Originally posted by Lebezniatnikov
You're thinking of the Illinois State Senate, not the US Senate. Obama was there for like 7 years. So you actually don't know that about him at all.
You're right... I was thinking about the state senate. Thanks for the correction. At any rate, Krypton, funny you mentioned his vote on building the border fence, as if to say he's tough on immigration laws. You forgot to mention these:
Extend welfare and Medicaid to immigrants. (Jul 1998)
Voted YES on continuing federal funds for declared "sanctuary cities". (Mar 2008)
Voted NO on declaring English as the official language of the US government. (Jun 2007)
Voted YES on allowing illegal aliens to participate in Social Security. (May 2006)
Voted to provide funding for social services for noncitizens. (May 2006)
Rated 8% by USBC, indicating an open-border stance. (Dec 2006)
Your nominee is somebody based on identity politics, not on resume, not on experience, not on qualification... but you defend every single thing he does to the death. You have embraced him and accepted all of him on the basis of personality pretty much.
Q5echo
quote:
Originally posted by The17sss
You have embraced him and accepted all of him on the basis of personality pretty much.
more to the point, Lebez and others actually embrace a reasonable facsimile of someone whom they originally accepted on the basis of personality.
Barak Obama is a very different candidate from the one they fell in love with.
Lebezniatnikov
quote:
Originally posted by Q5echo
more to the point, Lebez and others actually embrace a reasonable facsimile of someone whom they originally accepted on the basis of personality.
Barak Obama is a very different candidate from the one they fell in love with.
I don't know why you insist that I think he's perfect. I support the guy because of where he stands on foreign policy, healthcare, and education just as much as for what he represents. He represents a departure from the current administration on all of the issues that I care most deeply about, so he's got my vote.
As I've said probably a hundred times, he wasn't even my first choice, but he's by far and away the best choice still in the race.
MisterOpus1
quote:
Originally posted by Lebezniatnikov
I don't know why you insist that I think he's perfect. I support the guy because of where he stands on foreign policy, healthcare, and education just as much as for what he represents. He represents a departure from the current administration on all of the issues that I care most deeply about, so he's got my vote.
As I've said probably a hundred times, he wasn't even my first choice, but he's by far and away the best choice still in the race.
My sentiments exactly.
shaolin_Z
quote:
Originally posted by Lebezniatnikov
I don't know why you insist that I think he's perfect. I support the guy because of where he stands on foreign policy, healthcare, and education just as much as for what he represents. He represents a departure from the current administration on all of the issues that I care most deeply about, so he's got my vote.
As I've said probably a hundred times, he wasn't even my first choice, but he's by far and away the best choice still in the race.
How is having the same wallstreet power brokers in your cabinet a departure from the norm in Washington?
Q5echo
quote:
Originally posted by Lebezniatnikov
I don't know why you insist that I think he's perfect. I support the guy because of where he stands on foreign policy, healthcare, and education just as much as for what he represents. He represents a departure from the current administration on all of the issues that I care most deeply about, so he's got my vote.
As I've said probably a hundred times, he wasn't even my first choice, but he's by far and away the best choice still in the race.
alright. my apologies. i take it back.
i've done the same thing.
Krypton
quote:
Originally posted by The17sss
You're right... I was thinking about the state senate. Thanks for the correction. At any rate, Krypton, funny you mentioned his vote on building the border fence, as if to say he's tough on immigration laws. You forgot to mention these:
Extend welfare and Medicaid to immigrants. (Jul 1998)
Voted YES on continuing federal funds for declared "sanctuary cities". (Mar 2008)
Voted NO on declaring English as the official language of the US government. (Jun 2007)
Voted YES on allowing illegal aliens to participate in Social Security. (May 2006)
Voted to provide funding for social services for noncitizens. (May 2006)
Rated 8% by USBC, indicating an open-border stance. (Dec 2006)
You can get picky all you want, but Obama represents the average Joe much better than McCain, and as for your questions..
quote:
I know that's what he says, but how is there any way to prove that he's "siding" with middle to lower class voters? Where is the voting record and evidence to suggest that's his way?
I have answered them satisfactorily. You can accept or reject it all you want. I'm not debating you to change your mind..
quote:
Your nominee is somebody based on identity politics, not on resume, not on experience, not on qualification... but you defend every single thing he does to the death. You have embraced him and accepted all of him on the basis of personality pretty much.
