thats it? 12 pages of factual information vs fairy tail and not one convert?
i'm very disappointed in the delusional nature of the lot of you TOTA's. And here i thought a good baby shaking would enlighten some of you. Is that all you truthers have as "evidence?" All I keep hearing is presumptions of "what if" and no basis. Please bring on the best of your arsenal to be debunked. Also, could we have at least one credible source to have some sort of a start?
I don't think this thread should reach page two until someone has conceded to logic. Otherwise, its a sad day that juvenile propaganda has outwitted the few of you who are having delusions of grandeur, fantasies of an infallible big brother type society.
Comrade Stalin
Karim, the US government ignored foreign intelligence warnings about the 9/11 plot, but since the US government is really behind the 9/11 plot, they ignored warnings on themselves. Culorut, help me out. :stongue:
No one bothered, even attempted, to answer any of these questions...I've got a few more. No stupid ass youtube videos, and please only copy/paste unless it's to support your OWN stated argument and if you do so, condense it down to the most relevant points :o
*Given that the US government is behind the 9/11 plot...
1) Why hasn't just one person in a conspiracy that would have to involve hundreds, not come forward, even anonymously to the press, to expose everything?
2) How could thousands of tonnes of explosives be set in three different high-rise building without anyone noticing?
3) If the US government is behind the 9/11 plot, why were foreign intelligence warnings in reference to an Al-Qaeda plots to use planes as missiles?
4) If the US government is capable of killing 3000 of its own citizens and plant thousands of tonnes of explosives in 3 huge high-rise buildings and lie about it with a straight face with no whistleblowers, then why wouldn't they also plant WMDs in Iraq and lie about finding them?
I can go on forever pointing out logical hole after logical hole in the 9/11 truther religion. Let's here some answers...if we can call them that...
shagnew13
quote:
Originally posted by Comrade Stalin
Karim, the US government ignored foreign intelligence warnings about the 9/11 plot, but since the US government is really behind the 9/11 plot, they ignored warnings on themselves. Culorut, help me out. :stongue:
No one bothered, even attempted, to answer any of these questions...I've got a few more. No stupid ass youtube videos, and please only copy/paste unless it's to support your OWN stated argument and if you do so, condense it down to the most relevant points :o
*Given that the US government is behind the 9/11 plot...
1) Why hasn't just one person in a conspiracy that would have to involve hundreds, not come forward, even anonymously to the press, to expose everything?
Because it goes higher then the U/S Gov't. And only a handful of Officials were involved, and 2 of the Whistleblowers were killed or passed away. Coincidence?
2) How could thousands of tonnes of explosives be set in three different high-rise building without anyone noticing?
It has been stated that a week before the attacks agents and security were pulled from the building, and I believe they had also switched Security companies. hmmmm
3) If the US government is behind the 9/11 plot, why were foreign intelligence warnings in reference to an Al-Qaeda plots to use planes as missiles?
The U/S Gov't can't plant evidence? They tried to help Cuban exiles overthrow Fidel in Cuba, and quickly after the attacks the U/S was in a war on Terrism in Afghan and later on Iraq.
4) If the US government is capable of killing 3000 of its own citizens and plant thousands of tonnes of explosives in 3 huge high-rise buildings and lie about it with a straight face with no whistleblowers, then why wouldn't they also plant WMDs in Iraq and lie about finding them?
Do you really think the Gov't wants to come out and say they were behind the attacks or anything to leak? It would cripple both Bush Administrations, and would cripple the faith that the U/S people still cling to in their own government. Bush's father failed in Iraq and getting Saddam, and this time around the Son finished the Job. Yes it was a huge tragedy and loss of American lives, just like the Wars in Iraq and Afghan have been, but it was to finish what his father couldn't.
I can go on forever pointing out logical hole after logical hole in the 9/11 truther religion. Let's here some answers...if we can call them that...
superluminal
I've never posted in this thread before, but I was wondering if someone addressed this point.
How was there molten steel at ground zero, even weeks after 9/11?
How were such high temperatures produced to melt and maintain molten steel at ground zero when no known fuel sources at ground zero could do that?
love_child
quote:
Originally posted by Comrade Stalin
Karim, the US government ignored foreign intelligence warnings about the 9/11 plot, but since the US government is really behind the 9/11 plot, they ignored warnings on themselves. Culorut, help me out. :stongue:
So then you agree that they ignored warnings about the attack ?
Comrade Stalin
quote:
Originally posted by love_child
So then you agree that they ignored warnings about the attack ?
Where did I ever say they didn't? It's pretty ing obvious dude. But you can't believe that if you believe the US government actually did it...:rolleyes:
Comrade Stalin
quote:
Originally posted by shagnew13
Because it goes higher then the U/S Gov't. And only a handful of Officials were involved, and 2 of the Whistleblowers were killed or passed away. Coincidence?
