Originally posted by Shakka
Do you worship at the altar of Andrew Sullivan? Have you ever read anything by someone else? Not that there's anything wrong with him, it just seems that everything you post comes primarily from one source. Is he some sort of authority on all things political? Are no other dissenting opinions as meaningful as his?
I'll read your posts later, I've been in a meeting all day.
I've quoted him several times because he is a former conservative (and 2000 McCain supporter) - I think he is uniquely situated to give credible criticism that can't be easily countered with "but he's a liberal elitist!!!!" I could quote David Frum or a Mark Halperin or a number of other conservatives who can't stand the Palin pick as well, but I feel that Sullivan is a better writer.
In any case, I look forward to the day when you actually post something substantive in this thread instead of deflections.
flavdave
quote:
Originally posted by LazFX
Damn ..... GOP is going Low
McCain criticizes Obama vote on sex ed legislation
McCain ad criticizes Obama vote on sex ed in Illinois, Obama camp calls claim 'shameful'
CHRISTOPHER WILLS
AP News
Sep 09, 2008 21:41 EST
Republican John McCain's presidential campaign released a new television ad Tuesday that says Democratic rival Barack Obama is bad for families because he supports sex education for kindergarteners. Obama's campaign called the ad a "shameful" distortion.
The ad says Obama has a weak record on education and that his only accomplishment was legislation to teach sex education to kindergarteners.
"Learning about sex before learning to read?" the ad says. "Barack Obama. Wrong on education. Wrong for your family."
But the legislation was not Obama's, it never became law and it would have required age-appropriate information in schools. Obama has said that means warning young children about sexual predators and explaining concepts like "good touch and bad touch."
"It is shameful and downright perverse for the McCain campaign to use a bill that was written to protect young children from sexual predators as a recycled and discredited political attack against a father of two young girls," Obama spokesman Bill Burton said in a statement.
Burton noted that in a recent interview with Time magazine, McCain refused to define 'honor.' "Now we know why," Burton said.
The McCain campaign released the ad hours after Obama gave a speech on education and offered proposals normally more popular with Republicans. Obama promised to double funding for charter schools, pay teachers based on performance and replace those who aren't up to the job.
As a state senator in Illinois, Obama voted for the sex education bill in committee in 2003, but he was not a sponsor.
The measure said schools offering sex education must include medically accurate information appropriate to the age of the students. The lessons were to cover the consequences of unprotected sex, the effects of various forms of contraception and the option of abstinence.
It also would have allowed parents to pull their children from sex education classes if they wished.
The full state Senate never voted on the bill.
The following year when Obama ran for the U.S. Senate, Republican Alan Keyes tried to make an issue of the sex-education vote, but it never gained traction with Illinois voters. Obama defended the idea of giving kindergarten pupils some basic information — that babies aren't brought by a stork, for instance — but said those decisions should be left to local school officials and parents.
McCain's ad is to air in parts of Pennsylvania, Minnesota, Iowa, Michigan, Ohio, Missouri and Wisconsin, as well as on the Discovery channel.
Yeah, that's really ed up. Sad thing is, people will believe McCain's perversion of the truth.
The17sss
Say it with me... EAGLETON
Lebezniatnikov
Yet again, we have a post by a McCain supporter that deflects criticism of his own candidate on to innocuous comments made by the other side.
Are you going to man up and defend your candidate or continue to wage a campaign of slander against everyone else?
The17sss
quote:
Originally posted by Lebezniatnikov
Yet again, we have a post by a McCain supporter that deflects criticism of his own candidate on to innocuous comments made by the other side.
Are you going to man up and defend your candidate or continue to wage a campaign of slander against everyone else?
Campaigns of slander.... hmmm, I don't know let me check with Sara Palin on how to weather a storm like that. What exactly are you asking me to defend McCain on? Something in particular or just in general... I'm asking in total seriousness beause I'm not sure if you're being specific or not. But still, I've said many times in many posts that I do not agree with McCain all the way... I probably disagree with 35-40% of his policy. I'm definitely not a staunch McCain guy. I'm just more of a super anti Obama guy.
Dj Smitty20
quote:
Originally posted by Shakka
Bill Clinton hails from Arkansas...come on. Think about it. Arkansas.
he was also educated at the most prestigious school in the world.
Palin got her degree...where? The University of Potatoes...I mean Idaho?:rolleyes:
Dj Smitty20
quote:
Originally posted by The17sss
Campaigns of slander.... hmmm, I don't know let me check with Sara Palin on how to weather a storm like that. What exactly are you asking me to defend McCain on? Something in particular or just in general... I'm asking in total seriousness beause I'm not sure if you're being specific or not. But still, I've said many times in many posts that I do not agree with McCain all the way... I probably disagree with 35-40% of his policy. I'm definitely not a staunch McCain guy. I'm just more of a super anti Obama guy.
because he's black right? come on, just admit it.
Race is a bigger issue in this election than people are giving it credence. It won't be talked about that much, because it's America and there is nothing wrong in American society.
Shakka
quote:
Originally posted by Dj Smitty20
he was also educated at the most prestigious school in the world.
Palin got her degree...where? The University of Potatoes...I mean Idaho?:rolleyes:
And Bush went to Yale with a Harvard MBA. Where are you going with this? That there's an exception to every rule?
