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The NO on Prop 8 thread.... (pg. 32)
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| gehzumteufel |
| quote: | Originally posted by system-7
This passage is a recap of the old testament law, aka 10 commandments.
you might ask, how is that? the 10 commandments covers two types sins that are:
1. Toward God, in which we should:
"30 Love the Lord your God with all your heart and wth all your soul and with all your mind and with all your strength."
2. Toward your neighbor
"31 The second is this: 'Love your neighbor as yourself."
The reason that loving the Lord 1st is the greatest commandment is because in accomplishing this, we can go onto fullfilling the second: loving your neighbor as yourself
(sometimes I wanna kill my neighbor, especially when they like to party til 5am while my daughter tries to sleep)
but now lets go into detail about the 10 commandments and how they relate to loving God and loving thy neighbor. continued... |
So then in your own words, you are sinning as you are not loving gay people as yourself. Allowing them to marry, each other in the ass, adopt kids, be foster parents, etc. So therefore, you have called yourself a hypocrite also. |
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| gehzumteufel |
| quote: | Originally posted by system-7
I dare you to read Levitcus and go through law school, and deny that our US law don't mirrors that book. |
While you can draw parallels between the two, that is for the reason being that we have laws like no murder for a reason. It impedes upon someones right to pursue happiness. |
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| bas |
| Why is religion even being brought up in this debate in the first place? It was my understanding that religion and government shouldn't be mixing together at all. Separation of church & state and all that. |
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| gehzumteufel |
| quote: | Originally posted by bas
Why is religion even being brought up in this debate in the first place? It was my understanding that religion and government shouldn't be mixing together at all. Separation of church & state and all that. |
It shouldn't be, but that is their basis, and therefore you must beat them at their own game. |
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| system-7 |
| quote: | Originally posted by gehzumteufel
While you can draw parallels between the two, that is for the reason being that we have laws like no murder for a reason. It impedes upon someones right to pursue happiness. |
They have to be parallel, the Old law is to show us how sinful we are and how we can not attain perfection. The new law is the fulfillment by Christ. (dang, I said the C word) And how by through grace we establish perfection. But to establish perfection is a lifestyle that we must pursue until we die. That is challenging enough to make many run and hide. No one ever said it was gonna be easy. |
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| DJ RANN |
| quote: | Originally posted by system-7
[QUOTE]Originally posted by DJ RANN
Dude, you keep quoting scripture about this, but why are you quoting a book that was written from multi-generational whispers 300 years after the fact?
This bit is important - I don't have to respect your religion - at all - I just accept that it's there and don't disrespect it.
You need to do the same. The 10 commandments have nothing to do with US law, so there's no need to have this argument. It's a matter of society law, not religious scripture. [/QUO
I dare you to read Levitcus and go through law school, and deny that our US law don't mirrors that book. |
I have read most (not all) of leveticus. It's simply because murder is wrong and so is stealing etc. These are not religious positions, just moral, and I don't need the church to tell me what is right or wrong in my life or society as a whole.
People shouldn't say your church - it's disrespectful to your beliefs and it's purposefully hurtful to your way of life. But telling other people they cannot get married, in a non religious ceremony, is hurtful and disrespectful their way of life, which I'm sure you're book does not allow......
I dare you to read the age of reason or common sense by Thomas Paine and the God Delusion by Richard Dawkins. I actually think everone who has been brought up religious should read this just so at least they know the other side of the belief. |
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| gehzumteufel |
| quote: | Originally posted by system-7
They have to be parallel, the Old law is to show us how sinful we are and how we can not attain perfection. The new law is the fulfillment by Christ. (dang, I said the C word) And how by through grace we establish perfection. But to establish perfection is a lifestyle that we must pursue until we die. That is challenging enough to make many run and hide. No one ever said it was gonna be easy. |
You are thinking about it all wrong. They are parallel because of our RIGHT TO PURSUE HAPPINESS in our constitution. So it doesn't matter what your god says, it is about the impeding of that right upon someone else. If you impede upon that right, you are violating the constitution and it is therefore, illegal. |
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| gehzumteufel |
| quote: | Originally posted by DJ RANN
I have read most (not all) of leveticus. It's simply because murder is wrong and so is stealing etc. These are not religious positions, just moral, and I don't need the church to tell me what is right or wrong in my life or society as a whole.
People shouldn't say your church - it's disrespectful to your beliefs and it's purposefully hurtful to your way of life. But telling other people they cannot get married, in a non religious ceremony, is hurtful and disrespectful their way of life, which I'm sure you're book does not allow......
I dare you to read the age of reason or common sense by Thomas Paine and the God Delusion by Richard Dawkins. I actually think everone who has been brought up religious should read this just so at least they know the other side of the belief. |
Forget Leviticus, as he already explained his stance and what it means. I spelled it out for him. Here is the post I made.
| quote: | Originally posted by gehzumteufel
So then in your own words, you are sinning as you are not loving gay people as yourself. Allowing them to marry, each other in the ass, adopt kids, be foster parents, etc. So therefore, you have called yourself a hypocrite also. |
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| DJ RANN |
| quote: | Originally posted by system-7
They have to be parallel, the Old law is to show us how sinful we are and how we can not attain perfection. The new law is the fulfillment by Christ. (dang, I said the C word) And how by through grace we establish perfection. But to establish perfection is a lifestyle that we must pursue until we die. That is challenging enough to make many run and hide. No one ever said it was gonna be easy. |
Why are we automatically sinful? What did you do as a newborn baby that made you dedicate your the life before you to making it all right again?
See that's the hook. You're born wrong so you better make it right...
Please read the God Delusion. It's a very intelligent book that examines all religions, in great detail.
You will find that the Church of the Flying Spaghetti Monster is just as valid as Christianity. |
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| system-7 |
| quote: | Originally posted by DJ RANN
I have read most (not all) of leveticus. It's simply because murder is wrong and so is stealing etc. These are not religious positions, just moral, and I don't need the church to tell me what is right or wrong in my life or society as a whole.
People shouldn't say your church - it's disrespectful to your beliefs and it's purposefully hurtful to your way of life. But telling other people they cannot get married, in a non religious ceremony, is hurtful and disrespectful their way of life, which I'm sure you're book does not allow......
I dare you to read the age of reason or common sense by Thomas Paine and the God Delusion by Richard Dawkins. I actually think everone who has been brought up religious should read this just so at least they know the other side of the belief. |
I will take you up on that offer.. Lets see if thomas Paine and Richard Dawkins ideas can hold up for 2000 years. |
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| DJ RANN |
| quote: | Originally posted by gehzumteufel
You are thinking about it all wrong. They are parallel because of our RIGHT TO PURSUE HAPPINESS in our constitution. So it doesn't matter what your god says, it is about the impeding of that right upon someone else. If you impeded upon that right, you are violating the constitution and it is therefore, illegal. |
Yup, that's the main point and why the constitution has no mention of doing right by God or religion.
"Life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness" - the cornerstone of the declaration of independence. This is what US laws are based on, not religion.
In fact the reason the US was founded in this way was to get rid of the strong religious laws imposed on them by the British! |
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| gehzumteufel |
| quote: | Originally posted by DJ RANN
Yup, that's the main point and why the constitution has no mention of doing right by God or religion.
"Life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness" - the cornerstone of the declaration of independence. This is what US laws are based on, not religion.
In fact the reason the US was founded in this way was to get rid of the strong religious laws imposed on them by the British! |
Yep. :)
You notice he hasn't replied to my other post? |
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