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Mccain-Palin 08! (pg. 30)
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| The17sss |
| quote: | Originally posted by Clovis
High gas prices, lower or stagnant wages, layoffs, higher unemployment, higher health care costs, cost of living going up.
It might not matter for people like you and me, but for the people lower on the ladder it has meant everything the past few years. |
Yeah man I get that. I'm just saying that for as much as we hear about it on a daily basis, as depressing as it's being made to sound, I am still yet to know or know about an actual person/family who's life has gone down the ter. Maybe you do, I don't know. Seems like more anecdotal and I think most people who have had to make small changes have adapted accordingly |
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| Zild |
| quote: | Originally posted by The17sss
I'm not saying that... it's just the choice of words you use. Maybe your definition of "suffering" is different than mine. But if a family can't go out to eat 3 or 4 times a year, or has to miss a vacation one summer because the budget is tight, I don't consider that to be suffering.
The bulk of the middle class people who are dealing with major problems, like possible foreclosures on their house, put themselves in the situation to begin with. Banks were giving out mortgages like candy with barely any approval required and no money down... people knew they would have a hard time paying each month but were so desperate to have their "dream home" that they made stupid choices. We shouldn't have to bail them out... let them learn their lessons. I have no sympathy for people who knowingly choose to live beyond their means and then lose their house. |
You're being retarded. Most people I know live paycheck to paycheck and struggle to make ends meet. And no they don't live in a dream home. |
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| Q5echo |
| quote: | Originally posted by Lebezniatnikov
if you can't win on issues, make a joke about the other guy. |
it's Biden ffs. |
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| Krypton |
| quote: | Originally posted by The17sss
Yeah man I get that. I'm just saying that for as much as we hear about it on a daily basis, as depressing as it's being made to sound, I am still yet to know or know about an actual person/family who's life has gone down the ter. Maybe you do, I don't know. Seems like more anecdotal and I think most people who have had to make small changes have adapted accordingly |
Well, let's look at some definitive data. Unemployment is at a 5 year high. Inflation on fuel is still greater than 100-200% since 2004. Imagine being a private truck operator. They regularly pay $1000 just to fill up. Again we come back to war. Our government has chosen to go to war. And to stifle dissent, we have our "guns and butter" attitude about the economy. No no no, you can't have your cake and eat it too. To pay for this war, the government borrows from foreign countries like China, and prints the bills. The Republicans talk about tax cuts, even when while we're in the middle of two occupations fighting two different insurgencies. How the hell are they going to cut taxes AND go to war? Explain that to me 17sss. I'll tell you what's going to happen. We will be covertly taxed by inflation, and actually, it's already been happening. How does fuel inflation rise without the proportional rise in demand? Is it any wonder why the dollar has fallen for the last several years? They are inflating the currency to pay for the war. It's a no brainer. So, we are being taxed, just not by the IRS. Everytime a Republican talks about tax cuts, I don't believe a word of it. "Tax cuts" are offset by inflation. And of course, it's the bottom half of the income bracket that is affected by it the most.
I also believe the aggression towards Iran is not even about their nuclear ambitions, because after all, the US nor Israel have any evidence for a nuclear weapons program...This is about maintaining the dollar hegemony. Iran wants to sell their oil for euros instead of dollars. If demand for the dollar as the reserve currency collapses, the US economy is done. Bankrupted. We are probably the only country in the world who can print the dollars like we can because demand is so high for the currency. Venezuela, Iran, and even pre-2003 Iraq want(ed) to price their oil in euros. So in my opinion, the Republicans must go to war because if they don't, their inflate and spend policy will be the end of them. Repubs like to hark on Dems as a "tax and spend" party. Well, the Republicans are the "inflate and spend" party. WHat's the damned difference? |
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| LatinLover |
I dont know if im just rutheless without any emotions but I really dont feel sorry for those people that are losing their homes. I see it this way, many people started buying homes like crazy. Most of these people obtained bad loans and are in this situation of their homes being foreclosed. I mean, they brought up upon themselves... they jumped into the bandwagon with all the buyers, and just because at the time you could be easily approved to obtain a loan, they went out and got one and now are in this situation.