Lebezniatnikov
quote:
Originally posted by The17sss
. What exactly are you asking me to defend McCain on? Something in particular or just in general... I'm asking in total seriousness beause I'm not sure if you're being specific or not.
quote:
Originally posted by Lebezniatnikov
Sarah Palin hasn't said a single thing about her record that is true. And she keeps on repeating the same lies over and over again. I'll admit that Biden and Obama are wrong more than they should be, but nothing I have ever seen even remotely compares with Sarah Palin's inability to say anything truthful.
What's very telling is that you deflect any criticism of Palin by projecting criticisms, similar or otherwise, back onto the Democrats. But in reality, you have not repudiated or defended a single thing about Palin's record.
So, Shakka, the money's on the table.
Why does Sarah Palin deserve my vote for Vice President of the United States? How do I know I can trust her to protect and preserve the Constitution of the United States? If she says she is a reformer, what has she reformed? Has she ever gone on the record with an opinion about American foreign policy that doesn't relate to building more pipelines in Alaska? Does it not make you nervous that a major candidate for executive office has been hiding from the press until favorable interview terms could be agreed to? What does it say about her as a candidate that the only time she speaks about her record as governor and mayor is to lie about the bridge to nowhere, selling her plane on ebay (which she didn't), and being a fiscal conservative (which she assuredly was not)? Furthermore, what does it say about McCain that he would choose someone to be Vice President - a heartbeat away from the Oval Office - without even giving her the semblance of a thorough vetting job? Is this indicative of the decision-making strategy he would use as President? Does he not have a responsibility to the American people, when making decisions of extreme national importance, to do his homework beforehand? Is it acceptable for a President to shoot from the hip and make decisions from the gut with no evidence to support said decision? Do we want someone who cares not one iota about the national defense of this country should something happen to him to have his hand on the nuclear football?
As Andrew Sullivan says:
quote:
He does not have the minimal public integrity to be president of the United States.
Game this all you want; distort it all you want; bamboozle the morons at cable news all you want; win however many news cycles you want.
This claim is absurd on its face, like the Palin nomination to begin with. Absurd. And you can now tell who on the right has even a scintilla of intellectual honesty. That's all this episode is about : another tail-spin in the death throes of the Republican party.
Dollars to donuts, you're not able to answer any of the questions laid out above without deflecting my criticism to Obama, Biden, or some Democratic congressman.
Dj Smitty20
quote:
Originally posted by Shakka
And Bush went to Yale with a Harvard MBA. Where are you going with this? That there's an exception to every rule?
deflect deflect deflect!
Let's pull Bush's transcript while we're at it though.;)
Lebezniatnikov
Going national in 5... 4... 3... 2...
Shakka
quote:
Originally posted by Lebezniatnikov
I've quoted him several times because he is a former conservative (and 2000 McCain supporter) - I think he is uniquely situated to give credible criticism that can't be easily countered with "but he's a liberal elitist!!!!" I could quote David Frum or a Mark Halperin or a number of other conservatives who can't stand the Palin pick as well, but I feel that Sullivan is a better writer.
In any case, I look forward to the day when you actually post something substantive in this thread instead of deflections.
Don't call it deflection, it was a legitimate question. It's also ok to have your own opinions instead of relying solely on the output of others' opinions as representative of your own. Fair enough qualification of the guy I guess, though he's also a gay non-U.S. citizen if I'm not mistaken, so his point of view is possibly nicely objective but also quite likely not particularly aligned with any particular school of thought prevalent in the states. You say he hits it square on the head, but you're saying that in the context that you want to believe all of his opinions are fact, when they are just second hand opinions. Are some of them accurate? Probably. Are they the final word? Certainly not.
Earlier in this thread I said this:
quote:
I don't like being thrown to one side or another, but I really don't like Biden and I certainly don't trust Obama, or think that he is adequately qualified for the position he seeks at this point.
I am not an ardent McCain/Palin supporter, but as the rhetoric picks up from both sides it seems inevitable that we become more polarized. I don't trust Obama. I take legitimate issue with some of his associations and dealings with the likes of Jeremiah Wright and Bill Ayers. I do believe that Palin does have real executive experience, as much as some would like to try to diminish it as insignificant. She may not be a foreign policy ace, but McCain has more experience here than any other candidate in the running. McCain is weak on economic issues, by his own admission. In this regard, I think that Palin seems like a fairly good compliment to him as she has a good grasp of energy issues (another crucial issue) and is definitely in touch with mainstream America given her dual role as a mother of 5 dealing with plenty of the same issues that plenty of others struggle with.
There's no question Obama is smooth, but I do not trust the guy. He has plenty of shady dealings that have been well documented. If Palin doesn't have the experience to be VP, I certainly don't think Obama is well qualified to be the POTUS. As far as her being a creationist or whatever, what does Obama believe? He goes to church, there was plenty of prayer at the DNC--what are these people, hypocrites? How many presidents and VPs in the history of this country have creationist viewpoints? Is this really a valid criticism or is it only relevant here and now all of the sudden? I'm sorry, but I don't follow the righteous indignation going on with this criticism.
Biden has said about Obama that POTUS is not about on-the-job training. If that case is to hold for both sides, I'd rather the teacher be the POTUS and the understudy be the VP instead of the other way around. McCain could die of a heart-attack tomorrow and Obama could get hit by a bus. If we make all of our decisions based on that kind of outlook we'll end up with a robot for president and I am not an Al Gore fan either.
