|
Will you be getting the H1N1 flu vaccine? (pg. 11)
|
View this Thread in Original format
| The Highroller |
| quote: | Originally posted by 1dawoman
I think it's time I entered the stock market...
Novartis(NVS)is the Swiss company that was the first to have a successful H1N1 vaccine....I hear their shares are about to soar... |
| quote: | Shot in the dark
Oct 1st 2009 | NEW YORK
From The Economist print edition
Pharmaceutical giants may regret their stampede into the vaccine business
Alamy
Not a cure-all
THE logic in favour of purchases of vaccine firms seems irrefutable. The world is in the grip of a swine-flu pandemic, which will probably infect 40% or more of the human race. Vaccines are likely to be in demand for some time. And the vaccine business has high barriers to entry and, in recent years, attractive margins.
Little wonder that three such acquisitions were announced this week. Abbott Laboratories, an American drugs firm, said it will pay €4.5 billion ($6.6 billion) to acquire vaccines and other pharmaceutical interests from Solvay, a Belgian firm. Johnson & Johnson, an American drugs giant, agreed to pay €302m for an 18% stake in Crucell, a Dutch biotech firm known for its vaccine technology. And Merck, another American drugs giant, revealed that it had bought marketing rights for a flu vaccine made by Australia’s CSL. These are the latest in a series of deals. In 2007 AstraZeneca, a British drugs firm, bought MedImmune, a vaccine-maker, for over $15 billion. Part of the justification for Pfizer’s $68 billion purchase of Wyeth earlier this year was the latter’s expertise in vaccines.
This is quite a change. Until a few years ago most vaccines were priced cheaply, so financial returns were poor. The technology used to make them was often decades old (for example, chicken eggs rather than modern cell cultures are used to make influenza vaccines). A number of big companies sold off their vaccine-making divisions because they regarded vaccines as commodity products.
Three important trends have changed that picture, and help explain this week’s frenzy of deals. First, the industry has managed to persuade governments and insurers that new vaccines against afflictions such as papilloma virus and pneumococcal disease would be worth $100 or more, rather than the standard few dollars a jab, since they would help prevent diseases that would be much more expensive to treat. Better economics has brought with it investment in better technology, such as “adjuvants” that improve a vaccine’s performance even as they reduce the quantity of active ingredients required. And innovators are working on cell-based manufacturing techniques that promise to be quicker and more reliable than using eggs.
Pandemic influenza scares provided another boost to the business. Repeated outbreaks of avian flu in recent years have prompted widespread fear that a new strain might develop into a global scourge. So when swine flu came along, governments the world over wasted no time in ordering vaccines. Manufacturers have been racing to bring vaccines to market in time for the winter flu season in the northern hemisphere. This week Switzerland’s Novartis announced that it had won European approval for its swine-flu vaccine and France’s Sanofi Pasteur delivered the first cases of its rival product. America’s Centres for Disease Control and Prevention expects widespread availability of swine-flu vaccines in a month or so.
So is this a bonanza in the making for vaccine manufacturers? In the short term the answer is yes, especially because governments are throwing money at vaccine-makers to stimulate an expansion of capacity. This is especially true in America, which is a huge net importer of vaccines. This alarms American health officials, because governments typically force vaccine-makers to sell all their output domestically in times of crisis.
Yet there are reasons for caution, despite the favourable omens. Even more than with conventional medicines, getting new vaccines from the lab to the clinic has traditionally involved long lead-times and huge capital investments. Another potential snag is oversupply. A few weeks ago a study concluded that patients needed only one shot of vaccine against swine flu, not two as previously thought. Public-health officials cheered, but vaccine firms suddenly saw half their potential “full price” sales go down the drain (any spare vaccines will now benefit the needy in poor countries, who pay lower prices). It also appears that swine flu mutates slowly, so annual jabs may not be needed.
A deal announced at the end of September by GSK and the Brazilian government hints at the difficulties. In return for greater access to the giant emerging market, the British firm has agreed to sell its vaccine for pneumococcal disease at prices that will fall from over €11 now to just €5 in ten years. It also agreed to hand over the technology for making the vaccine, and to put additional money into local research into a vaccine for dengue fever.
|
|
|
|
| Jayx1 |
| what that article doesnt take into account is the next manufactured "Pandemic" which im sure is being mixed up as we speak! |
|
|
| The Highroller |
| quote: | Originally posted by Jayx1
what that article doesnt take into account is the next manufactured "Pandemic" which im sure is being mixed up as we speak! |
Right, lol.
Good thing I have my tinfoil hat on! |
|
|
| FunkyCrew |
| quote: | Originally posted by evil_cookie
Stop embarrassing yourself discussion after discussion--you don't understand the formulation process that goes behind manufacturing a vaccine, you do no understand its genetic make-up and the implications which follow, and most importantly, you haven't the slightest clue about the effectiveness of a vaccine as contingent on a dozen different factors which vary from person to person. |
and you do eh? shut the up, you pompous ass
do us all a favor - sit in the corner and stink there. |
|
|
| evil_cookie |
| quote: | Originally posted by FunkyCrew
and you do eh? shut the up, you pompous ass
|
Pompous or not, I'm right; and you're still a fresh-of-the-boat-idiot; who hasn't addressed any of my concerns; but that's to be excepted. I mean how could you know any of the stuff I mentioned and still say half the non-sense that you've been infecting this discussion with. You wouldn't, and you don't. So there is no reason to get upset. Just don't participate in a discussion when you're so grossly uninformed. |
|
|
| Spam |
| quote: | Originally posted by evil_cookie
Source huh :stongue:
My god you're an idiot. Spam's claim is not only self-evident, but by asking for validation, you've just proven--without a doubt--that you have no idea what the you're talking about.
