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Breaking News: Isreal and Lebanon at War? (pg. 69)
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| Purple |
| quote: | Originally posted by Shakka
It is virtually unaniumously acknowledged that Hezbollah instigated this. What is your point? Do you want to argue the stance of proportionality? The argument there is that Israel has been shunned, persecuted and attacked for decades. Hezbollah is nothing more than a state sponsored terrorist organization. Their ultimate elimination will be a boon for the entire world. Israel does not intend to leave the job unfinished this time as it would only leave open the door for Hezbollah to regroup and instigate another day. |
Coudnt find any link to any recent terrorist act by Hizbollah ?
The point I want to make is that Hezbollah is not Al-Qaida, Hezbollah is not a terrorist organisation. They are the name for South Lebanon's Army. They have been resonsible for maintaining law and order there, forming govt, building infrastructure like school, hospitals etc in South Lebanon. They have 14 seats in Lebanon’s Parliament. They fought Israeli occupation and got Lebanon free from them in year 2000. Hezbollah has provided military defense of the area acting as the area's army. Despite no official declaration, the stated policy of the Lebanese Government has supported Hezbollah as the army of South Lebanon. People in Lebanon respect them and look upto them. They are neither hated like Taliban was (by some people) in Afaghanistan. Only FOUR countries in this ENTIRE world have listed Hezbollah as a 'terrorist' organisation, two of them US and Israel.
Other than few clashes between Hezbollah and Israeli forces at border, albeit at a relatively low level, in the years following 2000, they have not participated in any 'terrorist' act. These kind of clashes at border level happen between a lot of countries with slightest border dispute. Its call border skermishes; not terrorism, not terrorist act.
The point I want to make it, stop calling everyone 'terrorist' and terrorising other people lives at the same hand. Israel is a terrorist nation. |
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| occrider |
| quote: | Originally posted by Purple
Coudnt find any link to any recent terrorist act by Hizbollah ?
The point I want to make is that Hezbollah is not Al-Qaida, Hezbollah is not a terrorist organisation. They are the name for South Lebanon's Army. They have been resonsible for maintaining law and order there, forming govt, building infrastructure like school, hospitals etc in South Lebanon. They have 14 seats in Lebanon’s Parliament. They fought Israeli occupation and got Lebanon free from them in year 2000. Hezbollah has provided military defense of the area acting as the area's army. Despite no official declaration, the stated policy of the Lebanese Government has supported Hezbollah as the army of South Lebanon. People in Lebanon respect them and look upto them. They are neither hated like Taliban was (by some people) in Afaghanistan. Only FOUR countries in this ENTIRE world have listed Hezbollah as a 'terrorist' organisation, two of them US and Israel.
Other than few clashes between Hezbollah and Israeli forces at border, albeit at a relatively low level, in the years following 2000, they have not participated in any 'terrorist' act. These kind of clashes at border level happen between a lot of countries with slightest border dispute. Its call border skermishes; not terrorism, not terrorist act.
The point I want to make it, stop calling everyone 'terrorist' and terrorising other people lives at the same hand. Israel is a terrorist nation. |
So did the Lebanese government support the Hezbollah attack against Israeli forces that resulted in the soldier kidnappings in Israeli territory? Did the Lebanese government endorse the rocket attacks that Hezoballah initiatited against Israeli civilian populations? If it's not a terrorist organization why don't you justify their actions? |
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| DJFreaq |
| quote: | Originally posted by Purple
Israel is a terrorist nation. |
Nuclear weapons are true terror. Don't compare Israeli attacks, and hizbullahbullah rockets to terrorism.
It isn't squat in my book. All Israel and Hizbullah are doing is feeding the fire. They're like fat old ladies in a fabric store on clearance day. They keep farting and upping the anty. But none of them actually buy any of the fabric they're all scrounging around and fighting for.
The worst part about it is. Once again Joe Israel, and Joe Lebanon and their famlies are caught in the middle of it. |
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| Fir3start3r |
| quote: | Originally posted by hardcore trancer
Hezbullah this Hezbullah that.
I cant believe how one sided you are on this.For the love of god get some brain and look close and see who is really to blame here.Hezbullah will be bigger and more powerful then even thanks to Isreal.I can asure that this whole situation will back fire on Israel big time. |
How about you do some reading and catch up on Hezbollah using women, children and THE U.N. as shields while they killed a Canadian U.N. soldier in the process?