Im from south florida, foreclosures are in the rise like crazy. This is a problem created by borrowers and lenders. Borrowers are losing their homes and lenders are getting impacted by the losses of these loans. Its a fair game. I mean you have to let the market fix itself from this problem. I dont like the fact that the govt is coming out to bail out both borrowers and lenders with tax payer money. These people must be held accountible for their own actions.
What I do want from out govt is to become energy independence and to provide affordable health care to all americans. This is were they must step up to the plate. |
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| Krypton |
| quote: | Originally posted by LatinLover
I dont know if im just rutheless without any emotions but I really dont feel sorry for those people that are losing their homes. I see it this way, many people started buying homes like crazy. Most of these people obtained bad loans and are in this situation of their homes being foreclosed. I mean, they brought up upon themselves... they jumped into the bandwagon with all the buyers, and just because at the time you could be easily approved to obtain a loan, they went out and got one and now are in this situation.
Im from south florida, foreclosures are in the rise like crazy. This is a problem created by borrowers and lenders. Borrowers are losing their homes and lenders are getting impacted by the losses of these loans. Its a fair game. I mean you have to let the market fix itself from this problem. I dont like the fact that the govt is coming out to bail out both borrowers and lenders with tax payer money. These people must be held accountible for their own actions.
What I do want from out govt is to become energy independence and to provide affordable health care to all americans. This is were they must step up to the plate. |
While borrowers may have some responsibility, it is the lender's who are supposed to practice "due diligence" in providing loans to those who can pay them back. I worked in the lending department of a credit union...we used to make fun of people whose credit was horrible but yet, they were asking us for a home equity or mortgage. B/c we were non-profit, we had strict guidelines to follow in who we could make a loan to. The money is the lenders. THey are supposed to invest it wisely.
It's like me putting money into a stock expecting it to rise, but instead it plummets. Am I supposed to blame the stock for my loss, or am I supposed to blame myself for making a bad investment. The same goes for the lenders. They deserve their troubles because they made bad investments. I don't think anyone can blame the borrowers for the lenders own mistakes. THe lenders had available to them credit ratings, appraisals, IRS income tax forms, etc etc at their disposal. Instead they ignored it all and just gave loans to anyone who asked for one. THey deserve the hurt. |
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| The17sss |
| quote: | Originally posted by Krypton
Well, let's look at some definitive data. Unemployment is at a 5 year high. Inflation on fuel is still greater than 100-200% since 2004. Imagine being a private truck operator. They regularly pay $1000 just to fill up. Again we come back to war. Our government has chosen to go to war. And to stifle dissent, we have our "guns and butter" attitude about the economy. No no no, you can't have your cake and eat it too. To pay for this war, the government borrows from foreign countries like China, and prints the bills. The Republicans talk about tax cuts, even when while we're in the middle of two occupations fighting two different insurgencies. How the hell are they going to cut taxes AND go to war? Explain that to me 17sss. I'll tell you what's going to happen. We will be covertly taxed by inflation, and actually, it's already been happening. How does fuel inflation rise without the proportional rise in demand? Is it any wonder why the dollar has fallen for the last several years? They are inflating the currency to pay for the war. It's a no brainer. So, we are being taxed, just not by the IRS. Everytime a Republican talks about tax cuts, I don't believe a word of it. "Tax cuts" are offset by inflation. And of course, it's the bottom half of the income bracket that is affected by it the most.
