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Annoying kid at John Kerry rally gets tased. (pg. 24)
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| Halcyon+On+On |
| quote: | Originally posted by RJT
Where have I implied that everyone should stand in line, all the time, or face punishment? You haven't quoted a word from me that could even possibly indicate such a position |
Numerous times in this thread, you have said "he got what he deserved" - and it's not just you who is saying it, most of the people here are.
It proves to me that most of you people are conditioned to obey authority, merely because it is authority. Not only that, but when you see those who act against the accepted etiquette of things - which is exactly what this guy did - you applaud authority and smile smugly to yourselves, content that justice has been served. I wonder - is this psychological obedience out of fear or is it just because you were raised that way?
And before anyone jumps to those oh-so-satisfying conclusions, I do not fancy myself a rebel. I just do not understand why people almost deify other people, merely because of their uniform - in fact, uniforms represent something quite contrary to me in that respect, so I guess this is where my position stems from.
| quote: | | and beyond that, you really seem to be advocating a position where anyone can do and say whatever they feel in any given situation and not face any kind of penalty - you show me one society in the world where that's the case, and I'll videotape myself eating . |
I'm not advocating that. I'd just much sooner take the side of people who resist being shut up than the side of uniformed police with guns and tasers who represent nothing but mindless judgment based on arbitrary guidelines for proper civil conduct. I've said many times, however, that I hardly care about this guy. I don't know him, he seems like a rude nut - but he very much represents somebody who is willing to put their freedom on the line to say something to somebody of some significance. If you don't see why that is important...than I am truly sorry.
| quote: | | Furthermore, your opinion on what politics should be, and how the laws here actually work are two completely different things - so just because this whole incident upsets you a little bit doesn't mean that your position is justified by any kind of legitimate authority, so what it comes down to is the fact that you're upset a kid was handled roughly at an event where he quite literally had no rights what-so-ever. Tough . |
Right. How silly of me. "Legitimate authority" is reserved for patriots and those vicious faceless drones empowered to subdue citizens who step out of line.
| quote: | And politicians do have to answer to us all - those of us with half a brain (and who know how to act like adults) simply know the proper way to go about it. s simply looking for a reaction will always be treated as they should be; like s.
s like this kid have never changed the world, if anything - they've only served to push us in the wrong direction. I'm truly appalled that some of you out there want to make a martyr out of him. |
See, I think this is just going to have to come down to a difference of opinion.
I don't know where you get this "half a brain" stuff from, but it seems to me that somebody informed on conspiracy theories and the will to approach a Senator about it, through improper means apparently, has shown him or herself to be an individual worthy of opinion. Please, stop prescribing to me that some of us denouncing the actions of campus cops have somehow made a martyr or an icon out of this kid, because I think I have stated enough times that this is much larger than this one incident.
And everyone changes the world. Righteous people in righteous times may get more attention for it, but any of us saying that this guy is unimportant does not discredit his value to the scope of things. After all, here we are - talking about someone thousands of miles away, that none of us know, arguing over the significance of his actions and his consequences. Your "wrong direction" means nothing - nobody's does; it's a matter of inspiration and control that changes the world. Some people are more susceptible to control though, and this is the saddest aspect that this entire incident represents.
| quote: | | Edit: Yeah, Halcyon - when you feel like stepping off the soapbox and actually talking about how things work in the real world, let me know. :) |
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| Halcyon+On+On |
| quote: | Originally posted by inconspicuous
assumption h4x. |
I was being generally sarcastic, I didn't assume anything about you. |
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| inconspicuous |
| k, but then it was just irrelevant. |
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| Halcyon+On+On |
| Irreverent sarcasm is never irrelevant! |
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| inconspicuous |
unless it's unrelated...'cuz sarcasm is dependent
w/e...bse's post made me lol & yours didn't describe my thought process, so 's'all goo |
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| RJT |
1. You're making a lot, A LOT of assumptions about how I feel regarding authority (deifying authority figures because of title or uniform? You have to be kidding me.) - at the end of the day, I'm all for civil disobedience, but when it's done intelligently. This kid was the complete antithesis of intelligence. Further, your "proof" of my mindlessly obeying authority amounts to little more than yet another assumption based on the fact that I am very much glad this kid was punished in some way, shape, or form for being an ass. Have I ever said this kind of activity should be law?
2. You're still talking about the way you want things to be as opposed to the way they are.
3. Your assertion that this guy was "someone who would very much put his freedom on the line" is at the very least unwarranted - you don't know him, or his mindset - but his actions themselves seem to indicate to me he would rather cause a scene than accomplish anything.
4. "Legitimate authority" is just that, legitimate. I'm sorry you disagree or are unhappy with the powers that be in this country, but regardless of opinion on it, the will of those who can impose law will always super cede that of the average citizen. Again, point me to where one first world country where this isn't the case, and I'll eat my hat.