So the US government really wasn't responsible, just an un-named, super-secret, super-high level, group of really rich dude right? And these super-evil guys planted several thousand tonnes of explosives super-secretly, all by themselves, right? :rolleyes:
quote:
It has been stated that a week before the attacks agents and security were pulled from the building, and I believe they had also switched Security companies. hmmmm
"It has been stated"? Thanks, that explains everything.:rolleyes:
quote:
The U/S Gov't can't plant evidence? They tried to help Cuban exiles overthrow Fidel in Cuba, and quickly after the attacks the U/S was in a war on Terrism in Afghan and later on Iraq.
Two logical fallacies. #1, using past completely unrelated events, as evidence of a supposed conspiracy. #2, you have ZERO evidence the US planted false intelligence.
quote:
Do you really think the Gov't wants to come out and say they were behind the attacks or anything to leak? It would cripple both Bush Administrations, and would cripple the faith that the U/S people still cling to in their own government. Bush's father failed in Iraq and getting Saddam, and this time around the Son finished the Job. Yes it was a huge tragedy and loss of American lives, just like the Wars in Iraq and Afghan have been, but it was to finish what his father couldn't.
If the Pentagon can't prevent 92,000 top secret documents from being published by Wikileaks, or the 7,000 page Pentagon Papers from being published by the New York Times, what makes you think the US government could keep a supposed secret of this magnitude secret? Given the fact that killing 3,000 people like this would have to involve hundreds of participants. Additionally, you nor any other truther, have even attempted to name any participants in the plot, with details of their involvment, other than "Bush did it".
exraver
Oh oh, looks like so called "truthers" got another convert.
None other than president of Iran.
How did they get to him, I wonder?
O wait, I know how: Iran ranks second in the world in natural gas reserves and third in oil reserves. It is OPEC's 2nd largest oil exporter and it has the potential to become an energy superpower.
I bet all this oil and gas has nothing to do with future Iran war, which two known countries are trying to start in last 3 years, waiting just for a right moment.
More from his speech:
Mr. Ahmadinejad framed his comments about Sept. 11 as an examination of opinions, an approach he has used in questioning the Holocaust, as well.
“In identifying those responsible behind the Sept. 11 attacks, there were three viewpoints,” he said.
“First, that a very powerful and complex terrorist group able to successfully cross all layers of the American intelligence and security carried out the attack. This is the prevalent viewpoint which has been supported mainly and advocated by American statesmen.
“Second: that some segments within the U.S. government orchestrated the attack to reverse the declining American economy and its grips on the Middle East in order to save the Zionist regime. The majority of the American people, as well as most nations and politicians around the world agree with this view.
“Third: it was carried out by a terrorist group but that the American government supported and took advantage of the situation. Apparently, this viewpoint has fewer proponents.”
pkcRAISTLIN
quote:
Originally posted by exraver
Oh oh, looks like so called "truthers" got another convert.
None other than president of Iran.
How did they get to him, I wonder?
O wait, I know how: Iran ranks second in the world in natural gas reserves and third in oil reserves. It is OPEC's 2nd largest oil exporter and it has the potential to become an energy superpower.
I bet all this oil and gas has nothing to do with future Iran war, which two known countries are trying to start in last 3 years, waiting just for a right moment.
More from his speech:
Mr. Ahmadinejad framed his comments about Sept. 11 as an examination of opinions, an approach he has used in questioning the Holocaust, as well.
“In identifying those responsible behind the Sept. 11 attacks, there were three viewpoints,” he said.
“First, that a very powerful and complex terrorist group able to successfully cross all layers of the American intelligence and security carried out the attack. This is the prevalent viewpoint which has been supported mainly and advocated by American statesmen.
“Second: that some segments within the U.S. government orchestrated the attack to reverse the declining American economy and its grips on the Middle East in order to save the Zionist regime. The majority of the American people, as well as most nations and politicians around the world agree with this view.
“Third: it was carried out by a terrorist group but that the American government supported and took advantage of the situation. Apparently, this viewpoint has fewer proponents.”
wow, welcome to 2008! Though I must admit, that’s an ironclad source you’ve got there! :haha:
but seriously, I am not sure why you morons think the beliefs of random personalities are evidence. they’re not. Ahmadinejad says the holocaust didn’t happen, which shows you all you need to know about his credibility.
9 years and still no evidence, ho hum.
gummybear
holy ..someone shoot this thread..remove all of its limbs and bury each one a different continent...PLEASE. ;)
geroin
quote:
Originally posted by Comrade Stalin
Two logical fallacies. #1, using past completely unrelated events, as evidence of a supposed conspiracy. #2, you have ZERO evidence the US planted false intelligence.
and then
quote:
Originally posted by Comrade Stalin
If the Pentagon can't prevent 92,000 top secret documents from being published by Wikileaks, or the 7,000 page Pentagon Papers from being published by the New York Times, what makes you think the US government could keep a supposed secret of this magnitude secret? Given the fact that killing 3,000 people like this would have to involve hundreds of participants. Additionally, you nor any other truther, have even attempted to name any participants in the plot, with details of their involvment, other than "Bush did it".
right... what makes you think if pentagon can't prevent one thing they cannot prevent another secret from leaking. It's ing common sense just like you stated that 2 separate events should have no correlation.