Stop embarrassing yourself discussion after discussion--you don't understand the formulation process that goes behind manufacturing a vaccine, you do no understand its genetic make-up and the implications which follow, and most importantly, you haven't the slightest clue about the effectiveness of a vaccine as contingent on a dozen different factors which vary from person to person. |
Now now, jackass, there's no need for name-calling.
Funky's no idiot, she just reads a lot of Toronto Star articles ;)
Anyway, here you go Kris!
http://chemistry.about.com/cs/howth...a/aa011604a.htm
This link also has a video by some doctor who talks about it.
http://clareswinney.wordpress.com/2...o-show-it-does/
In fact, here's a quote from HERE, which is a government site that actually tries to convince you to get the shot, where they "admit" that: "Past studies have shown in years when the vaccine viruses and circulating viruses are well-matched, the vaccine can reduce the chances of getting the flu by 70% to 90% in healthy adults"
That means, that in a well-matched year, in HEALTHY adults, if just 1 million people get the shot, as many as 100,000 people are still unprotected, and are just as likely to get the flu as they were before getting vaccinated. If just 1% of those people get the flu, that's 1,000 people. And 1% is a low estimate, taken from the same CDC website: "In the United States, on average 5% to 20% of the population gets the flu." which means of that minimum 100,000 people who are still unprotected (in a good year, with healthy adults, keep in mind), anywhere from 5000-20,000 could be reasonably expected to get the flu. |
|
|
| Jayx1 |
So Health Canada approved swine flu vaccines today. And on tv they just said that Health Canada just began testing swine flu vaccine today. Figure that one out?
Furthermore, since when have we ever approved anything based on the half testing results from other countries?
This whole thing smells like swine to me. |
|
|
| Elendil |
| quote: | Originally posted by FunkyCrew
wtf? are you on crack?
we pay for our health insurance through taxes, therefore we're entittled to a FREE shot
in NYC it's $20
nope I did not
as a doctor he's in the immediate risk of contracting the H1N1 virus, therefore he should be protected |
What's most funny is the part where you think the shot will protect him - superseding his wisdom as a doctor quite capable of practicing good common sense (rarity, these days) ;) Man, it's sad to see how many people are lined up out the door to have an unproven, untested (in human beings) vaccination pumped into their veins.
Have fun with that one ;) |
|
|
| Elendil |
| quote: | Originally posted by Jayx1
So Health Canada approved swine flu vaccines today. And on tv they just said that Health Canada just began testing swine flu vaccine today. Figure that one out?
Furthermore, since when have we ever approved anything based on the half testing results from other countries?
This whole thing smells like swine to me. |
Jay, no doubt it was through a means similar to how they obtain safety levels with agricultural pesticides:
"Hmmm, ok, that level spontaneously killed the test subject animal, lets dial it back a bit... hmmm, no death? Good - market!"
Funky, the problem is that if we spent more money improving our diets, as well as investing into remineralization of the soul and thereby increasing our consumption of trace minerals, we wouldn't be in this mess. The nutrients we need are so deficient in foods nowadays due to wasteful and destructive farming practices along with processing that we create fertile, acidic breading grounds for this bugs to begin with.
I personally feel that a 50 billion dollar cash grab for an unproven and rushed vaccine to be tested on citizens WORLDWIDE is fat more dangerous than a weak killer doing what every other flu does.
Sad. |
|
|
| yankeeBaby |
| quote: | Originally posted by FunkyCrew
wtf? are you on crack?
we pay for our health insurance through taxes, therefore we're entittled to a FREE shot
in NYC it's $20
|
thats not entirely true, because I have always gotten a free flu shot, even when I wasnt in school and/or didnt have insurance. I am also getting BOTH shots this year in manhattan, and I do not need to present any insurance/job/etc info.
I dont know *who* has to pay the $20 (ie: what qualifications they use) but my shots are next week and I dont have to pay a thing, nor does my insurance pay for it. ;)
(I actually called and asked if I needed my card and they said it was free and insurance not needed, until they ran out, but since I signed up for the first day out of 3 weeks, it certainly wont run out that day!....they have appointments as well, so no standing in lines for all the people rushing for the first days shots!) |
|
|
| FunkyCrew |
| quote: | Originally posted by yankeeBaby
thats not entirely true, because I have always gotten a free flu shot, even when I wasnt in school and/or didnt have insurance. I am also getting BOTH shots this year in manhattan, and I do not need to present any insurance/job/etc info.
I dont know *who* has to pay the $20 (ie: what qualifications they use) but my shots are next week and I dont have to pay a thing, nor does my insurance pay for it. ;)
(I actually called and asked if I needed my card and they said it was free and insurance not needed, until they ran out, but since I signed up for the first day out of 3 weeks, it certainly wont run out that day!....they have appointments as well, so no standing in lines for all the people rushing for the first days shots!) |
I saw posters on bus stops around downtown on Sat/Sun :) it said flu shot and $20, so that's why I mentioned it! |
|
|
|
|
