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Liberals to form Coalition with NDP (pg. 5)
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| MarkT |
first, this isn't a simple matter of which party you support. I simply do not support the Harper gov't. While I can't wait to see Harper out of office, this suspect coalition is hardly the ideal scenario.
Can a gov't take steps to combat a downturn or recession? Yes. (So says Keynesian economic theory anyway)
Has the Harper gov't done enough (or are they doing what they will do quickly enough)? No (IMHO).
Does this mean there should be bailouts for private corporations, particularly those which have largely contributed to their current situation through their own negligence? No.
Until concrete plans by the other parties are known, it's impossible to say if they will be better than the CPC. "something is better than nothing" is definitely flawed logic though...so the other parties indeed have to state exactly what they would do, if given the chance to govern.
*ideally* the CPC backtracks even more than it already has, CPC MPs *demand* that Harper work with the other parties (surely they must be pissed that they could very well be out of office altogether in the near future), the other parties are receptive to working with the CPC, etc. and we avoid the gov't being toppled. I don't think either the expense and logistics of another election or the precariousness of a thrown-together coalition is in Canada's best interests (again, *if* the CPC recognizes that the days of acting like it has a majority mandate are OVER).
whether they can all play nice remains to be seen. I'm as pessimistic about that happening as I am about 3 parties with substantial differences being able to form a stable coalition gov't for any significant length of time (assuming the GG goes that route).
As a Liberal supporter (for now), I'm quite disappointed that the party is not expediting the nomination process for a new leader. I also think it would make more sense to appoint an interim leader (who has no aspirations of keeping that post) rather than have a lame duck in Dion at the helm (the way Bill Graham did prior to Dion becoming leader). |
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| exstasie |
| quote: | Originally posted by activate
If you're referring to subprime mortgages's you are correct, though banks in Canada have taken massive hits from that whole debacle.
everything else... we're having the exact same problems as the US.. though not to the same extent. I work closely with bankruptcy departments at my work, and we see it in our write offs every month. I hear the same thing from associates at other banks. I obviously can't provide numbers, but they're huge everywhere. |
I wasn't saying that we didn't have financial problems of our own, I was just trying to point out that were aren't anywhere near in the same State as the US and don't thing we need any stimulus to the economy.
I read an interesting article about Zimbabwe the other day and apparently they were in the same situation as the US with their banks going bankrupt, and they created their own version of TARP, which didn't work out to well if you don't manage the funds properly as we can see the kind of State that Zimbabwe is in right now.
Today will be an important day in the US. The big 3 automakers are going back to Washington (Mulally said he was driving this time..Wonder if he'll be in a Ford owned car!). If they get their stimulus package then we're all in for a long long ride. Let's just hope it doesn't pass!
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| Moral Hazard |
| quote: | Originally posted by Skipper
All you can say is that canadians voted for harper more than they voted for any other SINGLE leader. |
No, all you can say is that more candidates associated with the conservative party were elected to represent their ridings then were of any other party. The government of Canada is not elected by the people of Canada. This is a Westminster Parliament, which means the people of a given area elect a person to represent their interests in Ottawa, those representatives then choose who will govern. We don't vote for leaders here; we vote for representatives, at present it appears the majority of our representatives want to form a new government... that is their perfect right... if Canadians disagree then we should elect different representatives next time; however, at present the system is working exactly as it is supposed to. |
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| monishb |
| nobody cares about the harper govt, i am glad that this coalition came in place. i never supported harper anyhow. |
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| English Rachel |
| quote: | Originally posted by MarkT
first, this isn't a simple matter of which party you support. I simply do not support the Harper gov't. While I can't wait to see Harper out of office, this suspect coalition is hardly the ideal scenario.
Can a gov't take steps to combat a downturn or recession? Yes. (So says Keynesian economic theory anyway)
Has the Harper gov't done enough (or are they doing what they will do quickly enough)? No (IMHO).
Does this mean there should be bailouts for private corporations, particularly those which have largely contributed to their current situation through their own negligence? No.
Until concrete plans by the other parties are known, it's impossible to say if they will be better than the CPC. "something is better than nothing" is definitely flawed logic though...so the other parties indeed have to state exactly what they would do, if given the chance to govern.