You guys are completely ing oblivious to the world around you if you think everything is exactly the way it is written on paper by the govt officials, yet you rely on those documents and you claim that it is THE ING EVIDENCE. Yet anything that is proposed by "other" scientists/scholars/professors/engineers etc that claim that it did not happen that way, they are considered outcasts, their theories are obviously not "peer-reviewed" because no one wants to in the bowl they eat from and lose their jobs. This has happened to almost everyone who tries to investigate or question the material independently. There are countless of formulas/calculations/examinations that were completed independently which do not yield the same results that were provided to us by officials yet you guys completely dismiss them, claiming that is not EVIDENCE but a ing CONSPIRACY THEORY. You keep living in that same stupid ing cloud of idiocy and think that the govt does everything the way they say.
To this day i have not heard one proper explanation that fully satisfies me about the pentagon crash. I have looked up various information specifically on pentagon on sept 11 and i do not see any clear evidence that the plane crashed into the building the way it did.
While i was doing that i did come across this video which has numerous eye witnesses claiming the exact opposite of what was written by govt officials, i'd like to hear a little more explanation.
you can yourself if you are planning on dismissing any "video evidence." i don't really care.
pkcRAISTLIN
quote:
Originally posted by geroin
Yet anything that is proposed by "other" scientists/scholars/professors/engineers etc that claim that it did not happen that way, they are considered outcasts, their theories are obviously not "peer-reviewed" because no one wants to in the bowl they eat from and lose their jobs.
Peer review is THE standard for investigating scientific phenomenon. If it doesn’t pass peer review, it doesn’t exist. It’s rather amusing you don’t understand this yet accuse us of being oblivious! Ha. What you fail to realise, in your rather shallow understanding of everything 911 CT, is that there have been many idiotic papers written by the unqualified fools you are referring to here (though note, none of them are structural engineers, I wonder why that is!) and all of them have failed in their scientific endeavour. One wonders why you continue to believe their nonsense, when they are unable to meet basic standards in science. Why are you satisfied with junk science? Couldn’t be asymmetrical scepticism & confirmation bias could it? Surely not! :haha:
quote:
Originally posted by geroin
This has happened to almost everyone who tries to investigate or question the material independently. There are countless of formulas/calculations/examinations that were completed independently which do not yield the same results that were provided to us by officials yet you guys completely dismiss them, claiming that is not EVIDENCE but a ing CONSPIRACY THEORY.
6. Inability to tell good evidence from bad.
Conspiracy theorists have no place for peer-review, for scientific knowledge, for the respectability of sources. The fact that a claim has been made by anybody, anywhere, is enough for them to reproduce it and demand that the questions it raises be answered, as if intellectual enquiry were a matter of responding to every rumour. While they do this, of course, they will claim to have "open minds" and abuse the sceptics for apparently lacking same.
quote:
Originally posted by geroin
To this day i have not heard one proper explanation that fully satisfies me about the pentagon crash. I have looked up various information specifically on pentagon on sept 11 and i do not see any clear evidence that the plane crashed into the building the way it did.
It’s not really anybody else’s fault if you don’t understand something.
The facts are that flight 77 is known to have left the airport, hundreds travellers saw a united airways commercial plane crash into the pentagon, numerous plane debris, some of it carrying the UA logo was found at the site, DNA matches were made for all but 4 of the passengers/crew at the pentagon crash site, flight 77 and its cargo didn’t show up elsewhere, the black boxes from 77 were recovered at the pentagon, UA are satisfied their plane crashed at the site.
What exactly don’t you understand?
5. Inability to employ or understand Occam's Razor.
Aided by the principle in 4. above, conspiracy theorists never notice that the small inconsistencies in the accounts which they reject are dwarfed by the enormous, gaping holes in logic, likelihood and evidence in any alternative account.
quote:
Originally posted by geroin
While i was doing that i did come across this video which has numerous eye witnesses claiming the exact opposite of what was written by govt officials, i'd like to hear a little more explanation.
you can yourself if you are planning on dismissing any "video evidence." i don't really care.
8. Leaping to conclusions.
Conspiracy theorists are very keen indeed to declare the "official" account totally discredited without having remotely enough cause so to do. Of course this enables them to wheel on the Conan Doyle quote as in 4. above. Small inconsistencies in the account of an event, small unanswered questions, small problems in timing of differences in procedure from previous events of the same kind are all more than adequate to declare the "official" account clearly and definitively discredited. It goes without saying that it is not necessary to prove that these inconsistencies are either relevant, or that they even definitely exist.
