|
Breaking News: Isreal and Lebanon at War? (pg. 24)
|
View this Thread in Original format
| hardcore trancer |
| quote: | Originally posted by Fir3start3r
My question is, why were they still there??? :wtf:
I realize they may have been trapped recently but it's not like they weren't cognisant of the situation before they arrived...
|
you are pathatic.Do you not see whats happening there?THEY HAVE NO WAY OF GETTING OUT.No airport no roads no nothing.where the are they suppose to go?:whip:
It is sad to see how careless and ignorant some people could be. |
|
|
| hardcore trancer |
| quote: | Originally posted by digitul punk
Guys.. what are we even doing? It's god's chosen people wiping out the "dirty arabs".. let them bomb those bastards and claim the whole mid-east region as theirs. After all it's their god given right to bomb the whole ing world and call everyone a terrorist. :rolleyes: |
I hope they burn in hell with their god. |
|
|
| Fir3start3r |
| quote: | Originally posted by hardcore trancer
you are pathatic.Do you not see whats happening there?THEY HAVE NO WAY OF GETTING OUT.No airport no roads no nothing.where the are they suppose to go?:whip:
It is sad to see how careless and ignorant some people could be. |
Maybe you should look before you type; I acknowledged that a couple posts up and THEN put the question out as to why they were in such a hotspot to begin with.
At least try and catch up with the rest of us in conversation before spewing your blind hatred... :rolleyes: |
|
|
| dennis |
| quote: | Originally posted by hardcore trancer
It is all about shifting attentions so that they can do their dirty works.God knows what type of massacre is happening in Gaza right now. |
I hope they get rid of enough to not casue any more problems. |
|
|
| Epicurus |
| quote: | Originally posted by Goashem
Epicurus, maybe you can shed light on this for me as a lebanese. israel has been targeting alot of civilian infrustructure, there was alot of civilian causulties. wouldnt that skew the lebanese opinion against israel? and see the hezbollah as heroes that stand up to the bully? |
You make a good point, and I'll try to explain my position with regards to this as best as I can. As I mentioned previously, Israel is hoping that a firm retaliation to the kidnapping is going to "send the message" to the Lebanese government and to the populace that an armed Hizballah patrolling the Southern Lebanese border with Israel is unacceptable, and that a very heavy price will be payed for any transgressions.
The Israeli operation is a delicate one, in that they must use only the necessary amount of force to make their point and avoid civilian casualties at all costs. As much as I despise the IDF, I doubt they're targeting civilians purposefully (although some may disagree with me and probably be able to put up a robust argument) as there is no strategic benefit to that whatsoever -- quite the contrary of course. In other words, the killing of civilians isn't part of their strategy. Bluntly, they're ing up, and big time. And if they keep on ing up, the reverse effect that you mentioned may indeed occur. The longer this operation drags on, the more this benefits Hizballah, and they know it. This is why I prefaced my earlier post with "If the situation does not escalate any further, and normalcy returns to Lebanon in the near future (i.e. one-two weeks)", because if this conflict spirals out of control and keeps on dragging, even the anti-Hizballah factions will have no choice but to grudgingly support them, at least temporarily.
As for the destruction of civilian infrastructure, that is part of the collective punishment policy that Israel adheres to, and is their way of "sending the message". I don't believe in the slightest the official "reason" given by the Israeli government, that of ensuring that the soldiers are not transported out of Lebanon. It makes no difference whether the soldiers are inside of Lebanon or not, because either way, they won't recover them. They won't find them inside of Lebanon or outside of Lebanon. If they couldn't retrieve the kidnapped soldier from Gaza, which is a fraction of land compared to Lebanon, do they seriously envision retrieving the kidnapped soldiers from Lebanon, assuming they're still there? Of course not. And to think that Hizballah will cower under pressure and simply hand the soldiers over because of the shelling is a pipe dream, and they know it. This is clearly a pretext by Israel to once again, "send the message" loud and clear, although if they keep this up, their strategy will surely backfire.
Finally, to everyone claiming that the Lebanese government should have rained Hizballah in a long time ago, please understand that such a proposition is simply impossible. First of all, Hizballah is more powerful than the Lebanese military. Lebanon barely has any military to speak of, while Hizballah is being helped militarily by Syria and Iran. Second of all, if you don't appreciate the fragility of the Lebanese societal fabric, you simply won't understand how delicate such a proposal is. Hizballah is supported by a large minority in Lebanon (over 40% of Lebanese in Lebanon are Shia, and wholeheartedly support Hizballah), and any faulty maneuvering by the majority anti-Hizballah government risks plunging Lebanon into a civil war. It's not as easy as simply claiming that the Lebanese government needs to disarm Hizballah. They would love to, but they simply can't, because of their military weakness, and because of the societal ramifications of such a move. Senora has been pleading on national television for a cease fire for the past few days, and attempting to establish his jurisdiction over Lebanon as acting prime minister, but to no avail. He's simply powerless to do anything. Think of him as Kofi Annan, and his government as the UN.
