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The NO on Prop 8 thread.... (pg. 25)
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| djjoshuaallen |
| quote: | Originally posted by gehzumteufel
It is kinda hard to give it less attention when the Mormon church alone is the single largest sponsor of the yes on 8 campaign. |
you really do hate the mormon church dont you.:D
Prop 8 is more about linguistics then affording rights to gay couples. If it were really a rights issue, why not isolate the rights that are afforded to a married couple that are not given to those in a civil union and sort that out? That way both parties are happy. I am still not clear what those rights are, all i have heard is a small tax break on health care programs distributed by employers.
NO on 8 has misled you that this is about getting equal rights, which it isnt really. Other then the right to get "married" which is just a term and thus a matter of linguistics. Its my understanding that the underlying issue here is its about gaining power for the gay community, in order to promote their way of life in such places as schools, public and private, churches, etc. No on 8 should have focused on the fact that this is amending the constitution, which i think many americans are often hesitant to do. I think it would have failed if they went a different direction with it. |
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| gehzumteufel |
| quote: | Originally posted by djjoshuaallen
you really do hate the mormon church dont you.:D |
I grew up Mormon. I know too much about the way they work. Knowing this and seeing this, and being able to speak on behalf as a former member makes me hate them? I don't hate them. My best friends family is Mormon and so are others I know. That is their prerogative. I know I may come off that way, but people are really quite oblivious to how the church does push stuff like this.
| quote: | | NO on 8 has misled you that this is about getting equal rights, which it isnt really. Other then the right to get "married" which is just a term and thus a matter of linguistics. Its my understanding that the underlying issue here is its about gaining power for the gay community, in order to promote their way of life in such places as schools, public and private, churches, etc. No on 8 should have focused on the fact that this is amending the constitution, which i think many americans are often hesitant to do. I think it would have failed if they went a different direction with it. |
As my friend put it so eloquently, If you grant a right to one group, you must grant the same right equally to all groups regardless of any laws granting "equal" rights. |
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| pnutttty |
| quote: | Originally posted by djjoshuaallen
NO on 8 has misled you that this is about getting equal rights, which it isnt really. Other then the right to get "married" which is just a term and thus a matter of linguistics. Its my understanding that the underlying issue here is its about gaining power for the gay community, in order to promote their way of life in such places as schools, public and private, churches, etc. No on 8 should have focused on the fact that this is amending the constitution, which i think many americans are often hesitant to do. I think it would have failed if they went a different direction with it. |
oh wow. you have it all wrong. you must be listening to your church because this has nothing to do with churchs/schools/etc...this has everything to do a minority group wanting equality.
more importantly, as you are not directly affected by this, it seems like YOU are the one having the power issue. |
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| |Thrax| |
Unfortunately, this shows that some people still have strong morals about their views on marriage.
Would you consider those people "sick s", miguided,ignorant or true to their views?
Of course many people want equality, I supported NO on 8.
How many groups/religion/etc supported YES vs. NO?
There was a large hispanic push for "YES"
These people are old school and their ideas should be put out to pasture. Like above though, there are still lots of old people. |
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| selfEvolution |
The following is a note from Lorri L. Jean, head of the Gay & Lesbian Center in Los Angeles:
Rally Tonight!!
Please join us tonight at 7 p.m. for a rally in West Hollywood on San Vicente Blvd, between Melrose Ave. and Santa Monica Blvd.
Sadly, fueled by misinformation, distortions and lies, millions of voters went to the polls yesterday and said YES to bigotry, YES to discrimination, YES to second-class status for same-sex couples.
As of this morning, more people had voted for Proposition 8 than against it. The Secretary of State’s office has yet to call the race as millions of votes remain to be counted. Thus, the No on 8 Campaign is not calling the race.
While we do not know what the exact margin will be, we do know that millions of people voted to eliminate the fundamental rights of their neighbors, colleagues, families and friends.
Yesterday will be judged as a shameful chapter in the history of our state and our nation. While hope overcame fear in the Presidential election, fear reigned supreme for millions of California voters.
The Yes campaign engaged in the most immoral and reprehensible tactics imaginable. They took $40 million dollars--most of it funded by Mormons at the direction of their Church President--and subjected people in our state to a constant barrage of lies and distortions. The Mormon Church was not alone, however, organizations like Focus on the Family, the Knights of Columbus, and the American Family Association also supported this hateful initiative.
They couldn’t win with the truth so they resorted to something far more sinister. They even stooped so low as to distribute a campaign mailer fraudulently suggesting that President-elect Obama supported their efforts, when they knew for a fact that he had come out in opposition to Proposition 8.
That is clearly the only way these anti-gay extremists could advance their agenda of discrimination and exclusion. Most fair-minded people find such tactics and concepts absolutely repugnant and more would have voted “no” were it not for such a deceptive campaign of scare tactics and lies.
I am angry and enormously sad. And I’ll have more to say once the No on 8 Campaign calls this race. For now, our legal eagles have filed suit against Proposition 8, which should never have been on the ballot in the first place.
Amidst all the emotions I am feeling today, I am taking heart in the fact that no matter the result of this particular battle, the war is far from over. Of one thing I am certain, the freedom to marry will one day be the law of the land. Our success is inevitable in time. We will work ceaselessly to see that this day comes as soon as humanly possible. |
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| in2muzikk |
Not to mention that Prop 8 was the most expensive measure in history, the $80M spent to push for and defend against discrimination could have cured a disease or fed a small country for a year!
It's sickening, really...last time I checked we were all part of the Human race! |
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| gehzumteufel |
| Don: One thing I always forget to bring up that I just remembered. The tax benefit thing. Is that on a state or national level? If national, that is not something that prop 8 would have addressed. |
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| in2muzikk |
| National, based on DOMA passed by Clinton in 1996, so would need to be addressed at the federal level...although at the federal level, this is deemed an issue for the states! |
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| gehzumteufel |
| quote: | Originally posted by in2muzikk
National, based on DOMA passed by Clinton in 1996, so would need to be addressed at the federal level...although at the federal level, this is deemed an issue for the states! |
It isn't deemed a state issue since it has already been defined.
This is unfortunate though no matter what. |
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| CaptKirk |
| quote: | Originally posted by djjoshuaallen
you really do hate the mormon church dont you.:D
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| selfEvolution |
It is sad what so-called "Christians" will do when some of their own children are getting pregnant out of wedlock (Sarah Palin's)or catching HIV/AIDS because they are under the delusion that it's a "gay disease". Worldwide the majority of carriers have always been heterosexual.
But we who believe in equality, fairness and keeping mob rule from legislating our private lives must focus on the good progress we are making and work on the bad. Democrats have taken the White House, the Senate and Congress for many good reasons, and we must see the glass as half full instead of half empty while still working to fill it.
For the fist time in history, a President mentioned "Gay" in an acceptance speech and in terms of being American. Obama correctly asserted that we are neither Red or Blue Americans, neither black nor white Americans, neither straight or gay Americans. To put it a bit differently, we are all simply humans first, second and third - meaning our differences come in a distant, metaphorical fourth compared to our many similarities.
We all have the same emotions and fears, it's only our experiences and biology that make us deal with such feelings in different ways. Above that, we are simply humans and all part of the global family. If we go far back enough, we are all related and I've been saying this since childhood. Recently DNA and breakthroughs in genetics have confirmed that this is biologically true. |
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| R!CH |
| if jesus was alive today there's one thing he wouldn't be: a christian. |
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