At the end of the day, you're merely arguing in favor of your own idealized view on the events that took place and the changes you see needed in the U.S. (many of which I do not disagree on - this just isn't the case I'm going to champion for change) - in reality, I'll reserve my praise and admiration for individuals who work hard to bring awareness to political corruption, create an intelligent discourse on the change needed in our country, and who in general run away from these kinds of sensationalized instances that it seems everyone in the peanut gallery has an opinion on yet fails utterly to comprehend.
| quote: | Originally posted by Halcyon+On+On
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| Halcyon+On+On |
| quote: | Originally posted by inconspicuous
unless it's unrelated...'cuz sarcasm is dependent
w/e...bse's post made me lol & yours didn't describe my thought process, so 's'all goo |
Perhaps I am misdiagnosing my own post, then. As reticent as I am to do it, I think I was being more satirical than sarcastic. It was a direct response to something you said, though its aim was also quite unrelated to my consideration of you; rather, I was seeking to mock the entire electoral process and the conviction that people have in choosing their leaders, as though the celebrity at the head of things will truly have an impact upon the flawed humanistic self-governing process. But I understand that few people agree with me on that point. So I suppose I said it merely to entertain myself. |
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| inconspicuous |
| quote: | Originally posted by RJT
I'll reserve my praise and admiration for individuals who work hard to bring awareness to political corruption |
<3 Jeff Flake |
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| Cipha Sounds |
| You can use all the big words you can think of to prove your point, but you're still supercalifragilisticexpialidociously wrong. |
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| inconspicuous |
| quote: | Originally posted by Halcyon+On+On
Perhaps I am misdiagnosing my own post, then. As reticent as I am to do it, I think I was being more satirical than sarcastic. It was a direct response to something you said, though its aim was also quite unrelated to my consideration of you; rather, I was seeking to mock the entire electoral process and the conviction that people have in choosing their leaders, as though the celebrity at the head of things will truly have an impact upon the flawed humanistic self-governing process. But I understand that few people agree with me on that point. So I suppose I said it merely to entertain myself. |
I understood that...it just seemed completely random to me in that context. |
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| Halcyon+On+On |
| quote: | Originally posted by RJT
1. You're making a lot, A LOT of assumptions |
Likewise. But what do either of us have to run off, other than what we've read in this thread?
| quote: | | at the end of the day, I'm all for civil disobedience, but when it's done intelligently. |
If you cite Rosa Parks, I am going to shank you in the eye.
| quote: | | This kid was the complete antithesis of intelligence. Further, your "proof" of my mindlessly obeying authority amounts to little more than yet another assumption based on the fact that I am very much glad this kid was punished in some way, shape, or form for being an ass. Have I ever said this kind of activity should be law? |
No, I suppose you've not. But I've gotten every indication that you're with the herd on this one; that this guy was subdued by security forces because he didn't comply with them, and that he deserved it merely because he did not comply; not because he was being obnoxious. I think there plenty of examples out there of authority figures exacting punishment on people merely out of citizens not showing them respect - not because the original "crime" truly warranted the consequence.
If you think he deserved to be tasered merely because he was being an ass, then fine, that is your opinion. I, however, think that it establishes a double-standard that I most certainly would not like to see consistently or ever, for that matter.
| quote: | | 2. You're still talking about the way you want things to be as opposed to the way they are. |
I think I have established many times my awareness of how things are. Yes, I am arguing that they should not be this way. It's why I am arguing int he first place. If things were already exactly how I wanted them to be, we wouldn't be discussing any of this, now would we?
| quote: | | 3. Your assertion that this guy was "someone who would very much put his freedom on the line" is at the very least unwarranted - you don't know him, or his mindset - but his actions themselves seem to indicate to me he would rather cause a scene than accomplish anything. |
I dunno... I kind of respect people who are not afraid to cause a scene. It's an utter display of social disregard - something I very much look up to. I do not expect others to share this opinion, but some grasping of its ridiculousness would be nice sometimes.
| quote: | | 4. "Legitimate authority" is just that, legitimate. I'm sorry you disagree or are unhappy with the powers that be in this country, but regardless of opinion on it, the will of those who can impose law will always super cede that of the average citizen. Again, point me to where one first world country where this isn't the case, and I'll eat my hat. |
Funny thing about that first-world stipulation...
Authority, at its basest, can very much be compared to the practically daily revolutions in African countries. Warlords rise to "power" through force of arms (a true authority?) and then prescribe to the people their authority... That's like saying I am king...because I am king!. God does it. Presidents do it. It's just one of those things that doesn't hold much weight - well, far less than guns do, and far, far less than reason does.
| quote: | | At the end of the day, you're merely arguing in favor of your own idealized view on the events that took place and the changes you see needed in the U.S. |
There is only ever one "reality" to a situation? Not sure I buy that.
And yeah, I'm arguing for my own views. Who the else's would I argue for? See, this is what Voltaire was talking about. People should be free to speak from their perspective, because the responsibility for its interpretation falls almost solely upon those who receive it. Well, maybe he didn't say exactly that, but he should have! [I was being intentionally ironic there, please do not point it out to me]
| quote: | | in reality, I'll reserve my praise and admiration for individuals who work hard to bring awareness to political corruption, create an intelligent discourse on the change needed in our country, and who in general run away from these kinds of sensationalized instances that it seems everyone in the peanut gallery has an opinion on yet fails utterly to comprehend. |
Not that I look up to the ****** being tased, so much as I see the importance in what he represents (however inadvertent it may have been), but who do you look up to? Would you say you have faith in these people? |
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