Here's a good article that lends credence to what I'm trying to say. |
|
|
| Fir3start3r |
| quote: | Originally posted by hardcore trancer
WOW
I guess you really havent been watching what a disaster Lebenon has become in past few days.
|
WOW
I guess it never occured to you that Israel is targeting what they need to?
You seem to think (at least it's pretty evident from your chicken little attitude) that Israel is out there creating gas chambers and lining all the arabs up for extintion.
Please wake up and join reality.
[edit]sorry for the gas chamber analogy guys, I just realized the irony...
| quote: |
This is bull.How are you expecting Lebenon to solve anything when thay are getting their asses bombed by the filthy zionists? |
You mean the problem that they should have solved according to the U.N. mandate BEFORE Israel was forced to move?
Filthy zionists?
Why do you insist on arguing like a 5 year old?
You bring accusations but absoultely no support to any thread you post except opinion and bent, cheap, historical rhetoric.
Actually we can't even call it historical because 90% it isn't even true even after being corrected by others.
Whatever; forever the troll you are... :disbelief |
|
|
| Fir3start3r |
| quote: | Originally posted by Epicurus
You make a good point, and I'll try to explain my position with regards to this as best as I can. As I mentioned previously, Israel is hoping that a firm retaliation to the kidnapping is going to "send the message" to the Lebanese government and to the populace that an armed Hizballah patrolling the Southern Lebanese border with Israel is unacceptable, and that a very heavy price will be payed for any transgressions.
The Israeli operation is a delicate one, in that they must use only the necessary amount of force to make their point and avoid civilian casualties at all costs. As much as I despise the IDF, I doubt they're targeting civilians purposefully (although some may disagree with me and probably be able to put up a robust argument) as there is no strategic benefit to that whatsoever -- quite the contrary of course. In other words, the killing of civilians isn't part of their strategy. Bluntly, they're ing up, and big time. And if they keep on ing up, the reverse effect that you mentioned may indeed occur. The longer this operation drags on, the more this benefits Hizballah, and they know it. This is why I prefaced my earlier post with "If the situation does not escalate any further, and normalcy returns to Lebanon in the near future (i.e. one-two weeks)", because if this conflict spirals out of control and keeps on dragging, even the anti-Hizballah factions will have no choice but to grudgingly support them, at least temporarily.
As for the destruction of civilian infrastructure, that is part of the collective punishment policy that Israel adheres to, and is their way of "sending the message". I don't believe in the slightest the official "reason" given by the Israeli government, that of ensuring that the soldiers are not transported out of Lebanon. It makes no difference whether the soldiers are inside of Lebanon or not, because either way, they won't recover them. They won't find them inside of Lebanon or outside of Lebanon. If they couldn't retrieve the kidnapped soldier from Gaza, which is a fraction of land compared to Lebanon, do they seriously envision retrieving the kidnapped soldiers from Lebanon, assuming they're still there? Of course not. And to think that Hizballah will cower under pressure and simply hand the soldiers over because of the shelling is a pipe dream, and they know it. This is clearly a pretext by Israel to once again, "send the message" loud and clear, although if they keep this up, their strategy will surely backfire.
Finally, to everyone claiming that the Lebanese government should have rained Hizballah in a long time ago, please understand that such a proposition is simply impossible. First of all, Hizballah is more powerful than the Lebanese military. Lebanon barely has any military to speak of, while Hizballah is being helped militarily by Syria and Iran. Second of all, if you don't appreciate the fragility of the Lebanese societal fabric, you simply won't understand how delicate such a proposal is. Hizballah is supported by a large minority in Lebanon (over 40% of Lebanese in Lebanon are Shia, and wholeheartedly support Hizballah), and any faulty maneuvering by the majority anti-Hizballah government risks plunging Lebanon into a civil war. It's not as easy as simply claiming that the Lebanese government needs to disarm Hizballah. They would love to, but they simply can't, because of their military weakness, and because of the societal ramifications of such a move. Senora has been pleading on national television for a cease fire for the past few days, and attempting to establish his jurisdiction over Lebanon as acting prime minister, but to no avail. He's simply powerless to do anything. Think of him as Kofi Annan, and his government as the UN.