UNITED NATIONS INTERIM FORCE IN LEBANON (UNIFIL) Report
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Canadian Killed Complained U.N. Position Was Shielding Hezbollah
IMRA reports (via colleague Grayson Levy):
"...the tragic loss of a soldier yesterday who I happen to know and I think probably is from my Regiment. We've received e-mails from him a few days ago and he described the fact that he was taking within - in one case -- three meters of his position "for tactical necessity - not being targeted". Now that's veiled speech in the military and what he was telling us was Hezbullah fighters were all over his position and the IDF were (sic) targeting them and that's a favorite trick by people who don't have representation in the UN. They use the UN as shields knowing that they can't be punished for it."
Retired Canadian Major General Lewis MacKenzie interviewed on CBC Toronto radio 26 July 2006
For recording:
http://cbc.ca/metromorning/media/20060726LMCJUL26.ram
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>>Source<<
How does the Hezbollah ever expect to gain sympathy from anyone with THAT brillant game plan? :rolleyes:
The Hezbollah's mandate is clear, the distruction of Isreal and nothing less and at any cost.
| quote: |
A Reminder Of Hezbollah's Track Record
Some still consider Israel's decision to respond with a limited war to Hezbollah's invasion, which killed eight and saw two IDF soldiers abducted by the terrorists, an unreasonable reaction to the scale of the provocation. People have forgotten that Hezbollah has not sat quietly in Lebanon and acted as a political party during the six years after Israel's withdrawal from southern Lebanon. Just eight months ago, Hezbollah fired off rockets at Israel:
Rocket Attacks Don't Dent Sharon By Martin Sieff Dec 29, 2005
WASHINGTON, The latest wave of Islamic Jihad and Hezbollah rocket attacks on Israel suggest an ambitious tactical political agenda on the part of the attackers. With Israel deep in the throes of probably its most crucial general election in almost 29 years, terrorist groups are trying to directly influence the political process.
The attacks certainly fulfill the warning of Israeli security chiefs that hostile Islamist groups would seek to follow up the unilateral Israeli withdrawal Gaza earlier this year with a new wave of terror attacks. And certainly so far, the guerrillas still do not appear to be anywhere near reclaiming the capability they enjoyed for years in the Second Intifada of massacring dozens of Israeli civilians, including women and children, almost per week in suicide bomb attacks.
The attacks by Hezbollah from the north are clearly backed by the new hard-line regime in Iran where the new president, Mahmoud Ahmadinejad, has called for Israel to be wiped off the map and questioned the historical accuracy of the Holocaust. As tensions mount between Israel and an Iran rapidly driving to acquire a formidable nuclear strike capability, Iran is clearly showing no hesitation in playing the Hezbollah card.
And in May 2005, this report from Isracast reminds us that Hezbollah showered northern Israel with rockets for three days in September 2004. This came as Ariel Sharon considered the Gaza withdrawal, and led Sharon to forswear a new war in Lebanon at that time -- when Rafik Hariri's assassination forced the Syrians to withdraw from Lebanon themselves:
Along the Lebanese frontier, Hezbollah launched a series of cross border shellings of Israeli civilian and military targets. There were no Israeli casualties but some damage. The IDF responded with limited air strikes and tank fire. Prime Minister Ariel Sharon says Israel has no intention of being drawn into a further escalation by the pro-Iranian Hezbollah.
Hezbollah guerillas in south Lebanon shelled Israel for further three days running. Although Israeli aircraft and tanks fired back, Prime Minister Ariel Sharon said Israel has no interest in being drawn into a further escalation.
* Sept.11th - Hezbollah fires Katyusha rocket at Western Galilee town of Shelomi - the rocket slams into the industrial zone causing damage but no casualties because the area was abandoned due to Independence Day.
* Sept.12th - Hezbollah fires 2 rockets from south Lebanon at IDF position in Mount Dov area (Shaaba farms) of Syria. No Casualties or damage. Israeli forces return fire at Hezbollah positions in the area.
* Sept.13th - Hezbollah fires 13 mortar bombs at IDF positions in Mount Dov, IDF fires back and hits 3 Hezbollah positions.
One might ask what the UNIFIL forces did during this time. Apparently, not a lot. They didn't act as a deterrent, nor did they do much to stop it. That might come up for discussion at the UN Security Council very soon, because UNIFIL's mandate expires next Monday:
According to Security Council resolutions 425 (1978) and 426 (1978) of 19 March 1978, UNIFIL was established to:
* Confirm the withdrawal of Israeli forces from southern Lebanon;
* Restore international peace and security;
* Assist the Government of Lebanon in ensuring the return of its effective authority in the area.
Most recently the mandate of UNIFIL was extended until 31 July 2006 by Security Council resolution 1655 (2006) of 31 January 2006.