*ideally* the CPC backtracks even more than it already has, CPC MPs *demand* that Harper work with the other parties (surely they must be pissed that they could very well be out of office altogether in the near future), the other parties are receptive to working with the CPC, etc. and we avoid the gov't being toppled. I don't think either the expense and logistics of another election or the precariousness of a thrown-together coalition is in Canada's best interests (again, *if* the CPC recognizes that the days of acting like it has a majority mandate are OVER).
whether they can all play nice remains to be seen. I'm as pessimistic about that happening as I am about 3 parties with substantial differences being able to form a stable coalition gov't for any significant length of time (assuming the GG goes that route).
As a Liberal supporter (for now), I'm quite disappointed that the party is not expediting the nomination process for a new leader. I also think it would make more sense to appoint an interim leader (who has no aspirations of keeping that post) rather than have a lame duck in Dion at the helm (the way Bill Graham did prior to Dion becoming leader). |
What he said.
Mark, we should marry :)
Seriously though, I have agreed with *almost* every word you have said. The only thing I would potentially challenge is the pessimism you have for the 3 parties to form a stable government - I may live in a fairy land but I genuinely hope that we have the best of ideas coming together to create an economically stable Canada as well as a socially responsible one. The problem with a new leader (Ignatieff?) is that they may be more concerned with elevated status than the job at hand...
In times like this, all hands on deck can be positive. There are the 'too many cooks' analogies but I really hope that, as uncharismatic as Dion is, he has the ability to encourage collaboration and cohesiveness to the benefit of the country.
Of course, this can't last long - egos get in the way! But for the next 6-12 months, perhaps it could be the best thing Canada has seen politically since I came here :) |
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| StereoPrincess |
| maybe we should all form a party and run for the next election. the TOTA party. |
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| ChemEnhanced |
| quote: | Originally posted by StereoPrincess
maybe we should all form a party and run for the next election. the TOTA party. |
Oh GOD...even I wouldn't vote for that party.....the internal bickering would destroy us before the election even happened. |
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| Aleks_B |
| i hope the coalition succeeds! |
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| djeso |
| quote: | Originally posted by Yohan
I dont think Harper is going to be sacked by the Cons. I dont even know who'd run for leadership if Harper did get sacked.
NDP... Taliban Jack has a lock. Now that NDP has govt position, his hold on the NDP is even stronger than before.
Libs... The fact that all 3 guys in the running for endorsed this deal shows how power hungry they are. Wait out, win leadership convention and be PM by default. Goooo democracy!
Good to know that the nation will be run by an incompetent who lost the election for next year or so. |
Well Said!! |
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| djeso |
| quote: | Originally posted by Moral Hazard
No, all you can say is that more candidates associated with the conservative party were elected to represent their ridings then were of any other party. The government of Canada is not elected by the people of Canada. This is a Westminster Parliament, which means the people of a given area elect a person to represent their interests in Ottawa, those representatives then choose who will govern. We don't vote for leaders here; we vote for representatives, at present it appears the majority of our representatives want to form a new government... that is their perfect right... if Canadians disagree then we should elect different representatives next time; however, at present the system is working exactly as it is supposed to. |
pfftt... working as it is supposed to ... so much for democracy |
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| djeso |
| quote: | Originally posted by MarkT
first, this isn't a simple matter of which party you support. I simply do not support the Harper gov't. While I can't wait to see Harper out of office, this suspect coalition is hardly the ideal scenario.
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Man you should take the position of the PM .... :clown: seriously |
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| ChemEnhanced |
| quote: | Originally posted by Moral Hazard
No, all you can say is that more candidates associated with the conservative party were elected to represent their ridings then were of any other party. The government of Canada is not elected by the people of Canada. This is a Westminster Parliament, which means the people of a given area elect a person to represent their interests in Ottawa, those representatives then choose who will govern. We don't vote for leaders here; we vote for representatives, at present it appears the majority of our representatives want to form a new government... that is their perfect right... if Canadians disagree then we should elect different representatives next time; however, at present the system is working exactly as it is supposed to. |
That's probably the most easy to understand description of how our system works. |
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