10,000,000 by 2015.[45]"
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lybia
[/COLOR] |
what does this have to do with your absurd assertion "Lybia is the only country in the region that hasnt been butt focked by USA and who had substantial oil supplies"? |
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| Magnetonium |
| quote: | Originally posted by Q5echo
oh now it's just "hundreds of years" as opposed to your moronic assertion of "they were there first" a few minutes ago.:rolleyes:
way to prove my point again.
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LOL, I said these Palestinians and their ancestors WERE THERE FIRST before most Jewish immigration and subsequent forced removal. How hard is that to understand for you? You know, there were over 700,000 Palestinians for a millionth time forcefully removed from their own lands.
| quote: |
do you still stand by this then? "These Arab states cannot accomodate all these people"
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Yeah, forget that Israel is at fault here, let Arab nations solve all the Palestinian peoples problems.
| quote: |
Israel's economy is their own. far from what you assert that "The only reason its so prosperous is because its subsidized by USA and Jewish interests around the world" which is absurd.
thats just anti-Israel talking points and you have no idea how to substatiate it, do you?
what i posted is all you really need to know that, in fact, it does exist and prospers at 5% growth rate. |
This thread is not about the Israeli economy. But to make you happy, I'll agree with your Israeli prosperity clause and them being sovereign. However, this would have never happened without the neverending USA/UK support and funding/arming of Israel.
| quote: |
your not making any sense. what does that have to do with your assertion "Saudi Arabia is a sanctioned dictatorship by the US"?
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Quite simple. Human rights violations are common in Saudi Arabia, and this country is USA's ally. There's no democracy there either.
| quote: |
i agree. things have changed in Lybia (so far on the surface. you always have to be wary) i would argue as a direct result of Western anti-terror doctrine and vigilance, beginning with the strikes in 1986 followed by the PanAm/Lockerbie bombing investigation concluded by the current Bush Doctrine. again, oil had nothing to do with this. it was exported terrorism 20 years before the "war on terror"
what does this have to do with your absurd assertion "Lybia is the only country in the region that hasnt been butt focked by USA and who had substantial oil supplies" |
Lybia decided on a different approach. Quite frankly, USA only bombed Lybian targets in TWO cities, not the whole country, and regime didnt collapse, but over time Lybia itself decided to change its foreign policy. Noone forced it to do so, and there was no coup or pro-Western regime change that influenced it to do so.
Lybia has been bombed, but not subdued by USA.
I am not talking about oil, you're the one who brought it into this conversation by saying that these Israeli-hating Arab nations have oil and are very weak and poor. Dont you remember what you post? |
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| shaolin_Z |
| quote: | Originally posted by Lilith
Which is the crux of the problem, we don't do that and we do even less to help as a worldwide community. |
Yeah, most people don't, but that doesn't mean that everyone doesn't.
| quote: | Originally posted by Lilith
We do nothing, we're too afraid to cross over into the bad side of town. |
That's not true. There plenty of activtivism and humanitarian work Westerners engage in. Does it counteract the powers that be and their agenda? No, unfortunately the state weilds alot more power than a small minority of people who're opposed to it's policies and are actually willing to do something for change. It might sound like a trivial contribution, but it still counts for something. BTW, part of "doing something" is increasing awareness of the issue and dispelling the propaganda and myths that keep the population ignortant, confused, and apathetic.
| quote: | Originally posted by Lilith
I do nothing to help either, judging one side over another and their 'sins' would make me a complete hypocrite. |
How so? Everyone has an opinion one way or another, and there isn't much of a distinction between that and a "judgement," the sematics here being fairly irrelant. While it's true that one can't truly know what it's like with out experiencing whatever it may be for oneself, but it's not impossible to try and put yourself in someone else's shoes and have an idea what it's like. We're all human in the end, and there's a common human experience we all share. The further removed something is from one's own personal experience only means you have to try harder to understand, it certainly isn't impossible. |
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| Q5echo |
| quote: | Originally posted by Magnetonium
I am not talking about oil, you're the one who brought it into this conversation by saying that these Israeli-hating Arab nations have oil and are very weak and poor. Dont you remember what you post? |
i sincerely have no idea what you are talking about. show me. |
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| M.Johan |
| quote: | Originally posted by Fir3start3r
I wasn't referring to ALL your posts but this one in particular is irking however...
Honestly, as if someone's eyes aren't going to immediately glaze over on something like this:
...and THEN you give us guff when we haven't read it??? :stongue:
Let's be sensible... |
And wat about their life now,the same thing when was happened in 1948
Do u want a country to Palstinians with 2 s: Gaza & West Bank
And with a small link between them across The motherland..I mean Israel ..WAT A PEACE!!
| quote: | Originally posted by Fir3start3r
...and it's not ours that you expect us to watch and read pages and pages of text and hours of video, yet you tell us nothing of your own thoughts...
Are you just trying to baffle us with bullshi-t?
Rather than vomiting on the board, how about a little more of YOUR perspective and using this stuff as footnotes to support your OWN argument rather than hiding behind someone else's?
Honestly, who has time for all that?? :conf:
Essay writing 101, take what you need from the million page essay and present it so we can follow your logic.
I know I'd appreciate it more and sure others would too.
You do yourself a disservice with too much information; honestly ;) |
evastion not sagacious
So u don't care:conf: |
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