Obviously, as I pointed out, he has plenty of experience legislating, on several BI-PARTISAN initiatives, and still you call him inexperienced. I defend him because of so much bull going around about him. Either he's secretly Muslim, not experienced, or as our friend Goku says, wants hurricanes to ravage the country. What kind of garbage is that? Now I don't have a right to defend him? Gimme a break...I don't embrace him because of his personality. I support Obama because I think he is what this country needs for the next four years. I'm sorry none of you can accept that and desperately search your bag of tricks and tell me why I support the Dems. You guys don't know me, so stop trying to tell me why I believe this or that. The more you do this, the worse off your arguments are, if not already abominable right now...Dems wanting hurricanes...:haha:... what's next in your bag of tricks guys? Another grainy video of some drunk red neck who barely looks like Biden?:rolleyes:
Krypton
quote:
Originally posted by Lebezniatnikov
I don't know why you insist that I think he's perfect. I support the guy because of where he stands on foreign policy, healthcare, and education just as much as for what he represents. He represents a departure from the current administration on all of the issues that I care most deeply about, so he's got my vote.
As I've said probably a hundred times, he wasn't even my first choice, but he's by far and away the best choice still in the race.
Exactly, I don't think Obama is perfect. Nobody is ever perfect. But why I can't I support the guy if I think he's the best thing for America the next 4 years? Oh I forgot, it's because we're "far left"...:rolleyes:
The17sss
quote:
Originally posted by Krypton
You can get picky all you want, but Obama represents the average Joe much better than McCain, and as for your questions..
You seriously think Obama is bi-partisan? This is where the importance of my post from yesterday comes in where I said Obama voted with his party 97% of the time (factcheck.org). Does anyone know where this notion of Barack Obama as a great post-partisan healer arose? In his brief stroll across the political stage, he has never taken a risk by standing up to the vested interests of his party or the Chicago political machine. He has done nothing to press the unions, lawyers, abortion lobby, or any of the other struts in the Democratic Party for moderation or reform.
The only moderation Obama has ever demonstrated is with his rhetoric.
People are indeed unhappy with the poisonous partisanship that has infected Washington. But if they want someone who has tried, for better or worse, to lessen it, then their rational choice would be McCain, and not someone who has never had the nerve to stand up to his own party’s leadership.
I guess we'll have to do the usual and just agree to disagree on this one, Krypton :toocool:
Krypton
quote:
Originally posted by The17sss
You seriously think Obama is bi-partisan? This is where the importance of my post from yesterday comes in where I said Obama voted with his party 97% of the time (factcheck.org). Does anyone know where this notion of Barack Obama as a great post-partisan healer arose? In his brief stroll across the political stage, he has never taken a risk by standing up to the vested interests of his party or the Chicago political machine. He has done nothing to press the unions, lawyers, abortion lobby, or any of the other struts in the Democratic Party for moderation or reform.
The only moderation Obama has ever demonstrated is with his rhetoric.
People are indeed unhappy with the poisonous partisanship that has infected Washington. But if they want someone who has tried, for better or worse, to lessen it, then their rational choice would be McCain, and not someone who has never had the nerve to stand up to his own party’s leadership.
I guess we'll have to do the usual and just agree to disagree on this one, Krypton :toocool:
I didn't call him a bi-partisan healer. And what bloody politician DOESN'T vote with his party MOST OF THE TIME?? Huh? McCain voted with George W Bush 90% of the time. Some "maverick" he turns out to be...:rolleyes:
Obama belongs to a party for a very special reason. He agrees with the party platform, as do 99.99999% of politicians do when they belong to a party. At least he has shown the ability to work with the other party on several initiatives which I outlined very clearly.
And yes, agree to disagree..:gsmile:
The17sss
But.... eh. Obama is rated the most liberal member of the senate based on his voting record. McCain is definitely MORE bipartisan than Obama. Can you agree to that? pretty please?
Lebezniatnikov
quote:
Originally posted by The17sss
But.... eh. Obama is rated the most liberal member of the senate based on his voting record. McCain is definitely MORE bipartisan than Obama. Can you agree to that? pretty please?
Maybe he used to be back in 2002 or 2003. But in 2006 he voted with Bush 90% of the time, in 2007 95% of the time, and thusfar in 2008 100% of the time.
As for Obama's bipartisanship, I'd refer you to Chuck Hagel, Jack Reed, or Richard Lugar. I dare say you won't find a single Democrat (Lieberman doesn't count) who vouches the same for McCain.
Hell, Obama's even cooperated with Tom Coburn, one of the most conservative in the Senate:
quote:
3. Obama introduced two initiatives bearing his name: "Lugar–Obama," which expanded the Nunn–Lugar cooperative threat reduction concept to conventional weapons and the "Coburn–Obama Transparency Act," which authorized the establishment of www.USAspending.gov, a web search engine.