I doubt seriously that anyone will support its extension, given the complete failure of this mission to provide any sort of protection against terrorism in the region. (UNIFIL link via NZ Bear)
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>>Source<< |
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| hardcore trancer |
| quote: | Originally posted by Fir3start3r
How about you do some reading and catch up on Hezbollah using women, children and THE U.N. as shields while they killed a Canadian U.N. soldier in the process?
UNITED NATIONS INTERIM FORCE IN LEBANON (UNIFIL) Report
>>Source<<
How does the Hezbollah ever expect to gain sympathy from anyone with THAT brillant game plan? :rolleyes:
The Hezbollah's mandate is clear, the distruction of Isreal and nothing less and at any cost.
>>Source<< |
If these brutal hezbullah terrorists are that evil then why is it that almost all arab countries support them?if they are that bad why isnt the whole world going after them?
why is it that only Israel and the U.S wants them out?
you seem to think that you know alot about the middle east,then perhaps you can tell me how would this Israeli aggression could make Israel safer in the region and how will this make the region stabilized?
Almost everyone in the world aside from the U.S is saying that this war will bring no good to Israel and istead it will make Hezbullah more powerful and more popular in the region. |
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| Q5echo |
| quote: | Originally posted by hardcore trancer
If these brutal hezbullah terrorists are that evil then why is it that almost all arab countries support them? |
uh, in case you missed it, Jordan, Egypt and Saudi Arabia are quietly calling for the end of Hezbollah in the region.
Hezbollah is seen among the Sunni governments in the region as a smaller threat of the much greater threat of a radical Shia Iran.
Those countries have, more or less, come to terms with the existence of Israel behind it's current borders and a moderate Lebanon and have yet to come to terms with the deeper issue of Sunni/Shia conflict.
thats why they have not come to the aid of Hezbollah, not the other way around.
| quote: | | you seem to think that you know alot about the middle east,then perhaps you can tell me how would this Israeli aggression could make Israel safer in the region and how will this make the region stabilized? |
you deal Hezbollah a fatal blow, you make a lot of Arabs happy in the region. |
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| Shakka |
| quote: | Originally posted by hardcore trancer
you seem to think that you know alot about the middle east,then perhaps you can tell me how would this Israeli aggression could make Israel safer in the region and how will this make the region stabilized? |
How 'bout acknowledging that Hezbollah aggression begot the current Israeli response. Not the other way around.
When a country and race of people must defend their very right to exist on a daily basis, it is no surprise that they would lash out with such ferocity following yet another in a long line of aggressive acts by a "religion of peace" whose major tenets include wiping Israel off the map and into the sea--the extermination of a race of people.
| quote: | When Arabs are winning they see no rationale for quitting because chaos is their goal. When they begin to lose they claim victimhood, knowing they can extract more from anxious Westerners who feel guilty.
With Radical Arabs, everything is temporary until they regain, or perceive they have, the advantage. They never stop trying the door knobs in hope that they can enter and steal.
Negotiate, cease fire, disproportionalism- all "garbage words" - simply play into the terrorist's hands because they demonstrate weakness, lack of resolve and willingness to crush them. And even if you crush them, the flames of their hatred born out of years of misguided education, feelings of inadequacy and historic mis-treatment remain burning embers capable of re-igniting.
Radical Islamist terrorism is amoebic and difficult to kill but appeasement and flight are also not the answer. We are in for a very long struggle and the more we allow them to acheive weapon equivalency the more destruction and tragedy will be the dividends. If nothing else, Hezballah should prove that.
We either stop Iran, N Korea, Syria et al now or we will have to do so later unless we are ready to surrender our freedom, which many seem willing to do not knowing what they are asking for. It is as simple and yet as complex as that and I don't know a damn thing like the vaulted political, military and diplomatic experts who got us here.
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| Fir3start3r |
| quote: | Originally posted by hardcore trancer
If these brutal hezbullah terrorists are that evil then why is it that almost all arab countries support them?if they are that bad why isnt the whole world going after them?
why is it that only Israel and the U.S wants them out?
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Other than us believing your vast Middle East experience, where have you been reading that?
Unless you're rooting for Syria and Iran you're standing alone on this one.
As Q5echo as eluded to, all the other arab countries are pretty quiet on this one or have out and out spoke of their displeasure with Hizbollah.
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you seem to think that you know alot about the middle east,then perhaps you can tell me how would this Israeli aggression could make Israel safer in the region and how will this make the region stabilized?
