Which one is Echos... :p Imagine if she was in this thread too... Your minds...
idoru
quote:
Originally posted by Arbiter
It's amusing how so many think that their personal experiences are so generalizable. They conceptualize a paradigm based on their narrow perception of a singlar experience, and they think that it gives them some great insight. But, in reality, they can't even see their own experiences clearly, clouded as they are by emotion, much less can they comprehend the breadth of experience in this world. It's rather diappointing, but I suppose they can be forgiven for their humanity.
I think that this post best sums up the thread, and ultimately my response to every post that CD has made. Having had half-a-day to let this thread gestate, I can fully understand where CD is coming from. Now, before you guys get your panties in a bunch, that's not to say that I necessarily agree with him, but I am willing to say that yes, CD, I see your point. However, you're so stuck in the mindset of what happened to your mom's side of the family that it has rendered you incapable of even so much as seeing our point regardless of whether or not you agree with it.
What happened happened. Your family dealt with it, and it most certainly had an impact on you. It is apparent, however, given the responses you threw at Jenny and myself regarding hypothetical suicide of our family, that you feel your situation applies to each and every family that has dealt, is dealing and will deal with suicide.
I hope you're well-aware that everybody handles things differently, and I can honestly say that I have known multiple people who have had close friends or loved ones take their lives and that there was no prevalent, snowballing impact as there was in your family. That's not to say that there wasn't an impact, of course, but it was nothing that couldn't be overcome after a few months of coping with everything.
Ultimately, I understand what you're saying. You're speaking out of your own experience and, in the case of your family, I completely agree with your point. I just wish that you were able to understand that it is different for everybody and that you desperately need to stop blanketing everything and assuming that all suicides play out the same way.
With that, I'm out of this thread. And now for something completely different...
Yeah borderline people threaten suicide more than anyone. Goddamn manipulative attention whores.
MeLLyMeL
Aww that was a great post.
It's so hard not to think of DA... and I am just so glad that he was such a big part of my life. He was part of some of the most fun years of my life. 19-24. Nothing will ever top those years.
:happy2:
epicaricacy
quote:
Originally posted by jennypie
Yeah borderline people threaten suicide more than anyone. Goddamn manipulative attention whores.
considering 10% of those diagnosed actually die from their attempts it is most likely one of the mental disorders with the highest mortality rates.
EddieZilker
@ Lira: Thanks.
RE: BDP. I've read that it's a disorder best treated by therapists who've had experience with Dissociative Identity Disorder; that it's pretty much a pre-cursor for having multiple personalities. As much of an as these people can be, they certainly didn't get that way on their own volition.
Not excusing the behavior. Just saying.
epicaricacy
mental illness is not a choice.
Theresa
quote:
Originally posted by Joss Weatherby
OK cause last time I checked I was arguing two things.
1. Suicide is tragic and affects people around the person who does it.
2. Suicide is selfish, inherently selfish because of the above, and because in the end the only true benefactor is the dead person.
Just making sure we are all the same topic here.
1. I do not disagree... loss for whatever reason is tragic.
2. This is far more complicated than you portray it to be.
A person who is so deep within the realms of depression who is at the point where they believe the only relief that they can attain from their daily living hell is to end it entirely, is only thinking of escaping their torment.
If someone was burning alive, would you call them selfish for trying to escape the fire, rather than attempting to save the family photo albums?
I don't think selfishness and selflessness is a concept that really applies in this situation. Why? Because selfishness implies that one would make a decision considering only themselves and disregarding the implications it has on others. This arguably doesn't happen with a suicidal person. They are thinking only of 'escaping the burning fire' out of defense. To say that the person shouldn't choose to try and escape but rather get the albums because those mean so much to the rest of the family, is actually selfishness on the part of the family. You think that your own personal interests and desire to avoid temporary suffering from a death outweighs the daily, mental torment the suicidal person goes through.
quote:
Originally posted by Joss Weatherby
I think this is where you guys are getting confused. If these people have deep, unsolvable mental issues than maybe some sort of assisted suicide program like we have in Washington State for terminally ill patients is valid. It still needs to be vetted by doctors and the families should be allowed to collect themselves and prepare themselves for the departure of their loved ones.
Them going out and shooting themselves in the back yard with out telling anyone, or slicing their wrists in a bathtub, or hanging themselves from the rafters for a family member to stumble upon is NOT the way they should go about it. That is just going to hurt people.
For once, I completely agree with you on this point. The sad reality is however, our society doesn't think people should have a right to make a decision about whether they should or should not continue their own lives. As such, these people get desperate and do whatever they can... which unfortunately results in some pretty awful situations.
quote:
Originally posted by Joss Weatherby
But you agree a sudden and violent departure is not a good way to handle it right? I mean not allowing the families to get their books in order is just going to cause harm to them.
THEY HAVE NO OTHER CHOICE!!
____________________________________
As for the guy who talked about someone killing someone and then offing themselves....
A homicidal person is undoubtedly mentally ill, without question. Chances are, they did what they did and had a moment of clarity, realized that what they did was so beyond awful and terrible that the only thing they could think to do was to end it for themselves. Who would possibly want to live with themselves after doing something that horrid?
People need to look beyond their scope of 'normal thinking' and assumptions that everyone else has the same abilities. There are people out there who cannot think 'normally', and suffer with debilitating thoughts day in and day out. They cannot control it, and anyone in that state would probably give their arm and leg to get rid of the illness.
To be angry at someone who suffered daily, who struggled with simple functioning, for wanting to just stop it and relieve themselves of their personal "burning alive", is pure stupidity and selfishness on their part.
MrJiveBoJingles
quote:
Originally posted by Theresa
A homicidal person is undoubtedly mentally ill, without question.
Why do you think that?
EddieZilker
I was watching Medium, the other night, before heading off to sleepy land and the protagonist had a monologue where she recalled a New Yorker article about a psychologist who interviewed every survivor she could find. Apparently all of them said that about 2/3rds of the way down, they realized that none of the problems they faced, causing them to jump in the first place, weren't insurmountable and, indeed, were solvable.
I looked and did find an article and it did say that most of the survivors had similar realizations but without the 2/3rds detail.
quote:
Survivors often regret their decision in midair, if not before. Ken Baldwin and Kevin Hines both say they hurdled over the railing, afraid that if they stood on the chord they might lose their courage. Baldwin was twenty-eight and severely depressed on the August day in 1985 when he told his wife not to expect him home till late. “I wanted to disappear,” he said. “So the Golden Gate was the spot. I’d heard that the water just sweeps you under.” On the bridge, Baldwin counted to ten and stayed frozen. He counted to ten again, then vaulted over. “I still see my hands coming off the railing,” he said. As he crossed the chord in flight, Baldwin recalls, “I instantly realized that everything in my life that I’d thought was unfixable was totally fixable—except for having just jumped.”
I don't buy rationalizations for committing suicide. It just doesn't cut it. I think that people just do a really good job of convincing themselves to do a lot of really stupid . Are they victims? In every since of the word and they have my full sympathy - every single one. That still doesn't negate the fact that suicide, excepting terminally ill people in pain, is a stupid and selfish thing to do.