I also believe the aggression towards Iran is not even about their nuclear ambitions, because after all, the US nor Israel have any evidence for a nuclear weapons program...This is about maintaining the dollar hegemony. Iran wants to sell their oil for euros instead of dollars. If demand for the dollar as the reserve currency collapses, the US economy is done. Bankrupted. We are probably the only country in the world who can print the dollars like we can because demand is so high for the currency. Venezuela, Iran, and even pre-2003 Iraq want(ed) to price their oil in euros. So in my opinion, the Republicans must go to war because if they don't, their inflate and spend policy will be the end of them. Repubs like to hark on Dems as a "tax and spend" party. Well, the Republicans are the "inflate and spend" party. WHat's the damned difference? |
LOL... dude take it easy. Where did this emotional rant come from? War or not, republican or democrat, it doesn't change the fact that most people should be responsible for acquiring bank loans they knew they couldn't afford. . If Iraq didn't exist, they still would have a hard time paying back a loan that was bigger than they could afford. |
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| LatinLover |
| quote: | Originally posted by Krypton
While borrowers may have some responsibility, it is the lender's who are supposed to practice "due diligence" in providing loans to those who can pay them back. I worked in the lending department of a credit union...we used to make fun of people whose credit was horrible but yet, they were asking us for a home equity or mortgage. B/c we were non-profit, we had strict guidelines to follow in who we could make a loan to. The money is the lenders. THey are supposed to invest it wisely.
It's like me putting money into a stock expecting it to rise, but instead it plummets. Am I supposed to blame the stock for my loss, or am I supposed to blame myself for making a bad investment. The same goes for the lenders. They deserve their troubles because they made bad investments. I don't think anyone can blame the borrowers for the lenders own mistakes. THe lenders had available to them credit ratings, appraisals, IRS income tax forms, etc etc at their disposal. Instead they ignored it all and just gave loans to anyone who asked for one. THey deserve the hurt. |
Its a fair game. Lenders and Borrowers lose. Listen, If I had a bad credit or if my income isnt sufficient to pay a mortage and provide mantainance to a house. Why the fcuk would I go out trying to obtain a loan for a home? :rolleyes: Thats a no brainer! Most of the people that are facing foreclosure are either 1. Have bad credit or 2. Their income isnt sufficient to provide to pay the bills
simple as that! Dont get me wrong, Im not putting all the burden on the borrowers, banks and brokers are on the list for their unethical practices. But its a fair game aint it? Stupid people that couldnt afford a home went out like idiots to buy a home. So dont come with the BS that lenders are to blame for the whole problem. This is a 50-50 problem.
Edit: Borrowers bought something that they couldnt pay for in the long run. Nobody put a gun to their head to obtain a bad loan. |
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| Krypton |
| quote: | Originally posted by The17sss
LOL... dude take it easy. Where did this emotional rant come from? War or not, republican or democrat, it doesn't change the fact that most people should be responsible for acquiring bank loans they knew they couldn't afford. . If Iraq didn't exist, they still would have a hard time paying back a loan that was bigger than they could afford. |
Hangover. If money wasn't so easy to obtain, lenders probably would not have taken the risks they took. Mr. Greenspan had the Fed rate at 1% in 2003-2004!! Inflation inflation inflation. Got to pay for the war somehow, if its not going to be taxes. |
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| The17sss |
| quote: | Originally posted by LatinLover
Stupid people that couldnt afford a home went out like idiots to buy a home. So dont come with the BS that lenders are to blame for the whole problem. This is a 50-50 problem.
Edit: Borrowers bought something that they couldnt pay for in the long run. Nobody put a gun to their head to obtain a bad loan. |
Exactly... I'm completely against the idea of these ing government bailouts for stuff like this because A) it doesn't teach the person any responsibility to deal with the consequences of their poor choices, and B) it adds to the creation of the dependant nanny state. |
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| Lebezniatnikov |
| quote: | Originally posted by The17sss
Yeah man I get that. I'm just saying that for as much as we hear about it on a daily basis, as depressing as it's being made to sound, I am still yet to know or know about an actual person/family who's life has gone down the ter. Maybe you do, I don't know. Seems like more anecdotal and I think most people who have had to make small changes have adapted accordingly |
You must run in well-off crowds. I know quite a few. |
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| The17sss |
| quote: | Originally posted by Krypton
Hangover. If money wasn't so easy to obtain, lenders probably would not have taken the risks they took. Mr. Greenspan had the Fed rate at 1% in 2003-2004!! Inflation inflation inflation. Got to pay for the war somehow, if its not going to be taxes. |
You gotta put some of that burden on the people obtaining the loans too man... they weren't smart/respsonible with their choices. Banks are now reaping what they sewed because a lot of people are saying " it, let the house foreclose and the bank deal with it... i'd rather have bad credit for 7 years." |
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