Here's a good article that lends credence to what I'm trying to say. |
Thanks Epicurus for the info. :) |
|
|
| jonSun |
| quote: | Originally posted by Fir3start3r
WOW
I guess it never occured to you that Israel is targeting what they need to?
|
Civilians.? :conf: |
|
|
| hardcore trancer |
| quote: | Originally posted by Fir3start3r
Maybe you should look before you type; I acknowledged that a couple posts up and THEN put the question out as to why they were in such a hotspot to begin with.
At least try and catch up with the rest of us in conversation before spewing your blind hatred... :rolleyes: |
blind hatred? unlike you I a care about the people that are dying becuse of Israels actions. |
|
|
| jonSun |
| quote: | Originally posted by Epicurus
You make a good point, and I'll try to explain my position with regards to this as best as I can. As I mentioned previously, Israel is hoping that a firm retaliation to the kidnapping is going to "send the message" to the Lebanese government and to the populace that an armed Hizballah patrolling the Southern Lebanese border with Israel is unacceptable, and that a very heavy price will be payed for any transgressions.
The Israeli operation is a delicate one, in that they must use only the necessary amount of force to make their point and avoid civilian casualties at all costs. As much as I despise the IDF, I doubt they're targeting civilians purposefully (although some may disagree with me and probably be able to put up a robust argument) as there is no strategic benefit to that whatsoever -- quite the contrary of course. In other words, the killing of civilians isn't part of their strategy. Bluntly, they're ing up, and big time. And if they keep on ing up, the reverse effect that you mentioned may indeed occur. The longer this operation drags on, the more this benefits Hizballah, and they know it. This is why I prefaced my earlier post with "If the situation does not escalate any further, and normalcy returns to Lebanon in the near future (i.e. one-two weeks)", because if this conflict spirals out of control and keeps on dragging, even the anti-Hizballah factions will have no choice but to grudgingly support them, at least temporarily.
As for the destruction of civilian infrastructure, that is part of the collective punishment policy that Israel adheres to, and is their way of "sending the message". I don't believe in the slightest the official "reason" given by the Israeli government, that of ensuring that the soldiers are not transported out of Lebanon. It makes no difference whether the soldiers are inside of Lebanon or not, because either way, they won't recover them. They won't find them inside of Lebanon or outside of Lebanon. If they couldn't retrieve the kidnapped soldier from Gaza, which is a fraction of land compared to Lebanon, do they seriously envision retrieving the kidnapped soldiers from Lebanon, assuming they're still there? Of course not. And to think that Hizballah will cower under pressure and simply hand the soldiers over because of the shelling is a pipe dream, and they know it. This is clearly a pretext by Israel to once again, "send the message" loud and clear, although if they keep this up, their strategy will surely backfire.
Finally, to everyone claiming that the Lebanese government should have rained Hizballah in a long time ago, please understand that such a proposition is simply impossible. First of all, Hizballah is more powerful than the Lebanese military. Lebanon barely has any military to speak of, while Hizballah is being helped militarily by Syria and Iran. Second of all, if you don't appreciate the fragility of the Lebanese societal fabric, you simply won't understand how delicate such a proposal is. Hizballah is supported by a large minority in Lebanon (over 40% of Lebanese in Lebanon are Shia, and wholeheartedly support Hizballah), and any faulty maneuvering by the majority anti-Hizballah government risks plunging Lebanon into a civil war. It's not as easy as simply claiming that the Lebanese government needs to disarm Hizballah. They would love to, but they simply can't, because of their military weakness, and because of the societal ramifications of such a move. Senora has been pleading on national television for a cease fire for the past few days, and attempting to establish his jurisdiction over Lebanon as acting prime minister, but to no avail. He's simply powerless to do anything. Think of him as Kofi Annan, and his government as the UN.
Here's a good article that lends credence to what I'm trying to say. |
Nice post :) |
|
|
| Fir3start3r |
| quote: | Originally posted by jonSun
Civilians.? :conf: |
Did we forget the part where the Hizballah use's civilians as shields?
Yes there's going to be f@ck ups in any military campaign, that's just a fact.
Name me one large campaign that didn't include civilian casualties; that's just a hard fact.
It sucks yes but it's going to happen.
Lets just hope it remains to a minimum for everyone's sakes... |
|
|
| LazFX |
| quote: | Originally posted by hardcore trancer
I hope they burn in hell with their god. |
pssst....before someone tells you..
they muslim and jew, worship the same god, they are both decendents of Abraham.....
just wanting you to know and would not want anyone here to say you are ignorant......
 |
|
|
|
|