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I hope this is a rhetorical question because Israel's demands are quite clear to everyone else? :conf:
| quote: |
Almost everyone in the world aside from the U.S is saying that this war will bring no good to Israel and istead it will make Hezbullah more powerful and more popular in the region. |
While it's true Hizbollah is part of the parliment and such, their policies are anything but popular to everyone else in the region (minus Syria and Iran of course). |
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| hardcore trancer |
| quote: | Originally posted by Fir3start3r
As Q5echo as eluded to, all the other arab countries are pretty quiet on this one or have out and out spoke of their displeasure with Hizbollah. |
yes but Iam talking about the people of the countries that support Hezbullah and not the GOVERNMENT.like in Egypt where there was a huge protest and the people there where showing their support for Hezbullah.
We all know that most arab countries in the region are run by a puppet government who support the Americans and their politics however thats not case with their people.
| quote: | | I hope this is a rhetorical question because Israel's demands are quite clear to everyone else? :conf: |
oh dude you still think this is about 2 damn soldiers?remember Iraq? the so called WMD? which was simply and excuse for invasion.Israel is pulling the same on Lebenon.
| quote: | | While it's true Hizbollah is part of the parliment and such, their policies are anything but popular to everyone else in the region (minus Syria and Iran of course). |
The point is Hezbullah is here to stay and they are now more popular then ever before so they cant be destroyd in other words Israel is wasting time and really this whole agression is pointless and nothing postitive could possibly come out of it. |
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| Fir3start3r |
| quote: | Originally posted by hardcore trancer
yes but Iam talking about the people of the countries that support Hezbullah and not the GOVERNMENT.like in Egypt where there was a huge protest and the people there where showing their support for Hezbullah.
We all know that most arab countries in the region are run by a puppet government who support the Americans and their politics however thats not case with their people.
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Yes, that must be it.
All arab countries are puppet governments with no brians of their own and are slaves of big scary American foreign policy.
Sounds like more like a person bent on anti-American paranoia than actual fact. Let's stop hiding behind this thin veil shall we? It's no surprise to any of us your views on American culture or policy but trying to pass off personal opinion as fact doesn't do a thing for your arguments.
At least give us something to chew on like...oh say...a source prehaps? (how many times am I going to have to repeat this?)
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oh dude you still think this is about 2 damn soldiers?
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uh...no...I've (and others) actually argued against that lame suggestion, several times.
If you're too lazy to follow along and just put words in my mouth because you can't be bothered to actually read, then please do me (and all of us) a favour and don't bother replying to any of my posts.
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The point is Hexbullah is here to stay and they are now more popular then ever before so they cant be destroyd in other words Israel is wasting time and really this whole agression is pointless and nothing postitive could possibly come out of it. |
Can you please point out this, "they are now more popluar then ever before" suggestion?
How about a link? a source? anything?
We're not going to just believe you because you said so; you know should know better than this by now... |
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| DJFreaq |
| quote: | Originally posted by hardcore trancer
The point is Hezbullah is here to stay and they are now more popular then ever before so they cant be destroyd in other words Israel is wasting time and really this whole agression is pointless and nothing postitive could possibly come out of it. |
Okay. Lets think hypothetically (this goes for you too Purple).
Describe to me what will happen if Israel does the following:
1. Stops all aggression towards Hezbollah and Palestinians
2. Pulls troops out from the Gaza strip and Westbank entirely
3. And finally, Israel gives up Jerusalem and shrinks its borders to the original UN Partition Plan in 1947
Now can you say to me, everyone else in PDD, and to yourself, with an honest heart:
"The violence will stop"
This is assuming you WANT peace in the region.
Would you really believe it yourself if you said it? |
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| Purple |
| quote: | Originally posted by DJFreaq
Okay. Lets think hypothetically (this goes for you too Purple).
Describe to me what will happen if Israel does the following:
1. Stops all aggression towards Hezbollah and Palestinians
2. Pulls troops out from the Gaza strip and Westbank entirely
3. And finally, Israel gives up Jerusalem and shrinks its borders to the original UN Partition Plan in 1947
Now can you say to me, everyone else in PDD, and to yourself, with an honest heart:
"The violence will stop"
This is assuming you WANT peace in the region.
Would you really believe it yourself if you said it? |
People hate Israel for different reasons than people hate US for. Israel dosent force its values and culture on Muslims, they never force their system of governance on Muslim countries. The sole reason people detest Israel is because of its occupation of territories; and proxy control over lives of people living in these occupied territories.
If Israel apologises, give them back their land, their rights and their freedom; these people will view Israel as a changed nation.
If Israel gives up Jerusalem than I seriously think this violence will stop. Violence will stop against Israel not US.
Any such plan should be backed up by financial assistance (from Israel) to Palestine until it rebuilds its economy and generates jobs.
I bet this was the same question colonial countries asked themselves before giving away slavery and colonisation of countries. Will these people still respect us and forgive us after what we did to them? |
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